How can anyone trust the DME ppl!? ranting a bit
How can anyone trust the DME ppl!? ranting a bit
Wow. It was quite an experience today.
So something is wrong with my CPAP. At first it seemed to me the pressure wasn't right and I've been waking up gasping and the machine has not recorded an event. I thought maybe it was just my imagination or I'm just used to the pressure or something. Then it started doing this thing where I press the button to turn it on and it starts beeping and the lights are flashing. Air is still coming out of it but it's very low pressure. Also, sometimes the auto on comes on and it beeps then turns off then comes on again. Crazy. And I don't have the auto off feature set (and the card is in there right). So I called the DME to ask if they could check it and see if it's working right. When I explained what was happening they said they would give me a loaner machine and send my machine to respironics to figure out what is wrong with it since it's still under warranty. So they tell me to bring the machine. In the mean time I look in the manual and see that the flashing lights and beeping is indicative of a bad power supply. So I take the power supply in as well.
So when I get there, the guy who usually deals with CPAP patients is with another patient so some other dude comes out and takes my machine to the back to "test it". Ten minutes go by and he comes back out and says "someone has been fiddling with the settings..." I said yes I changed the pressure. I spoke with Dr. about that and he said it's fine. He also told me to call his office and let them know what pressure I end up with and then he would let you guys know what it is, I did that a while ago...
Seriously, it was like I was simply speaking to a brick wall because he says well I changed the pressure setting back to your original prescription and I think that's probably the problem you were having with it is it was set on the wrong pressure...
*HEAD* *DESK*
I said, no, I have been using that other pressure for MONTHS, there is something wrong with this machine. So I explained again to him what it was doing. So then he was like oh well that's different than what I was told (yeah right, I don't think he was told anything or read anything). So then he takes it to the back again, gone a long time...
In the meantime another guy comes in with the exact same machine I have and tells them he wants the pressure changed. I almost said something to him, but decided against it as I was already having problems of my own with these people. But I feel bad for him. Even worse he said I'll just come pick it up on monday. I just about fell out of the chair. WHO WOULD SPEND EVEN ONE NIGHT WITHOUT IT?!! I wouldn't stand for it. I couldn't believe it. Someone doesn't take it nearly seriously enough. But whatever, he looked like a grown man who can make his own decisions about his own life even if they are the wrong ones.
Anyway, so then that guy comes back with a loaner machine for me. I asked if anyone else has been using it and gave it a sniff. I told them I do not want to use a machine that's been around cigarette smoke. It didn't smell bad as far as I can tell, but we'll see tonight. I guess I should probably turn it on now before they close in case it stinks and they need to give me another one. So anyway I then said I wanted another power supply as well, and wanted to send the one I have to respironics, because of the possibility that the power supply is bad.
He looked at me like I was nuts. Arg. So I said, it won't do me much good to have a loaner machine if the power supply is bad and besides I wouldn't want to damage the loaner machine if it is bad. So he says well it won't damage it...then he took it and the loaner machine and said he was going to "test it". So he came back and said it works fine! When I asked him how he "tested it" he said he plugged it in and turned it on. *sigh* I said look, my machine seemed to work fine most of the time too, but every now and then it's doing this light blinking and beeping and turning off for no reason, etc. I want another power supply and to send this one to respironics. So he finally got me another power supply and wrote a note that I wanted the power supply sent in as well.
So then they say oh and BTW you have to pay us $15 to cover the shipping charge. I wondered what I was paying THEM for...oh only because my insurance insists I rent the d*** thing for way more than the cost of a new one for months on end. I'll be so glad when that time is up and I can own the machine myself!!
And he said BTW you should have the doctor call us and tell us what your prescription pressure is supposed to be. I said ok fine. Then I said and while I'm here could you please get me a copy of my prescription. I decided I want it because I want to try and buy a back up machine. I don't like this idea of using a machine that someone else has used and never knowing if it's going to even be useable due to someone stinking it up with smoke or perfume or something. I didn't tell them that, I just said I want a copy of my prescription. I have a right to have it. So he says sure and goes to get it. A while later he shows back up with 1. copy of my prescription and 2. copy of the order my doctor sent to them saying I could change my own pressure. So I looked at that and I said so do you still need me to have the doctor call you or is this sufficient? He said no that is sufficient...
Then he actually started lecturing me on how the machine works (he hasn't got a f'ing clue, btw). He said since it's an auto pap you can just set it on anything and the machine will go where it needs to go all by itself. I just kind of raised my eyebrow and looked at him like ok...then he says that he uses the same machine and he just sets his on 4-20. I just stood there shaking my head and I said really that works for you? He claimed it did.
I have my doubts that it's doing much for him, given my experience with him thus far. I decided to let it go and just explain to him that I'd gotten a card reader and software and downloaded the card so I could see the breathing events the machine recorded and then I explained that when I changed the pressure range my AHI went way down and I felt better. Then I said I don't think it's necessary to mess with what's working. And hopefully by explaining that he might get a clue that the "therapy" he's utilizing for himself is probably not working right...or that he can check it with software. For crise sake working at the DME he ought to be able to just bring his card to work and download it.
Note that what I know about the machine is that when you set it on a really wide pressure range like that it gets too sensitive and jumps all over the place. Not only would the pressure changes possibly cause arousals but it probably won't be very effective. And for myself I know that the second I fall asleep my throat collapses.
Oh and just when I was about to leave it dawned on him that he had set the wrong pressure on it and decided to ask me if I needed help putting the pressure back. I said no, I can do it, thanks.
What gets me is that I'm sure there are many patients they have that haven't got a clue where to start figuring this stuff out and who are trusting them (DME people) to know what they are doing and talking about. Clearly they do not!!
I guess this rant makes it seem like the interaction was a lot worse than it was. I was very polite but insistent and he pretty much was too. I just feel frustrated inside thinking if I hadn't spent so much time reading this forum and about sleep and apnea and etc I probably would still be stuck with an ineffective pressure and a machine that's not working right. How many other people is this happening to? How many just give up because it seems like the therapy doesn't work? And this is one of the better DMEs around. I think maybe sleep medicine needs to change its approach and start educating patients on how to track their own therapy and set their own pressures and use real trained health professionals to guide them.
So something is wrong with my CPAP. At first it seemed to me the pressure wasn't right and I've been waking up gasping and the machine has not recorded an event. I thought maybe it was just my imagination or I'm just used to the pressure or something. Then it started doing this thing where I press the button to turn it on and it starts beeping and the lights are flashing. Air is still coming out of it but it's very low pressure. Also, sometimes the auto on comes on and it beeps then turns off then comes on again. Crazy. And I don't have the auto off feature set (and the card is in there right). So I called the DME to ask if they could check it and see if it's working right. When I explained what was happening they said they would give me a loaner machine and send my machine to respironics to figure out what is wrong with it since it's still under warranty. So they tell me to bring the machine. In the mean time I look in the manual and see that the flashing lights and beeping is indicative of a bad power supply. So I take the power supply in as well.
So when I get there, the guy who usually deals with CPAP patients is with another patient so some other dude comes out and takes my machine to the back to "test it". Ten minutes go by and he comes back out and says "someone has been fiddling with the settings..." I said yes I changed the pressure. I spoke with Dr. about that and he said it's fine. He also told me to call his office and let them know what pressure I end up with and then he would let you guys know what it is, I did that a while ago...
Seriously, it was like I was simply speaking to a brick wall because he says well I changed the pressure setting back to your original prescription and I think that's probably the problem you were having with it is it was set on the wrong pressure...
*HEAD* *DESK*
I said, no, I have been using that other pressure for MONTHS, there is something wrong with this machine. So I explained again to him what it was doing. So then he was like oh well that's different than what I was told (yeah right, I don't think he was told anything or read anything). So then he takes it to the back again, gone a long time...
In the meantime another guy comes in with the exact same machine I have and tells them he wants the pressure changed. I almost said something to him, but decided against it as I was already having problems of my own with these people. But I feel bad for him. Even worse he said I'll just come pick it up on monday. I just about fell out of the chair. WHO WOULD SPEND EVEN ONE NIGHT WITHOUT IT?!! I wouldn't stand for it. I couldn't believe it. Someone doesn't take it nearly seriously enough. But whatever, he looked like a grown man who can make his own decisions about his own life even if they are the wrong ones.
Anyway, so then that guy comes back with a loaner machine for me. I asked if anyone else has been using it and gave it a sniff. I told them I do not want to use a machine that's been around cigarette smoke. It didn't smell bad as far as I can tell, but we'll see tonight. I guess I should probably turn it on now before they close in case it stinks and they need to give me another one. So anyway I then said I wanted another power supply as well, and wanted to send the one I have to respironics, because of the possibility that the power supply is bad.
He looked at me like I was nuts. Arg. So I said, it won't do me much good to have a loaner machine if the power supply is bad and besides I wouldn't want to damage the loaner machine if it is bad. So he says well it won't damage it...then he took it and the loaner machine and said he was going to "test it". So he came back and said it works fine! When I asked him how he "tested it" he said he plugged it in and turned it on. *sigh* I said look, my machine seemed to work fine most of the time too, but every now and then it's doing this light blinking and beeping and turning off for no reason, etc. I want another power supply and to send this one to respironics. So he finally got me another power supply and wrote a note that I wanted the power supply sent in as well.
So then they say oh and BTW you have to pay us $15 to cover the shipping charge. I wondered what I was paying THEM for...oh only because my insurance insists I rent the d*** thing for way more than the cost of a new one for months on end. I'll be so glad when that time is up and I can own the machine myself!!
And he said BTW you should have the doctor call us and tell us what your prescription pressure is supposed to be. I said ok fine. Then I said and while I'm here could you please get me a copy of my prescription. I decided I want it because I want to try and buy a back up machine. I don't like this idea of using a machine that someone else has used and never knowing if it's going to even be useable due to someone stinking it up with smoke or perfume or something. I didn't tell them that, I just said I want a copy of my prescription. I have a right to have it. So he says sure and goes to get it. A while later he shows back up with 1. copy of my prescription and 2. copy of the order my doctor sent to them saying I could change my own pressure. So I looked at that and I said so do you still need me to have the doctor call you or is this sufficient? He said no that is sufficient...
Then he actually started lecturing me on how the machine works (he hasn't got a f'ing clue, btw). He said since it's an auto pap you can just set it on anything and the machine will go where it needs to go all by itself. I just kind of raised my eyebrow and looked at him like ok...then he says that he uses the same machine and he just sets his on 4-20. I just stood there shaking my head and I said really that works for you? He claimed it did.
I have my doubts that it's doing much for him, given my experience with him thus far. I decided to let it go and just explain to him that I'd gotten a card reader and software and downloaded the card so I could see the breathing events the machine recorded and then I explained that when I changed the pressure range my AHI went way down and I felt better. Then I said I don't think it's necessary to mess with what's working. And hopefully by explaining that he might get a clue that the "therapy" he's utilizing for himself is probably not working right...or that he can check it with software. For crise sake working at the DME he ought to be able to just bring his card to work and download it.
Note that what I know about the machine is that when you set it on a really wide pressure range like that it gets too sensitive and jumps all over the place. Not only would the pressure changes possibly cause arousals but it probably won't be very effective. And for myself I know that the second I fall asleep my throat collapses.
Oh and just when I was about to leave it dawned on him that he had set the wrong pressure on it and decided to ask me if I needed help putting the pressure back. I said no, I can do it, thanks.
What gets me is that I'm sure there are many patients they have that haven't got a clue where to start figuring this stuff out and who are trusting them (DME people) to know what they are doing and talking about. Clearly they do not!!
I guess this rant makes it seem like the interaction was a lot worse than it was. I was very polite but insistent and he pretty much was too. I just feel frustrated inside thinking if I hadn't spent so much time reading this forum and about sleep and apnea and etc I probably would still be stuck with an ineffective pressure and a machine that's not working right. How many other people is this happening to? How many just give up because it seems like the therapy doesn't work? And this is one of the better DMEs around. I think maybe sleep medicine needs to change its approach and start educating patients on how to track their own therapy and set their own pressures and use real trained health professionals to guide them.
_________________
Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Additional Comments: Respironics Simplicity nasal mask small |
Re: How can anyone trust the DME ppl!? ranting a bit
I think everybody ought to read your post.
Well Said!
Well Said!
Re: How can anyone trust the DME ppl!? ranting a bit
Funny you posted this, yesterday I took my smart card in to be downloaded for the 2nd time, and both times now it was blank. So today they had me bring in my machine and swapped it out (gave me a reconditioned one, whole other story) and they saw I had changed my pressure, asked how that happened, said I did it, told me I wasnt allowed to do that, I said I drive fast too, not supposed to do that either but I do. Anyway, gave me the whole story about they and the doc. know best, I told them they didnt know squat about my therapy since the card hadn't worked since day 1. Explained that my 90% pressure was around 14 all the time so I changed my pressure from 6-15 to 12-15 and my AHI went from around 5 to around .5. Now the RT comes out and starts in on how I am breaking the law, etc. etc.. I just said, no Im not, I am being PROACTIVE in my therapy since no one else is. She must be as stubborn as me, cause after 5 minutes of arguing, I picked up the machine and asked if they or I needed anything else, they said no, and I left.
- rested gal
- Posts: 12881
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- Location: Tennessee
Re: How can anyone trust the DME ppl!? ranting a bit
LOL!! Some of them do love to use that false "It's ILLEGAL" scare tactic, don't they? Some of them probably do truly believe that, however, because they're used to thinking about it from the standpoint of what state law says about the scope of duties they can perform under their respiratory therapist license.boston wrote:Now the RT comes out and starts in on how I am breaking the law, etc. etc.. I just said, no Im not, I am being PROACTIVE in my therapy since no one else is.
It's probably illegal in most states for RTs to set or change someone's pressure without a doctor's order. That would be tantamount to the RT "practicing medicine." But the cpap USER can do whatever he/she wants to do to his/her own machine. That's practicing medicine on oneself. Might be smart to do, might not be smart to do...but it's our own decision to make. Not illegal as far as I know.
Here's an interesting 4 page topic about that:
viewtopic.php?t=3366
ResMed S9 VPAP Auto (ASV)
Humidifier: Integrated + Climate Control hose
Mask: Aeiomed Headrest (deconstructed, with homemade straps
3M painters tape over mouth
ALL LINKS by rested gal:
viewtopic.php?t=17435
Humidifier: Integrated + Climate Control hose
Mask: Aeiomed Headrest (deconstructed, with homemade straps
3M painters tape over mouth
ALL LINKS by rested gal:
viewtopic.php?t=17435
Re: How can anyone trust the DME ppl!? ranting a bit
LOL! I probably would have gasped and said OMG CALL TEH POLICE!boston wrote:Now the RT comes out and starts in on how I am breaking the law, etc. etc..
Re: How can anyone trust the DME ppl!? ranting a bit
boston wrote: they saw I had changed my pressure, asked how that happened, said I did it, told me I wasnt allowed to do that, I said I drive fast too, not supposed to do that either but I do.
...you're right, you don't know squat.boston wrote:I changed my pressure from 6-15 to 12-15 and my AHI went from around 5 to around .5.
....ah, no, she's breaking the law.....boston wrote:Now the RT comes out and starts in on how I am breaking the law, etc.
...oh, yea, there is no law for felony stupid.
"If your therapy is improving your health but you're not doing anything
to see or feel those changes, you'll never know what you're capable of."
I said that.
to see or feel those changes, you'll never know what you're capable of."
I said that.
Re: How can anyone trust the DME ppl!? ranting a bit
Guest wrote:LOL! I probably would have gasped and said OMG CALL TEH POLICE!boston wrote:Now the RT comes out and starts in on how I am breaking the law, etc. etc..
My understanding of the right way to do that is for you to stretch out your arms in front of you with the inside of your wrists touching and to say: "So, then, do you want to call 9-1-1 or shall I?" while you smile a big toothy grin!
Re: How can anyone trust the DME ppl!? ranting a bit

(5) REMstar Autos w/C-Flex & (6) REMstar Pro 2 CPAPs w/C-Flex - Pressure Setting = 14 cm.
"Passover" Humidification - ResMed Ultra Mirage FF - Encore Pro w/Card Reader & MyEncore software - Chiroflow pillow
User since 05/14/05
"Passover" Humidification - ResMed Ultra Mirage FF - Encore Pro w/Card Reader & MyEncore software - Chiroflow pillow
User since 05/14/05
- Squeakywheels
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:19 pm
- Location: State of Confusion
Re: How can anyone trust the DME ppl!? ranting a bit
Ok so this might be a bit off topic but I just couldnt resist when I saw the DME topic come up. I have had a nightmare with DMEs in the past with my wheelchair. My last one "forgot" to put the bolt holding my arm rest to my chair back on (needless to say 1 nasty fall later that night) and then took 2 months to call me back to take care of the damaged arm rest. I also had signed up for RT there so I could get new headgear and well, its been since Aug and even after weekly calls to them, they still do not return phone calls. I since found a new DME and am hoping they are better.
- MaskedBandit
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:46 pm
Re: How can anyone trust the DME ppl!? ranting a bit
Thanks to places like this board and a few other online sleep apnea forums I knew the few local DME's that I called in the beginning weren't prepared for someone that knew what they were talking about.
Homelink wanted a $1400 rental for the S8 Autoset II because Aetna refuses to purchase it. Told them that was ridiculous as the machine itself goes for less than $800 online.
Apria wanted $68 a month rental, indefinitely because they said Aetna only rented the unit and would never purchase it. Told me I had no choice, told them thanks no thanks!
Went off on my own and purchased the unit for less than $700 complete with the H4i. I can only imagine the people that walk in and take whatever they have without doing any research.
Homelink wanted a $1400 rental for the S8 Autoset II because Aetna refuses to purchase it. Told them that was ridiculous as the machine itself goes for less than $800 online.
Apria wanted $68 a month rental, indefinitely because they said Aetna only rented the unit and would never purchase it. Told me I had no choice, told them thanks no thanks!
Went off on my own and purchased the unit for less than $700 complete with the H4i. I can only imagine the people that walk in and take whatever they have without doing any research.
Re: How can anyone trust the DME ppl!? ranting a bit
Ive got to remember that one !!!jnk wrote:Guest wrote:LOL! I probably would have gasped and said OMG CALL TEH POLICE!boston wrote:Now the RT comes out and starts in on how I am breaking the law, etc. etc..
My understanding of the right way to do that is for you to stretch out your arms in front of you with the inside of your wrists touching and to say: "So, then, do you want to call 9-1-1 or shall I?" while you smile a big toothy grin!
Re: How can anyone trust the DME ppl!? ranting a bit
Who says SA doesn't kill brain cells? I think this guy is Exhibit #1.nobody wrote:Then he actually started lecturing me on how the machine works (he hasn't got a f'ing clue, btw). He said since it's an auto pap you can just set it on anything and the machine will go where it needs to go all by itself. I just kind of raised my eyebrow and looked at him like ok...then he says that he uses the same machine and he just sets his on 4-20.
Boston, Carbonman, Jeff, Den..... thank you. Today was a rough one, and I really needed the gut-busting, tears-dripping-off-my-chin laugh you just gave me.
I am so blessed. During our first discussion, my RT said, "What do you mean, your doctor won't prescribe an APAP????" -- all the while knowing that my insurance company will pay his company no more money for an APAP than it will for a CPAP, so it would actually make less on the deal. He's been the nicest, most helpful person I've encountered in a long time. For example, when I asked him about a Whisper Cap for my machine, he got one and threw it in, gratis. (I checked the paperwork... my insurance company wasn't charged for it, nor did he charge me for it.) That's the kind of RT I have. Thank you, God, for Ron Weaver, RT Extraordinaire, with American Home Medical of Camp Hill, Pennsylvania!!!!!
There are good ones out there. Those of you who haven't been able to locate one do have my most serious and deepest sympathy.
Marsha
Resp. Pro M Series CPAP @ 12 cm, 0 C-Flex, 0 HH & Opus 360 mask (backup: Hybrid) since 8/11/08; member since 7/23/08
A good laugh and a long sleep are the best cures in the doctor's book. ~ Irish Proverb
A good laugh and a long sleep are the best cures in the doctor's book. ~ Irish Proverb
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- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:12 pm
- Location: southcentral PA
Re: How can anyone trust the DME ppl!? ranting a bit
What a difference a single word in a company name can make. My current DME is American Home Patient, also of Camp Hill, PA and although they aren't nearly as bad as some of the horror stories I've read about here, they certainly aren't so good as to have me publicly singing their praises. I just might have to switch out at the next available chance ...............Songbird wrote:Thank you, God, for Ron Weaver, RT Extraordinaire, with American Home Medical of Camp Hill, Pennsylvania!!!!!
Re: How can anyone trust the DME ppl!? ranting a bit
There are greate DME's out there, if your's is bad, try to find another. I got blessed, the sleep doc the cardiologist referred us to is fantastic and thorough, the DME the sleep doc prefers is the same. I can't say enough about my RT. She delivered a Quattro to my workplace the other day. She did not want to just hand it to me, but came back to my office, and fit the mask for me, to make sure it was the right size and fit correctly. She explained what she was doing while fitting it, and since my husband works at the same place and will be getting his own machine later this month (his titration is the 23rd), she explained it all to him also. We are still trying to get the "right" mask for me for daily use, and she is very patient with my requests for "can I try it in a smaller cushion", "are there other options", etc.
I figured that I would have to go out of pocket for the Quattro, since it is a "second mask", but I think she is comping that one to me.....she certainly wouldn't let me write her a check....
I figured that I would have to go out of pocket for the Quattro, since it is a "second mask", but I think she is comping that one to me.....she certainly wouldn't let me write her a check....
_________________
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control |
Additional Comments: Pressure at 10, double insulated hose |
I'm still hot....it just comes in flashes...
iMob Friend Code - 179-961-093
iMob Friend Code - 179-961-093
Re: How can anyone trust the DME ppl!? ranting a bit
This is from his business card:sleepyangler wrote:I just might have to switch out at the next available chance ...............
Ron Weaver, RRT Respiratory Therapist
American Home Medical Equipment Company (Div. of American Homecare Supply Co.)
2300A Old Gettysburg Road, Camp Hill, PA 17011
717-761-9124 or 1-800-761-9340
My impression is that Ron is NOT widely knowledgable about the "science" of sleep apnea or xpap equipment. Basically, he's a salesman. But my experience has shown him to be honest, open to new ideas and willing to work with the patient. In my book, that's worth lots of points, and by the time I get to the DME stage, that's exactly what I need.
I had initially contacted Lincare in Lemoyne. By that time, I had already been a member here for a couple of weeks, done lots of reading, etc. I knew which machine I wanted and had the mask choices down to two. I called a lot of local DMEs, and when the office manager of the Lemoyne Lincare said they'd be able to get all brands, models, etc. because it's a national company, that decided me. Made good sense.
I then talked about the details of what I was interested in with Lincare's RT over the phone, she said all of it was in stock, I made an appointment, walked in, and knew I was in trouble when she told me I needed to pay my part of the cost (not covered by insurance) that day. On the phone, she had said they'd bill my ins co and then bill me after everything had gone through/been decided by my company. Strike one.
Then I saw she had an entirely different (NOT data capable) machine set up; she said they couldn't get the one she'd promised on the phone. Strike two.
She did have the two masks, and I decided I preferred the Opus 360, but she said I could only have one set of pillows. I said, "but I know the Opus comes with small, medium and large pillows." "Yes," she said, "but we're only allowed to give you one of them because of the insurance company's requirements." Strike three. I dubbed that particular Lincare "Bait 'n' Switch 'r' Us" (have no idea how the other ones are) and walked.
At American Home Medical, I got the data capable machine I wanted, as well as the Opus 360 and all of the pillows that came with it. Ron just shook his head when I told him another DME tried to tell me I couldn't have everything that came with it because of insurance requirements. So he may not be up to speed on all things having to do with SA, but he's a good guy with scruples; in my book, that wins every time.
Marsha
Resp. Pro M Series CPAP @ 12 cm, 0 C-Flex, 0 HH & Opus 360 mask (backup: Hybrid) since 8/11/08; member since 7/23/08
A good laugh and a long sleep are the best cures in the doctor's book. ~ Irish Proverb
A good laugh and a long sleep are the best cures in the doctor's book. ~ Irish Proverb