I take a leak (3 dats of Quattro FF data)

[elader]

So here are my last three days of data.

advantages of ff quattro over comfortgel nasal pask: no pain, actually feels more natural to me, allows a little mouth breathing
disadvantages - seems to seal well at the start of the night, but when I move about, I seem to break the seal near my mouth, allowing the mask to 'snore'. The leak line seems to always be least complicated when I fall asleep because O am in one position, but then i get woke up sometime i the middle of the night to the sound of a farting mask.

no pain is a good thing, but i just dont know how to control the leaks without resorting to tightening the mask. I will try the stocking round the middle thing next. The thing is, I feel better using this mask than the nasal mask, so I think I am getting better sleep. I actually had a couple of dreams.


And NO, I am NOT going to raise the max pressure till I get the leaks under control. I HATE the 'chasing the leaks' thing.

[rested gal]

And NO, I am NOT going to raise the max pressure till I get the leaks under control. I HATE the 'chasing the leaks' thing.

Awwww...you're no fun! (j/k)

How 'bout this, then? How about setting both the min and max pressures to the same number, like, say... 10 cm. Leaving the machine using auto mode with C-Flex on. Then it will operate like straight CPAP with C-flex, and will keep gathering all the events info including flow limitations data that "auto" reports but straight cpap mode doesn't.

A steady pressure might give you a better look at the leak situation while you're working on eliminating as many mask leaks as possible.

I will try the stocking round the middle thing next.

Brave man!!!

[carbonman]

no pain is a good thing, I will try the stocking round the middle thing next. The thing is, I feel better using this mask than the nasal mask, so I think I am getting better sleep. I actually had a couple of dreams.

More tales from the Odyssey of the Mask.

I went back and looked at my leak lines from my time anchored in Quattro bay.
They were actually much better than yours.
I can only describe my experience w/the Q, as fickle.
One night, bliss.
The next night, dancing w/the devil.

What a shame, as I think Quattro bay is so beautiful.
The lines, the colors....but, what a trickster.......

I gave away the med. Q and the small Q, lives a quiet, lonely life in the closet.

If the winds in Quattro bay are blowing you into the abyss of your mind,
then hold tight to the wheel and stay the course.

[elader]

Uh...CPAP Haiku?

I can get a new mask in January. I will call the DME and can ask her to order a couple I have not tried on yet. I guess I'll see about the one you have. Any other suggestions?

no pain is a good thing, I will try the stocking round the middle thing next. The thing is, I feel better using this mask than the nasal mask, so I think I am getting better sleep. I actually had a couple of dreams.

More tales from the Odyssey of the Mask.

I went back and looked at my leak lines from my time anchored in Quattro bay.
They were actually much better than yours.
I can only describe my experience w/the Q, as fickle.
One night, bliss.
The next night, dancing w/the devil.

What a shame, as I think Quattro bay is so beautiful.
The lines, the colors....but, what a trickster.......

I gave away the med. Q and the small Q, lives a quiet, lonely life in the closet.

If the winds in Quattro bay are blowing you into the abyss of your mind,
then hold tight to the wheel and stay the course.

[phoebe368]

I finally got used the Quattro mask after months of trying various sizes and configurations. Here are my thoughts –

Keep the tops straps a little loose. Have the straps loose enough so that the forehead piece just rests on the forehead. Over tightening the top straps will cause the whole mask to slide upward when you sleep there by causing leaks at the bottom. For some reason, my mask leaks less when the top part is lower down on my nose bridge than what feels natural - initially it felt as if it should be higher. The higher the top part of the mask is on your nose bridge the likelier it will leak below when your jaw relaxes and drops at night thereby breaking the seal. Use the knob to get a good seal over the nose bridge. If you leak a lot at the top use Mack’s silicone putty in the “V” area of the mask. Just roll out a 2 – 2 ½ inch piece of silicone putty like a snake – about the width of a skinny pencil and affix to the inside flap in the V area of the mask. Other people have done this – do a search in this forum.

From my experience and from what others have said, 95% of getting a good fit with the Quattro is in the bottom straps. They should be tight enough to create a snug fit but do not over tighten as this will cause the silicone to crinkle causing leaks. Determining this part is difficult – I feel they are tight enough when they feel very snug. I had to tighten the straps more than I thought I would to get a good seal. To test my mask I lay on my back with my mask on and thrash gently from side to side – if there are no leaks than my mask is good to go.

For the longest time I was having leaks at the mask bottom and I couldn’t figure out why. I finally realized that when I slept my jaw would drop down really far and break the bottom seal. To remedy this I use a chinstrap. I know, not the chinstrap again – I thought I’d be done with this after the nasal mask. But, it was easy to get used to again. I used it not to keep my mouth totally shut but just closed enough so that it wouldn’t drop as far.

Finally, wash your skin and masks before you sleep so that they are totally free of oil.

I also have tried the TAP dental device which works like a charm and it MUCH easier to get used to then the mask but mine recently broke.

The bottom line is, be extremely patient with CPAP therapy and research other’s posts on the Quattro like crazy to pick up some good tips!!

[rested gal]

phoebe, what a great post and helpful advice! Hope you'll be posting a lot on the board.

[Songbird]

Eric, I remember your saying you weren't thrilled about going to a full face mask. You might want to try the Hybrid, which combines nasal pillows with a FFM. You can see it here: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/RespCa ... -Mask.html (much better than the Liberty hybrid, imo). Not being a mouth breather, I have it as a backup to my Opus 360 for congested sinus times and like it because there's nothing along the forehead or between the eyes/down the nose, yet it was relatively easy to get a good seal. I think Rooster's our resident expert on the Hybrid, and this thread has an excellent discussion about it, ways to adjust it, etc.: viewtopic.php?t=14422&highlight=. (Creative subject line, btw. )

Marsha

[elader]

Marsha, the thing is that the mask is such a relief pain-wise versus what I was using, that if it wasnt leaking, I would actually be quite pleased. As it is I can tell I am sleeping better - amazingly, when i retire at 10AM, I am up and at 'em at 6:30 AM - something I have NEVER experienced as far as I can recall. So I am not unhappy, except I am jealous of the leaklines that people keep posting here. I am not inept. 25 years of bench research has certainly enabled me to methodically adjust variables to get best results. I am just a little disappointed that I dont seem to be getting anywhere. I am far from giving up though. I want to try the fit on the mask that Carbonman is using. Maybe I can convince the DMA to order one of these too. Fitment is free after all.

Eric, I remember your saying you weren't thrilled about going to a full face mask. You might want to try the Hybrid, which combines nasal pillows with a FFM. You can see it here: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/RespCa ... -Mask.html (much better than the Liberty hybrid, imo). Not being a mouth breather, I have it as a backup to my Opus 360 for congested sinus times and like it because there's nothing along the forehead or between the eyes/down the nose, yet it was relatively easy to get a good seal. I think Rooster's our resident expert on the Hybrid, and this thread has an excellent discussion about it, ways to adjust it, etc.: viewtopic.php?t=14422&highlight=. (Creative subject line, btw. )

Marsha

[DoriC]

RG, I always learn something from you, didn't realize min & max could be set the same to keep getting auto data. So another setting to experiment with as hubby seems to be very sensitive to pressure changes. We're still getting too many hills and valleys in the leak line, also occasional LL when he gets up for a nature call until he settles down again, last night about 18mins. His rate should be about 45ish, he's getting mostly 49.0.

Phoebe, great info. We have a Quattro-M generously donated to us by a great guy (don't know if he wants to be named?), but we still can't get the hang of it, very tempermental to say the least. We keep trying it out for short naps, but even then it's a problem. Will try your suggestions. As Carbonman might say, it really is a thing of beauty, but so far the UMFF works better for us, relatively speaking.

[carbonman]

Uh...CPAP Haiku?

Why not??

Plenty of good, practical information and experience,
locked in the bounds of reality.

My experience will not be your experience.....
my reality will never be your reality.....

Why not drift away.....

I am not inept. 25 years of bench research has certainly enabled me to methodically adjust variables to get best results. I am just a little disappointed that I dont seem to be getting anywhere.

When I set sail on this cpap journey, I never felt so out of control.
As I learned, and tried different things, some working very well,
some not so.....I felt more in control w/each success and failure.
I hung on to the success and cast the failures aside and
never looked back.

Now, as I recover and feel better each am,
I have never felt so in control of anything in my life, ever.

I don't wait for any person or entity to change something,
try something new,
to improve this strange and wonderful process,
that is giving me my life back.

[SnoozeButton]

I've had my Quattro for a month now and I have just now found the perfect sweet spot in adjustment. For me I had to wear it a bit lower to prevent chin leaks and then it was a matter of tweaking the strap adjustments so that they weren't too tight and finding the proper adjustment on the forehead knob, but the last 2 nights have been wonderful as far as comfort and lower leak rates. I, too, have cheek issues and found that I needed to adjust the straps a different amount on each side to compensate.

Your mask leak rate might not be that bad, if I am understanding correctly. According to the booklet that came with mine on the "Pressure-Flow Curve" chart, it shows 41 for a pressure of 12 (which is your 90% pressure). If I am correct in my understanding that means a leak rate of 41 is acceptable range for that pressure and if that is so, you're not too far off for that particular mask.

[Anasazi]

I too took a leak . Wow, what a timely post to my situation. Here are my last three days of data plus some background.

I started with the Quattro small on 12/18/2008 9:03 PM - 12/19/2008 7:56 AM
First night I tried Q while wearing my beard. Results were disappointing. Shaved off the beard for next night, but messed up by not washing my face prior to placing the mask on my bare face. I too have the comfort experience like elader for both nights. I, by Gosh, can sleep with the Q. Again as elader reports lots of mask farts and disappointing report. So last night I followed all the guidance, and the experience felt wonderful - comfortable, no experience of mask farts, absolutely no perceived leaking - the mask felt sealed through the night. BUT again the report below is bewildering to me and disappointing. Makes me wonder what algorithms and process the machine uses to develop the report and if the report is accurate.











Is it time to adjust the pressure range from 8-16 to something like 8-12? OR I can follow rested gal's advice

"How 'bout this, then? How about setting both the min and max pressures to the same number, like, say... 10 cm. Leaving the machine using auto mode with C-Flex on. Then it will operate like straight CPAP with C-flex, and will keep gathering all the events info including flow limitations data that "auto" reports but straight cpap mode doesn't.

A steady pressure might give you a better look at the leak situation while you're working on eliminating as many mask leaks as possible."

Also, phoebe368's advice is intriguing and I believe that my feeling of success last night was a result of inadvertently following her fitting advice less the putty.






On another issue with the DME and Doc. When the DME brought my machine to my house it was the M Series Auto CPAP with C-Flex, Heated Humidifier, EncoreViewer and Card Reader and not the M Series Auto CPAP with A-Flex, Heated Humidifier, EncoreViewer and Card Reader I had requested. The DME fellow stated that they had ordered an A-Flex that would be swapped out for the C-Flex when the A-Flex came in. When I requested a DME visit to discuss other masks than the Swift LT. After the DME was not responsive to alternate masks, I purchased the Quattro on the Auction . Then while the DME was at the house, I asked if the A-Flex had come in. The DME said that he would check with "the boss" to see if he'd allow that swap . I take verbal agreements as binding. Of course, this goes back to my Doc's not amending my prescription to "Auto CPAP of Patient's choice at 10cm with 2L bleed in O2 - Repeat oximetry on above". Never knew if that prescription change failure was a "clerical" error or deliberate. However, Monday, tomorrow, I have a afternoon appointment with the Doc. My intent is to raise the issues of the A-Flex, the prescription, and my reports (the DME looked perplexed and asked "where did you get that report software?". The DME's plan appears to keep me dependent and dumb. ) I am counting on all of your strong telepathy being sent my way in order to keep my demeanor with the Doc rational, and logical rather than going full bore ballistic .

Once again, my praise to carbonman for his CPAP Haiku and ongoing encouragement, persistence and outstanding attitude.

[rested gal]

Anasazi, good luck on getting the Auto with A-flex you were supposed to have received in the first place. The kind of runaround the DME may be getting ready to start would make me furious. grrrrrrrrr.

absolutely no perceived leaking - the mask felt sealed through the night.

Well, when we're asleep there can be a lot going on that we are unaware of. Who'd think people can "sleep" through severe repeated obstructive apneas for years and years? If we can do that,then leaking like crazy all night is a piece of cake for many people to sleep right through. The mask may very well be sealed while you're awake. And isn't leaking when you're awake, lying still and thinking about it. The ballgame can change completely when we're asleep. Facial muscles relax, jaw drops (possibly pulling the mask cushion down or hollowing the cheeks alongside the mouth), and just shifting our heads about on the pillow can shove the mask or headgear out of place. Turn over and the hose can start tugging on the mask if a person doesn't have the hose rigged to not do that.

Even if we are sleeping through massive leaks and waking up to, "Ah, good...there's no leak!", the data does tell the tale.

[DoriC]

RG, if I didn't know better I'd think you were sleeping with my hubby! Everything you mention is exactly what happens during the night and I'm always amazed that his description of a "great night with no leaks" doesn't match when I check the data. But we're working on it.

[DoriC]

I forgot to ask this. Would Phoebe's Quattro fitting recommendations work the same for the UltraMirage? Might be worth trying setting it lower on the nose and adjusting the nose tab up a notch for a better seal. It does seem that the leaks are coming from around the lower cheeks and mouth and a little under the chin.