Illegal?

[Paul56]

I took a browse & lurk over to the other side of the tracks and found a very interesting thread going in the "other" forum right now about the legalities of changing pressure.

Are we all criminals?

I know my DME set the pressure wrong on one of the machines they provided me... set at 6 instead of 8 as per the prescription. Fixed that myself when I discovered the mistake at home.

I wonder if anyone has ever passed away during the night -and- the death was proven to be apnea related -and- the DME set the pressure on their machine wrong.

[BeanMeScot]

Giving that a

[6PtStar]

I have heard that it was illegal to change your own pressure for several years. So far no one has been able to provide a copy of the LAW or a link to it that makes it illegal. I will consider stopping when someone provides me with a link to where it says this. I'm sorry but I don't beleave it.

Jerry

[Snoredog]

It is not illegal to change your own pressure. All you need is a prescription from a doctor to use the therapy.

People on this therapy are unlikely to take an overdose of CPAP therapy, even if they did it would do nothing
but wake them up.

The only answer you will get from those other sites is see your doctor, don't make changes to your machine as you are an idiot, get in line, stop picking your nose and you can make your donations here.

People that come here for assistance do so because they cannot get it from their doctors and DME's. They are also more likely to leave it with better therapy than they came with.

If you have a disorder like diabetes, cardiovascular disorder, stroke it doesn't matter, you are encouraged to take control over your therapy that includes any lifestyle changes. What we do here is no different, we help people get the answers they cannot get anywhere else.

[Wulfman]

I took a browse & lurk over to the other side of the tracks and found a very interesting thread going in the "other" forum right now about the legalities of changing pressure.

Are we all criminals?

I know my DME set the pressure wrong on one of the machines they provided me... set at 6 instead of 8 as per the prescription. Fixed that myself when I discovered the mistake at home.

I wonder if anyone has ever passed away during the night -and- the death was proven to be apnea related -and- the DME set the pressure on their machine wrong.

I happened to notice that thread a day or two ago......and have had a good laugh following it.
I love it when they fight amongst themselves. And, I'm sort of surprised that the thread hasn't been locked yet.

This question has been thrown around on this forum since before, during and after I joined in 2005.
The answer is "NO". It's not "illegal" not to take other medications that are prescribed.....it's your body and your life.
The DME needs to have an "order" or prescription to set the pressure on the machine, but once it is in your hands, and you have no qualms about telling your doctor you're in charge of your own therapy (Remember.....the doctor works for YOU), you can set it however you like......although a "prudent" person would use some logic about how to go about it.

I've been an advocate of people getting data-capable machines and the software to interpret the data, so I don't advise making drastic changes without backup proof or justification for doing so. It doesn't hurt to "CYA" when still seeing a doctor. Unfortunately, far too many doctors are clueless about too many parts of this therapy......so many of us HAVE to take charge of our therapy.

Den

[boston]

maybe its illegal for the RT to set it other than prescribed, then any ill effects could put them liable, instead if they follow doctors orders, its the doctor liablility.
once that machine is in my hands, aint nobody telling me what to do (although I would listen to the people here give suggestions on what to do.)

[Wulfman]

maybe its illegal for the RT to set it other than prescribed, then any ill effects could put them liable, instead if they follow doctors orders, its the doctor liable.
once that machine is in my hands, aint nobody telling me what to do (although I would listen to the people here give suggestions on what to do.)

Did you mean to say "....IS the doctor liable." ? or "......it's the doctors liability." ?

In any case, that made me think of some things.
How many people have ever died of improper pressure prescribed by a doctor?
How many people have ever died by changing their own pressure? (other than what the doctor initially prescribed)

Then:
How many people have been prescribed this therapy and then gave up? (and died an early death)

My guess is that even if using this therapy at a not-so-perfect pressure, the patient/user has a much better longevity rate than those who have given up on their therapy.

Den

[Goofproof]

I bought a Binford gas powered leaf blower last week, it had a tag on it, warning that it was against the law to push the throttle past idle speed and that trees could sue you if you blew their leaves. What a law to pass just before Fall. Jim

[rested gal]

Here's an interesting old topic on cpaptalk discussing whether it's "illegal" for a cpap user to change the pressure setting on his/her own machine:

Jun 20, 2005 subject: cpap pressure setting
viewtopic.php?t=3366

The state law brought up in that topic dealt with what licensed health care professionals legally can do. The law made no mention of what cpap users themselves can/can't do with their own machines.

The recent thread on that other message board is here (thanks for the link, Den!):
http://www.apneasupport.org/about18865-0-asc-0.html

The fellow, Ken (kengesq) who started that thread sounds like a very intelligent person -- well equipped to handle his own cpap treatment and quite able to stand up to the flack he got from the "DON'T change your own pressure" leaders of that board. Hope he finds his way over to this board.

Another poster in that thread (RAM_Sleep) made some very sensible comments, imho. He'd be a welcome "good'un" over here, too.

[cpapper]

[quote="Paul56"]
I know my DME set the pressure wrong on one of the machines they provided me... set at 6 instead of 8 as per the prescription. Fixed that myself when I discovered the mistake at home. quote]

Same thing happened to me. DME sent a machine back to me via messenger, after losing the one they were supposed to be repairing for me. The one they returned was set at 8, should have been set at 10. I could have driven 35 miles to have them reset it, but with the help and guidance of this forum, I was able to reset the pressure myself. Was I breaking the law?

[Wulfman]

Here's an interesting old topic on cpaptalk discussing whether it's "illegal" for a cpap user to change the pressure setting on his/her own machine:

Jun 20, 2005 subject: cpap pressure setting
viewtopic.php?t=3366

The state law brought up in that topic dealt with what licensed health care professionals legally can do. The law made no mention of what cpap users themselves can/can't do with their own machines.

The recent thread on that other message board is here (thanks for the link, Den!):
http://www.apneasupport.org/about18865-0-asc-0.html

The fellow, Ken (kengesq) who started that thread sounds like a very intelligent person -- well equipped to handle his own cpap treatment and quite able to stand up to the flack he got from the "DON'T change your own pressure" leaders of that board. Hope he finds his way over to this board.

Another poster in that thread (RAM_Sleep) made some very sensible comments, imho. He'd be a welcome "good'un" over here, too.

I believe he already is.....if you search on his user name here......two posts so far. They're ALL welcome here.

Den

[Captain_Midnight]

Paul asks...Are we all criminals?

(Chuckling) I don't think so.

And, when one looks at it, I believe that our "modificatons" represent the future of xPAP therapy, right here.

So many of us have done so well by (1) using nightly data as feedback to (2) make prudent modifications to pressure and pressure ranges; and, these changes have resulted in optimized therapy and self-reported, improved symptomatic relief. (And, I would wager, better compliance.)

I think I recall reading that some of the major xPAP companies read these forums, and I suspect that they are considering machines and software that might work interactively with patients to optimize therapy.

I also suspect that we might see some clinical trials that evaluate symptomatic improvement after instructing patients to modify pressures according to data feedback and some easy guidelines.

BTW, my doc was okay with my mods, especially after seeing a little report I made with my improved results.

Regards all - - Tom


.

[Wulfman]

Another fallacy about the arguments that "You shouldn't change your therapy pressure." or "It's illegal to change your own pressure." is that when patients are given an APAP......either as a therapy machine or as a diagnostic tool (I believe this is SOP at Kaiser, from what I've read) is that your pressure IS GOING TO BE CHANGING ALL NIGHT LONG.......because, they're normally handed out at the wide-open settings of 4 - 20 cm.

Many times the sleep study wasn't successful or was inconclusive, so the APAP is used as a diagnostic tool......and probably WITHOUT knowing whether the person may have central apneas.
SO......if the doctors can use it this way (for one to two weeks at a time), why can't the patient/user use it this way? (diagnostic tool or therapy use)

If it's THAT "dangerous", aren't the doctors risking YOUR life???

Den

[Snoredog]

Here's an interesting old topic on cpaptalk discussing whether it's "illegal" for a cpap user to change the pressure setting on his/her own machine:

Jun 20, 2005 subject: cpap pressure setting
viewtopic.php?t=3366

The state law brought up in that topic dealt with what licensed health care professionals legally can do. The law made no mention of what cpap users themselves can/can't do with their own machines.

The recent thread on that other message board is here (thanks for the link, Den!):
http://www.apneasupport.org/about18865-0-asc-0.html

The fellow, Ken (kengesq) who started that thread sounds like a very intelligent person -- well equipped to handle his own cpap treatment and quite able to stand up to the flack he got from the "DON'T change your own pressure" leaders of that board. Hope he finds his way over to this board.

Another poster in that thread (RAM_Sleep) made some very sensible comments, imho. He'd be a welcome "good'un" over here, too.

I believe he already is.....if you search on his user name here......two posts so far. They're ALL welcome here.

Den

"esq" means esquire or attorney. Makes sense it was an attorney that started the thread about legality, they have nothing better to do, if he isn't licensed he is just masquerading as one.

I suspect he will show up on talkaboutsleep next. What did they used to refer to those kind as? has something to do with ambulance if not mistaken.

Okay what is sad about a bus load attorneys going off a cliff?

yep, you guessed it, one empty seat.

[Goofproof]

"esq" means esquire or attorney. Makes sense it was an attorney that started the thread about legality, they have nothing better to do, if he isn't licensed he is just masquerading as one.

I suspect he will show up on talkaboutsleep next. What did they used to refer to those kind as? has something to do with ambulance if not mistaken.

Okay what is sad about a bus load attorneys going off a cliff?

yep, you guessed it, one empty seat.

The worst part they saved the seat for the judge, he went to the Bar, and stayed too long. Jim

You did hear about the Judge, having trouble passing the Bar.