Free Eggs and Tomatoes for all Newbie Opinions!

[MusicMan]

I think I saw some eggs and tomatoes being passed around in the front row... watch out.

[jnk]

. . . a sticky post that new users could read . . .

I applaud your reflexes in helping out each new one with words of encouragement. The following link is sort of this forum's version of a sticky post on that subject, from the yellow lightbulb of wisdom above, where all the sticky stuff gets put :

our-collective-cpap-wisdom/31/Help-For- ... Users.html

The yellow lightbulb does get missed by some new ones, so we try to recommend a trip up there whenever we can, when we remember, even though not everyone agrees with some of what is there. (The main thing I don't like is that the note at the bottom of that page for suggesting an article be added says to "click the link below" when, on my screen anyway, the link is above that statement. )

This forum, from what I gather, has tried to stay as free-form as it can, in that, for example, there isn't even a section for off-topic posts. (That is why many just slap an "OT" in front of those threads when they start them, as you've noticed.) That uncluttered approach seems to complement the social nature of the place.

Thanks for sticking around and doing your thing, MusicMan.

jeff

[MusicMan]

This is sort of this forum's version of a sticky post on that subject, from the yellow lightbulb of wisdom above, where all the sticky stuff gets put :

our-collective-cpap-wisdom/31/Help-For- ... Users.html

I just found that link today when I started looking around after I posted this. I must have missed it for the first few months I was here. I thought the icons at the top of the page were just forum help buttons or something.

I probably typify an average new forum member who just jumps into the conversation when they find a forum they like. I see a lot of forums that have sticky posts for new members for that very reason. Just thought I would float the idea out there.

[jnk]

That's cool. But be forewarned that some of the long-time posters can be a little protective of the format, and rightfully so. A lot of group-think went into how it landed.

As for me, I'm not gonna suggest any changes till I've been here a year or two. Even then, I fully expect to get chewed out for suggesting it.

So, again, I applaud the thought. I'm just saying "duck" as a heads-up. I think I saw some eggs and tomatoes being passed around in the front row, and there's no chicken-wire in front of this stage!

jeff

[MusicMan]

But be forewarned that some of the long-time posters can be a little protective of the format, and rightfully so. A lot of group-think went into how it landed.

As for me, I'm not gonna suggest any changes till I've been here a year or two. Even then, I fully expect to get chewed out for suggesting it.

So, again, I applaud the thought. I'm just saying "duck" as a heads-up. I think I saw some eggs and tomatoes being passed around in the front row, and there's no chicken-wire in front of this stage!

Oh well, they can either grow up and get over it or I can delete the post and leave the forum. I'm not too fond of being muted or silenced - I was in a church/cult for years that didn't allow opinions or feedback. I am truly sorry to hear that's the way it works around here. The good ole boys network. Take your stripes, pay your dues as an apprentice, and then someday we'll allow you to have an opinion. Aaaarrrghhh!

Go ahead with the eggs and tomatoes. Have your fun. Say hi to Jim Jones for me. I am truly sorry that this is the way this place runs. I thought I had found a good forum to be a part of. Oh well, I guess I'll go check out a few others.

[jnk]

It's not THAT bad. I'm just the overly-protective type. And my perceptions of how it all works around here may be way off. So don't go by me. And who knows, maybe the few grouchy ones are still sleeping off the turkey. And they wouldn't actually hit you with the eggs, anyway, they'd just lob them over your head and smile.

I don't like most forums. At all. There's only one other I've posted once in. Other than that, I don't even like to lurk. This forum is the big exception for me. VERY few rules. Pretty lax. They have certainly put up with a lot of foolishness from me the last six months or so! And I still feel welcome most of the time. I'm just too chicken to say "Hey, ya know, I agree that it would be kinda nice to have a sticky for new ones, beyond the lightbulb and newbie chat, too." So, consider my good-intentioned warning above to be mostly an expression of my own personal sensitivities and cowardice!

[MusicMan]

I'm not fond of being mocked when I post something that someone doesn't agree with. That is nothing but a form of manipulation to try to get people to agree with your way of thinking. I have already seen enough of that happening here to realize this is not a place I would want to stick around. You go ahead and have your little 5000+ posts elite membership who raises their heads higher than the rest of the flock and looks down upon them, and have fun with that. I am truly sorry to find out that this is what happens here.

[jnk]

That's cool too. Lurking works. The main thing is that we all stick to the hose and stay alive, right!

Personally, I enjoy a little good-natured ribbing even when directed my way. It makes me feel welcome. But it's not for everyone. I've hurt a few feelings and had my feelings hurt a few times. I just consider it par for the course.

The main thing is, there are no moderators here. So post what you want and ignore any ribbing. For the most part, the long-time posters here are one of the most welcoming groups around, in my opinion.

But I see now you can handle yourself. It was probably a mistake for me to say anything about what might or might not happen. Sorry.

From one brother musician to another: Keep rocking!

[MusicMan]

No, forget it dude. I was here to help you guys help people from dying, but I can see you've got it under control. I don't need to hear bullshit like this every time I post something.

[jnk]

. . . No, forget it dude. . .

OK. Already forgotten. It's your call. But I think I agree with it.

[Wulfman]

I'm not fond of being mocked when I post something that someone doesn't agree with. That is nothing but a form of manipulation to try to get people to agree with your way of thinking. I have already seen enough of that happening here to realize this is not a place I would want to stick around. You go ahead and have your little 5000+ posts elite membership who raises their heads higher than the rest of the flock and looks down upon them, and have fun with that. I am truly sorry to find out that this is what happens here.

I went back through your posts and the threads you posted in and couldn't find any evidence of you being "mocked".....or did I miss something?

I've SEEN other forums where if you post something "out of the norm" (more like "their way of thinking") you'll get pounced on but good......and I don't like it.....and I hope it's made me more understanding about others' feelings and a more conscientious poster here.

One of the main reasons "we" like this un-divided forum is it's more educational for all of us. We get to see ALL of the questions/subjects. If it's something we're not interested in or have no experience in, then we may not read it or not post to that issue......BUT, we do have the options.
With divided forums, many questions can go unanswered for much longer.

Den

[MusicMan]

Having studied a lot about cults, the classic symptoms are just too obvious to me.

That's cool. But be forewarned that some of the long-time posters can be a little protective of the format, and rightfully so. A lot of group-think went into how it landed.

Interpretation: This is your final warning. Your opinion is not welcome here.

As for me, I'm not gonna suggest any changes till I've been here a year or two. Even then, I fully expect to get chewed out for suggesting it.

Interpretation: As someone who has experienced the wrath of the leaders here, I am warning you what happens if you attempt to express your opinion. The boot camp lasts about two years before you are allowed to think for yourself and express it.

So, again, I applaud the thought. I'm just saying "duck" as a heads-up. I think I saw some eggs and tomatoes being passed around in the front row, and there's no chicken-wire in front of this stage!

Interpretation: While we applaud your zeal, we still have no interest in hearing your opinion. Let me explain what will happen if you present it again: You will be mocked and ridiculed by the elite members of this good ole boys club. It's not pretty, and no one will defend you while you are receiving your punishment. They were going to come in here and bash you themselves, but they had a meeting in the back room and nominated me to come out here and scold you. Because I am trying to earn their favor and get a few brownie points, I volunteered to come in here and explain how this system works to you, because you are obviously too naive to see what is going on here.

---------------------------------

Wow, that's pretty deep guys. Did you come up with this format all by yourselves? Yippee! Somebody deserves a blue star on their merit card.

Let's see... when a business or organization stops listening to their customers' or members' opinions, what happens?

Say hi to Dick Cheney for me!

[MusicMan]

. . . No, forget it dude. . .

OK. Already forgotten. It's your call. But I think I agree with it.

Of course you do Mr. BrownNoser... you don't need anyone in here competing for your spot on the totem pole. How many others have you kicked down the ladder in this manner?

[MusicMan]

Personally, I enjoy a little good-natured ribbing even when directed my way. It makes me feel welcome. But it's not for everyone. I've hurt a few feelings and had my feelings hurt a few times. I just consider it par for the course.

We're not talking about good-natured ribbing here. We're discussing you telling me that my opinion is not welcome here, and that I will be ridiculed and mocked if I express it. A lot of people feel insulted and offended when their opinions are mocked. How many people do you think you have run off from here?

You are the one who should have his opinion silenced... in my opinion. It should be you, and not me.

[MusicMan]

That's As for me, I'm not gonna suggest any changes till I've been here a year or two. Even then, I fully expect to get chewed out for suggesting it.

So, again, I applaud the thought. I'm just saying "duck" as a heads-up.

Are you speaking for the owners of Cpap.com? If so, you may have just cost them a sale. I was considering buying a CPAP machine from them, but not now. You may want to forward this to the person(s) you have been nomitated to represent here:

Never Stop Listening

Never stop listening to what customers have to tell you about advancing your business and your brand. Lead by listening.

I often have the opportunity to speak with customer insight and marketing professionals, and that is the simple advice that I share with them. It is amazing how many of us neglect this simple but frequently forgotten key to success.

The loyalty of our customer base gives us the inspiration to not only listen, but also to weave it into the fabric of Xerox’s philosophy. Our listening has been “institutionalized, productized and built into every aspect of our brand.”

To be fair, we borrowed shamelessly from other good listening companies such as GE, Proctor & Gamble and JetBlue Airways to create initiatives such as the Xerox Innovation Group’s “Dreaming with the Customer” – where listening to a customer’s needs leads to information innovations.

Xerox’s Sentinel software is a simple yet powerful listening tool. Sentinel now serves 126 accounts supporting 30,000 customers in 20 countries. It helped solve 1,700 customer problems and convey 2,200 customer compliments in 2007.

Sentinel allows us to operate well upstream from the customer satisfaction surveys … up where the problems are young, less than 30 days old, before they grow into full-blown dissatisfaction. It teaches us to listen to what’s going on now, in the moment, and to respond in real time.

Our new brand identity also reflects a renewed commitment to listening and connecting to the market in new ways.

Many have asked us what the sphere at the end of our name means. It represents all the customers and partners we listen to. When designers asked us what our brand stands for, we told them about our connections to our customers and partners. They heard it so much, that they added the sphere to our logo with lines of connection crossing it. Those lines are the conversations and we’re the listeners. Simply put, the logo reflects that we are a listening company, deeply connected to our customers.

So, I invite you to go out and listen to a customer somewhere and lay the foundation for a meaningful exchange between you and your customers.

Michael C. MacDonald
President, Marketing Operations
Xerox

Hope this helps.