Controversy over Used CPAP Equipment

[sleepguide]

Seems to be a fair amount of uncertainty over whether this is an issue. Can anyone resolve this once and for all for me?

A substantial marketplace is developing online for pre-owned CPAP masks and machines. Sites like craigslist and ebay offer used CPAP masks and machines at heavily reduced prices, giving many access to CPAP supplies they otherwise would not be able to afford. The benefits are undeniable, and lots of good has come from this marketplace. But I was recently talking to a good friend who is a bit of a germaphobe. You know the type --- the kind of guy who says "screw you" instead of "bless you" when you sneeze in his presence. But he raised an objection to the used CPAP equipment marketplace that I hadn't thought of, and couldn't quite rebut, at least not based on any facts at my own disposal. He thought there was a risk that Tuberculosis could be transmitted to a buyer of pre-owned CPAP equipment if the seller had contracted the disease. So I did a bit of investigation. There are a number of cleaning products for CPAP machines and masks on the market that a buyer would certainly be able to use. The Citrus II Wipes and the disinfectant Control III are among the most popular. However, my call to their manufacturers revealed that neither would kill tuberculosis. The Control III product is strong enough to kill HIV, but not strong enough to combat TB. Bleach was the solution suggested by one manufacturer. But as we all know, bleach would surely destroy the equipment.

So I raise the question not to alarm people who have benefited from pre-owned equipment, but rather to get some sort of confirmation that the chances are so slim to not even need to worry about it. Please give me the ammunition I need to rebut my friend's objection to the free and open exchange of pre-owned CPAP equipment. (http://www.sleepguide.com/profiles/blog ... s-and-cpap)

SleepGuide

[Cpapkid]

My suggestion? Make new friends--Seriously. I would not however, consider used masks, hoses, etc., but the Cpap machine itself? Sure--I have a used S7 Resmed--after all, all they are is a glorified fan (pushing air toward the user). I use Clorox Cleanup on my equipment--I know, I know--the fanatics are going to come after me saying it will ruin the equipment--well, it won't --been using it for 7 years and I haven't ruined anything yet. Just be sure to rinse thouroghly and air dry. You and your equipment will be fine. HOWEVER--CPAP machines MUST be recalibrated to your needs by your CME or doctor (5 minutes).

[Wulfman]

Seems to be a fair amount of uncertainty over whether this is an issue. Can anyone resolve this once and for all for me?

A substantial marketplace is developing online for pre-owned CPAP masks and machines. Sites like craigslist and ebay offer used CPAP masks and machines at heavily reduced prices, giving many access to CPAP supplies they otherwise would not be able to afford. The benefits are undeniable, and lots of good has come from this marketplace. But I was recently talking to a good friend who is a bit of a germaphobe. You know the type --- the kind of guy who says "screw you" instead of "bless you" when you sneeze in his presence. But he raised an objection to the used CPAP equipment marketplace that I hadn't thought of, and couldn't quite rebut, at least not based on any facts at my own disposal. He thought there was a risk that Tuberculosis could be transmitted to a buyer of pre-owned CPAP equipment if the seller had contracted the disease. So I did a bit of investigation. There are a number of cleaning products for CPAP machines and masks on the market that a buyer would certainly be able to use. The Citrus II Wipes and the disinfectant Control III are among the most popular. However, my call to their manufacturers revealed that neither would kill tuberculosis. The Control III product is strong enough to kill HIV, but not strong enough to combat TB. Bleach was the solution suggested by one manufacturer. But as we all know, bleach would surely destroy the equipment.

So I raise the question not to alarm people who have benefited from pre-owned equipment, but rather to get some sort of confirmation that the chances are so slim to not even need to worry about it. Please give me the ammunition I need to rebut my friend's objection to the free and open exchange of pre-owned CPAP equipment. (http://www.sleepguide.com/profiles/blog ... s-and-cpap)

SleepGuide

Nonsense. Your friend is needlessly paranoid. There's virtually no chance of the germs getting into or living in a CPAP machine and simple washing of a mask would adequately remove any POSSIBLE remaining germs (if they could even live that long).
The Internet is full of information about it.

http://www.cdc.gov/tb/faqs/default.htm

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/tuberculosis/DS00372

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuberculosis

From:
http://www.medicinenet.com/tuberculosis/article.htm

How does a person get TB?

A person can become infected with tuberculosis bacteria when he or she inhales minute particles of infected sputum from the air. The bacteria get into the air when someone who has a tuberculosis lung infection coughs, sneezes, shouts, or spits (which is common in some cultures). People who are nearby can then possibly breathe the bacteria into their lungs. You don't get TB by just touching the clothes or shaking the hands of someone who is infected. Tuberculosis is spread (transmitted) primarily from person to person by breathing infected air during close contact.



Den

[dsm]

If the machine was taking the air out of an infected persons lungs (rather than pumping air into them) and then passing that air through the inside of the machine, I would be very careful about who had the machine before. But as we all know the air comes through the back of the machine & into the sleeper & out the mask vents. The machine when on is always presenting a positive pressure down the hose.

But because the only contamination is going to be who touches the outside of the machine & germs have a sort of 'half-life' unless in a life sustaining medium, I am less concerned.

I am more worried about touching handrails in public places such as train stations & in public buildings & holding escalator handrails (should hear my wife on this subject ) - esp so when being a tourist

Your friend may be just a tad paranoid ?



DSM

[Goofproof]

Who can say the people that make the parts of the machines aren't dieing from TB or the sellers and packagers. I am over 60 and have never been neat someone with TB, that I know of. The new masks are made in China, a higher TB rate might be there than here. On my list of worries TB is pretty low. Jim

[goose]

I would have to agree that the chances of contraction of TB are slim and none.....
Masks are routinely cleaned using control III or other solutions in sleep centers all over the country - in fact when I had my titration I couldn't try a mask I wanted because the size I needed wasn't dry from it's cleaning.....

I can totally agree with DSM that handrails, doorknobs, benches and other public things are far more likely to infect you with something than a used machine or mask. (My wife is an ER RN so I hear the lecture constantly!!!! Hear ya Doug, but I guess they're looking after our well being, so......as much as I whine, I wash my hands ).

I think your friend needs to be schooled in microbiology and immunology......I suppose you could remind him that a similar obsession helped kill Howard Hughes......A few germs can boost the immune system......
Sheesh......

cheers
goose

[OldLincoln]

Interesting subject. I heard a report just yesterday about collecting germs from everyday objects.
1. The card machine in just about everywhere you shop. People are either using the stylus or punching keys and lots of people in a short amount of time. The answer is to carry a pen with a cap that you can use as a stylus (not the ink end) to punch buttons and sign, etc.

2. The outside handle of the restroom is 8 times as germy as the inside handle. Even if you immediately wash your hands you have been exposed.

I don't recall others at the moment but they all made sense.

[sleepguide]

no doubt he's a paranoid guy. i just wanted to be able to come back at him with something other than "i think it'll be fine".

[Bert_Mathews]

no doubt he's a paranoid guy. i just wanted to be able to come back at him with something other than "i think it'll be fine".

I suggest you start calling him "Howard Hughes II" & ask HOW he is able to get around in this WORLD with out living in a BUBBLE?
If he doesn't understand being called "Howard Hughes II" try "CHICKEN LITTLE"?????

BERT

[tuna]

no doubt he's a paranoid guy. i just wanted to be able to come back at him with something other than "i think it'll be fine".

I suggest you start calling him "Howard Hughes II" & ask HOW he is able to get around in this WORLD with out living in a BUBBLE?
If he doesn't understand being called "Howard Hughes II" try "CHICKEN LITTLE"?????

BERT

He has been watching the series "Monk" way too much!

[tomjax]

Few issues evoke responses as germophobia.
There are still TV shows that show bacteria growing in our kitchen and everywhere else.
Somehow there are those who like the Howard Hughes who react obsessively as if this is something to be feared and avoided.
We obsessively have rituals to clean our equipment with no clear reasons to do so.
All events in the universe are determined by probability and outcome.
Every thing we do from walking down our stairs or driving to work or going into our yard has a probability of fatal outcomes.
There is no such thing as a zero probability of living thru each of these as well as everything else we do.
Some concerns are valid and avoidable, but most fears are irrational, but all have probabilities of happening and are determined totally by chance.
Some will never realize this and continue to be chicken littles.
If anyone refuses to be guided by rational probabilities, then there is no way to change these peoples minds.
They are forever guided by their ignorance.

[elader]

what about that cpap machine at the sleep center that so many people use....

[sleepycarol]

I think it is ridiculous to be so paranoid over this issue.

Like others have mentioned machines and masks are reused everyday in the hospital or clinic setting. I know the sleep clinic where Ihad my titration study washed and reused the masks that were being used in their facility.

[Grems4ever]

Let's not forget that if you use a DME, there's no guarantee that the machine you bring home with you is new. I have no doubt that they reuse the machines they get back from patients (after a thorough cleaning of course...). The only way to be certain that you have a "new" machine is to order one. My machine, while it appears new, did not come with the original packaging. I've got all the info and odds and ends, but I have no clue as to the history of the machine's past.

David

BTW - My chances of contracting TB at work are far higher than the average person will ever see in their lifetime.

[JayC]

slightly off the original topic, but in response to "new" machines from DME...

My blower hours (not erasable) were within 1 hour of stated "usage hours" when I first got the machine.

Given that, plus the date of manufacture/serial number of machine, plus my ResMed APAP is difficult to even get from many a DME as they lose profits (since it's all the same to Medicare).....I can be quite sure the tech was testing my machine for less than an hour before he delivered it without original packaging. And that it was *not* a returned rental....

Although, I can't be sure he washed his hands before doing it <wink>....

J