M BiPAP Auto v. VPAP Auto

[nightjar]

Hey, folks.

After 10.5 years on CPAP, I've learned from a new sleep study that I need a BiPAP. I don't have all my numbers (I will as soon as they send me the complete sleep study results), but the prescription is for BiPAP at 14/11.

Right now, the two machines I'm considering are the Respironics M-series BiPAP Auto and the ResMed VPAP Auto. I've just read DSM's explanation of the differences in how the two machines work, and that helped a lot. I've also learned that the sleep clinic where my study was done uses Respironics equipment, so the results I got that night were achieved via Respironics algorithms.

(The hospital where the sleep clinic is uses Fisher-Paykel humidification units, too. I've noticed at least one person in the forum who uses the Respironics BiPAP Auto and a Fisher-Paykel HC150. . . .)

My big question: Is there anyone here who's used both the BiPAP Auto and the VPAP Auto? I think I've read a post indicating that there's at least one person who owns both machines. I know everyone's different, but I'd be very interested to hear first-hand accounts from folks who've used both machines.

Secondary question: Aside from cosmetics, is there any significant difference between the older RemStar BiPAP Auto with BiFlex and the newer M-series BiPAP Auto?

My current machine, by the way, is a HealthDyne Tranquility Quest 7300; titration's set at 10, and I've never used humidification. The HealthDyne is still working after approximately 27K hours, but I'm really looking forward to a new machine, whatever it turns out to be!

Thanks for whatever insights you can share!

Nath

[Slinky]

I'm partial to the Resmeds for the ease of accessing nightly data via the LCD screen, no extra power brick and only one cord. When I was switched to a bi-level I insisted on the new Resmed VPAP Auto and am very happy w/it. However, I also wanted a backup/travel bi-level and unfortunately bi-levels "ain't" cheap. You get excellent therapy w/either brand so that wasn't an issue for me.

There are more Respironics M Series Bi-PAP Autos w/Bi-Flex available at online auctions since they've been available considerably longer. But I'm NOT a fan of the M Series at all. So I went looking for and eventually found a Respironics RemStar pre-M Series Bi-PAP Auto w/Bi-Flex. They are a little more difficult to find since they are the older "series" but they are also the better device than the M Series in my opinion.

I don't know that the M Series gives any better therapy than the pre-M Series Bi-PAP Auto but I CAN tell you why "I" wouldnt consider an M Series anything: the blue lights that can't be turned off, the tendency to drop data one or two nights a month. In addition, what I "don't" like about the Respironics pre-M or M Series is the necessary power brick, the need for two cords (one w/a heavy box on it) and the extra fuss you have to go thru to access the nightly data via the LCD screen.

[Guest]

if you've been on CPAP for 10 years, what in a PSG would indicate that a BiPAP is necessary? A BiPAP provides more pressure relief, that's all. If you were happy with a CPAP I can't understand why you'd go to a BiPAP?

[nightjar]

I'm partial to the Resmeds for the ease of accessing nightly data via the LCD screen, no extra power brick and only one cord. When I was switched to a bi-level I insisted on the new Resmed VPAP Auto and am very happy w/it.

Thanks, Slinky!

I'm not sure the blue lights would bother me--I'm kinda fond of the green light on front of my old HealthDyne--but the data access is another matter.

Is the data simply hard to access, or do you find the data itself different, less extensive, and/or less helpful on the Respironics machines?

One thing I suppose I'll be doing is writing everything in a notebook by hand and then transferring it to my Mac. From what I can tell, none of these companies has software that works on a Mac. (And I'm not buying a new Intel Mac just for sleep software!) If I did this by hand every morning, would I be missing anything? Does the LCD readout simply give a summary, or is it the same data that winds up on the smartcard and then on the computer, just not graphed out and all?

nath

[Slinky]

Duh, theDean!!! Can't you read either???

... I've learned from a new sleep study that I need a BiPAP ...

NightJar's sleep lab evaluation/titration indicated the NEED for a bi-level and the sleep doctor prescribed a bi-level. What can't you understand about that?? You want everybody on the cheapest bare bone CPAP on the market regardless of their NEED?

[Guest]

SLinky: You don't move someone to Bi-Level if they're happy and compliant on a CPAP. I could care less about cost. That had nothing to do with my question. If YOU could read you'd see that I simply asked what it was on the PSG that indicated a Bi-level was necessary.

[nightjar]

if you've been on CPAP for 10 years, what in a PSG would indicate that a BiPAP is necessary? A BiPAP provides more pressure relief, that's all. If you were happy with a CPAP I can't understand why you'd go to a BiPAP?

You'll be happy to know that I'm going in that direction because of what the sleep clinician found and she and my doctor recommended. And if you could see the graphs from that night, you'd see why: once they settled on a 14/11 tack, it was pretty much smooth sailing.

I could tell the CPAP wasn't cutting it any more, and that's why I had the new sleep study. After all, a body changes in ten years: if we were fixed at a constant, I wouldn't have needed the CPAP to begin with. (Sigh.)

Anyway, the medical professionals confirmed what my body had been telling me.

n

[Slinky]

With the Resmeds it is a simple matter of a two button press and 3-4 second wait for the data to appear on the LCD screen.

With the Respironics its a matter of unplugging, plugging back in and pressing button. Not a REAL HASSLE but extra wear and tear on the cord and plug.

The software does provide some extra data. Via the LCD screen you get just the 95th or 90th percentile of Pressure and Leak whilst via the software you get the Median, 95th or 90th percentile and Maxium Pressure and Leak. Its been quite a while since I've used the EncorePro software. I found it more difficult to install (but I'm not particularly good w/puters) and the data not as easy to understand as w/the easier to install Resmed software (but there again since I've more experience w/the Resmed software it stands to reason I'd be more comfortable w/it). The Respironics software does have ONE feature that I wish the Resmed software produced: the Daily Events Per Hour table.

Until I got my software for the two brands I used to chart my daily LCD screen data as follows:

Wed - 25 Oct 06 - Pressure: 5.6 - Leak: 0.42 - AHI: 4.3 - AI: 0.08 - HI: 3.5 - Used: 00090 hrs - Usage: 0017/0017 nts - Day: 4.4 hrs - Plus any notes I felt might be pertinent

Others use Excel and I've been playing w/trying to learn to use Excel. I haven't used a spreadsheet since Lotus 1-2-3!!!!

[Slinky]

Fer crying out loud, theDean!!!

... I don't have all my numbers (I will as soon as they send me the complete sleep study results), but the prescription is for BiPAP at 14/11 ...

It would seem OBVIOUS that NightJar didn't know yet what the indications for a bi-level were since he didn't have the complete results yet. Now I see NightJar has answered your question. Are you satisfied yet?

NightJar, my apologies for the controversy but theDean has a knack for discouraging newbies from wanting a better xPAP and disparages much of the advice given by our forum members and gets a little exaspirating now and then. He appears to be a DME supplier who prefers that patients receive the cheapest device that will do the job and begrudge the patients any of the extra options available.

[nightjar]

Thanks for the detailed reply, Slinky. That gives me an ideal of what I can expect.

Does the LCD readout on the Respironics show the Events Per Hour figure? (I need to take another look at the PDF of that manual, don't I?)

It's good to know that there's something in the programs that goes beyond what the readout shows; too bad my old PC runs Windows NT 4.0, or I'd be able to install the software on it. Oh, well--I'll just have to remember to write it all down. . . .

Thanks again!

nath

[carbonman]

what I "don't" like is the power brick.

.......UH oh.........here it comes......

wait for it........


...................wait for it..........................

[deerslayer]

ya, lov da M series un da Blue Lights

[dsm]

If I had a choice between the two, I'd be a bit stuck because I like them both. By both I too agree with Slinky re the pre M series 'tank' Bipap Auto (I do have one of them Bipap Auto w/Biflex even though I now use a Bipap AutoSV).

Price might be the deciding factor that sent me one way or the other. There was a time I might have had an issue with the lack of any ability on the Respironics Bipap Auto, to set the epap-ipap gap to a fixed value but in using the Bipap Auto w/Biflex (which I did for a short time) , that never bothered me. It starts at 2 CMs by default and adjusts based on detected events.

Interestingly I have some of the Tranquilty machines (kind of came my way over time) - The Bilevel, The Auto & the Quest Cpap. They provide very good therapy & I regard them as leaders in their day (they go back a few years now). Certainly not as quite as the latest xPAPs are becoming.

Good luck

DSM

Healthdyne Bilevel, Auto & Quest Photos ...

http://www.internetage.ws/cpapinfo/heal ... vel-dis-1/
http://www.internetage.ws/cpapinfo/heal ... uto-dis-1/
http://www.internetage.ws/cpapinfo/heal ... est-dis-1/

I had to clean coffee out of the quest - seems someone had upended a cup of it onto the machine. Still runs well
- see photo 8 of the quest set. Shows traces of the coffee plus get a load of the clip that holds the air hose on. My
car also uses them for the radiator hoses - that was the one thing that really surprised me re their construction.

[nightjar]

Price might be the deciding factor that sent me one way or the other. There was a time I might have had an issue with the lack of any ability on the Respironics Bipap Auto, to set the epap-ipap gap to a fixed value but in using the Bipap Auto w/Biflex (which I did for a short time) , that never bothered me. It starts at 2 CMs by default and adjusts based on detected events.

Interestingly I have some of the Tranquilty machines (kind of came my way over time) - The Bilevel, The Auto & the Quest Cpap. They provide very good therapy & I regard them as leaders in their day (they go back a few years now). Certainly not as quite as the latest xPAPs are becoming.

Healthdyne Bilevel, Auto & Quest Photos ... I had to clean coffee out of the quest - seems someone had upended a cup of it onto the machine. Still runs well - see photo 8 of the quest set. Shows traces of the coffee plus get a load of the clip that holds the air hose on. My car also uses them for the radiator hoses - that was the one thing that really surprised me re their construction.

Thanks, DSM. I sure am learning more about how the BiPAP Auto works!

HealthDyne--yes, I'd been to your site and seen the pics--I missed the coffee stain, though! The inside of my 7300 looks a bit different than yours; I'm pretty sure it doesn't have the radiator clamps, and I think there may be some difference in wiring.

In mine, the power line comes from the back to the switch in the front, and then to a green module toward the back of the upper board. If I turn the Quest off in the middle of the night, it won't come back on for a while. I can hear the green module make a little clicking noise, much like a solenoid in an automobile's starter. The blower motor sounds fine, though, and I think if I could just replace that green module, the thing would run forever. As it is, it works fine when I first turn it on at night, so I'm hoping it continues to work as a backup once I get the BiPAP!

It sure is fun to see the innards of these machines, isn't it?

Take care,

nath

[dsm]

Nath,

Must confess it took me about 2 years to slow down on getting various types & models & pulling them apart. I actually have a couple that I haven't tried to dismantle yet but would have done so with haste back awhile. I have taken the top off the Bipap AutoSV but it looked exactly like the Bipap S/T so I didn't go any further & as yet I haven't taken the Vpap Adapt SV apart, even to look at its innovative dual impeller blower

A lot of the investigating was looking at the various stages of the technology as that put real perspective on the various announcements and introductions. The other thing that has always caught my attention is how innovative Puritan Bennett have been yet they don't have a big market share. Their blowers were way ahead of the others until Resmed introduced the dual-impeller blower models.

Respironics really did some very innovative stuff in the Bilevel area. The airvalve that controls the direction of the air is a really clever bit of work but sadly now too expensive to put into current models other than the Bipap SV, Bipap Avaps & Bipap Synchrony (all specialist units).

F&P are the hands down winners for humidifiers & integrated heated hoses.

Each company seems to have or had something that makes (made) them stand out.

DSM