Help w/full face 432 & stuffy nose/dry mouth

[GREGLYE]

My husband asked me to find a solution, so I registered him on here and am posting for the first time on his/our account.
(I don't know much about all this CPAP talk....heck, I don't even use the thing!!!!!.....so forgive me if my post is TOO newbie-ish.)

The first night I ever slept with him I told him he had sleep apnea (it was all VERY romantic....really! ). He had never heard of it and was very skeptical. I finally video taped him snoring and showed him how he'd stop breathing and sit bolt upright. He was really surprised. He always thought that all the times he woke up in the middle of the night were to go to the bathroom ("well, I woke up for no reason, so I *MUST* have to go to the bathroom"). I swear, he's like sleeping with a pregnant woman....at least 5 trips a night! LOL

He's retired military and is treated at the VA for asthma, allergies, etc. They did a sleep study, diagnosed him with SA and gave him a Respironics M-Series 1022334 CPAP and a Fisher & Paykel 432 full face mask. He has a deviated septum and always has to breathe thru his mouth. He also has a mustache and goatee.

He is 6'2" at about 250ish lbs. He lost about 20 lbs recently and the snoring/apnea episodes went waaaay down. He's since gained the weight back (I think that's due to some other meds that he takes) and the snoring/apnea is back with a vengeance. I use earplugs for the snoring, but each time he stops breathing he jumps and that shakes the whole bed. There's no sleeping thru THAT!

Finally, this past week I told him that he has to start using the CPAP again because I was DYING from lack of sleep (I'm on meds that screw with my sleep, so it's VERY hard for me to get to sleep....even with the darned Lunesta every night!!!) OK, so he uses it and it was great....for me.

This morning, after 2 or 3 nights of using it, he said that he remembers why he didn't like using it. He wakes up with a stuffed up nose and his mouth dry as a bone. He sounded terrible this morning...like he had a really bad cold. He's usually a little stuffy/sneezy in the mornings anyway, but the CPAP makes it much worse. He uses the humidifier....but I have no clue what it's set on. Like I said....I don't really know anything about this.....I'm just trying to find a fix for him.

I suggest a little Vicks just on the outer nostrils....that's my dad's favorite remedy. I have a NeliMed Sinus Wash bottle that I used when my sinuses were acting up one time.....blech!!! I think it's icky and gross....but it really helped clear my sinuses up, so I'd do it again (under duress) if I needed to. He, however, took one look at that thing and said "NO FREAKING WAY!!!" and wouldn't even try it. I don't even know if it WOULD help this problem.....

Anyway, either he's miserable using the CPAP or I'm miserable from lack of sleep (and separate sleeping is not an option......it took me half a lifetime to find him!!)

Any help with this would be GREATLY appreciated! That way we could BOTH be not-miserable at the same time!!!
TIA!
-Dawn
Happily married to Jim in Central Texas

[Wulfman]

Hi Dawn.

Welcome to the forum.
If his humidifier is turned up too high, it can actually cause more congestion. Since the very beginning, I've been using cold (distilled) water in my humidifier and NO HEAT.....it's called "pass-over" mode. I also have had restricted/congested nasal passages and the cold air helps to shrink the tissues in my nasal passages and really helps me breathe through my nose. It's also important to get the nasal passages as un-congested as possible before going to bed.
I've occasionally used a (very) small coating of Vick's or Mentholatum in my nose in my first year to help open things up a bit.

There should be a model name on the top of his machine. The number you listed doesn't tell me which model it is.

Good luck to you and Jim.

Den

[gsbuck]

Hi, I'm still somewhat of a newbie, been on cpap for about 3 weeks now. This forum is a great place to learn and discuss yours and your husband's cpap problems. I also have had the problem with the stuffy nose and especially sneezing and blowing my nose constantly since starting cpap, and it's very frustrating.
My husband is also on cpap, and has been for about 6 years. I've discovered he is not pro-active in his health care, and that includes the cpap, even tho he won't be without it even a night. He claims the humidifier causes his sinuses to act up, so he really never gave it much of a chance. I don't understand how he makes it without it. He complains about his nose being sore, etc., but he does feel better, and recognizes that, so he continues using the cpap. I, like you, discovered his sleep apnea and it took about 2 yrs to convince him to go for a sleep study.
After approx 5 years he started complaining about my snoring, but said I didn't hold my breath or gasp, so I didn't consider myself as having sleep apnea. I went to a sleep doc just to find a way to stop snoring, and wound up having the sleep study. As it turns out, the doctor said I have severe SA, and put me on the cpap. So you may want to get checked yourself, and not depend on hubby to tell you anything if he's like mine.
Back to the stuffy nose: After posting for help on this forum, I was advised all kinds of things. One is not to use any petroleum based products that would touch the nasal pillows as it will degrade the plastic material. I would think Vicks is petroleum based, but not sure. I was advised to use something like Ayr's nasal saline gel with aloe on my nostrils and it has been very good advice. It didn't really help the sneezing, but it does soothe the outer nostrils from irritation. Also the Ayr nasal saline spray is good for moisturizing the nasal passages. After the 1st 2 nights using the cpap without humidity I was sneezing and blowing for about 4 days, still using cpap tho at night, experimenting with the humidity. I was also told to use the humidifier, which I balked at some at since my DH's bad experience; and when I tried it I would get condensation in the nosepiece which would wake me up blowing into my nose. Gradually the sneezing and stuff nose cleared up, for a few days. So I stopped using the humidifier again. Not good. Yesterday I started the nasal congestion and sneezing again. In the meantime I ordered a hose cover for the 6' piece of hose to the cpap. It did nothing for the condensation problem when I used the humidifier, even tho I put it on the floor to help keep condensation at a minimum. Other forum users suggested that I cover every piece of hose, even on the headgear and nosepieces. So yesterday I did cover every piece of hose and the nosepieces. This was not pretty or sewn, just makeshift, wrapped and held together with paper clips, ribbon, packaging tape, and rubber bands as needed. Some have suggested inserting absorbent material inside the nosepiece ,(not all nosepieces are conducive to this), to absorb and condensation in the nosepiece caused by the exhaled air. I'm in the process of figuring out how to do that to my pieces. However, last night I did have the headgear hose covered, as well as a little 'jacket' on the nosepiece, had the heated humidifier set on 1, had the cpap on the floor, and had no condensation to deal with at all during the night.
To break all this down for you,
1) cover all the hoses with a fleece-like material, even the headgear.
2) cover the nosepiece with this fabric, also. (I used a piece of the "Sham-Wow" material I just had laying around).
3) Stop using the Vicks and get something petroleum free.
4) Use the heated humidifier, experimenting with the setting.
5) Give it a few days to work.
I found my 6' hose cover on ebay, but have been told there is a forum user who can help with that, too. For other helpful accessories there is http://www.padacheek.com, she is a forum/cpap user, too.
Tell your husband that many of us use the cpap even with the nasal congestion. The machine is kind of like magic in that it blows right thru the congestion without the user feeling it at all, at least that's my experience.
Hope this helps a little.

[GREGLYE]

Hi Dawn.

Welcome to the forum.
If his humidifier is turned up too high, it can actually cause more congestion. Since the very beginning, I've been using cold (distilled) water in my humidifier and NO HEAT.....it's called "pass-over" mode. I also have had restricted/congested nasal passages and the cold air helps to shrink the tissues in my nasal passages and really helps me breathe through my nose. It's also important to get the nasal passages as un-congested as possible before going to bed.
I've occasionally used a (very) small coating of Vick's or Mentholatum in my nose in my first year to help open things up a bit.

There should be a model name on the top of his machine. The number you listed doesn't tell me which model it is.

Good luck to you and Jim.

Den

Den,
I went in and added his machine to the sig line. Here, I thought I was given the REALLY good info off the bottom instead of the top! His machine is a REMstar Auto M Series with C-Flex (whatever the heck THAT is!! ) Does that help? This is the first machine we've ever seen, so we don't even know where it rates on the "Really Cheap-Really HiTech" scale. The lady at the VA said that they just started giving these out and that they were really great. I think it's highly unlikely she'd say anything else! LOL!
I'll have all these posts ready for him to browse over when he gets home from work today.
Thanks!!!!!
-Dawn

[GREGLYE]

Hi, I'm still somewhat of a newbie, been on cpap for about 3 weeks now. This forum is a great place to learn and discuss yours and your husband's cpap problems. I also have had the problem with the stuffy nose and especially sneezing and blowing my nose constantly since starting cpap, and it's very frustrating.
<snip>
Back to the stuffy nose: After posting for help on this forum, I was advised all kinds of things. One is not to use any petroleum based products that would touch the nasal pillows as it will degrade the plastic material. I would think Vicks is petroleum based, but not sure.

He has a full face mask because he's a mouth breather. They do have 'greaseless' Vicks now....but, yes, petroleum+plastic/rubber=NOT GOOD! I have a thing about ANY petroleum products anyway. I think baby oil is hideous...it's MINERAL OIL.....that's a petroleum based oil! It's actually a byproduct of making gasoline! BLECH!!! (person rant....I'm done now)

I was advised to use something like Ayr's nasal saline gel with aloe on my nostrils and it has been very good advice. It didn't really help the sneezing, but it does soothe the outer nostrils from irritation. Also the Ayr nasal saline spray is good for moisturizing the nasal passages. After the 1st 2 nights using the cpap without humidity I was sneezing and blowing for about 4 days, still using cpap tho at night, experimenting with the humidity. I was also told to use the humidifier, which I balked at some at since my DH's bad experience; and when I tried it I would get condensation in the nosepiece which would wake me up blowing into my nose. Gradually the sneezing and stuff nose cleared up, for a few days. So I stopped using the humidifier again. Not good. Yesterday I started the nasal congestion and sneezing again. In the meantime I ordered a hose cover for the 6' piece of hose to the cpap. It did nothing for the condensation problem when I used the humidifier, even tho I put it on the floor to help keep condensation at a minimum. Other forum users suggested that I cover every piece of hose, even on the headgear and nosepieces. So yesterday I did cover every piece of hose and the nosepieces. This was not pretty or sewn, just makeshift, wrapped and held together with paper clips, ribbon, packaging tape, and rubber bands as needed.

Awesome!! I love a good McGyver set up!! LOL! He's never said anything about it raining in this face mask....I'll have to ask him about this. If need be, I'll knit him a cover made of wool and felt it....that's very insulating! (I love to knit...and felting is awesome!!!)

Some have suggested inserting absorbent material inside the nosepiece ,(not all nosepieces are conducive to this), to absorb and condensation in the nosepiece caused by the exhaled air. I'm in the process of figuring out how to do that to my pieces.
<snip>

I took a look at your nosepiece. Boy, that's one dead-sexy piece of plastic!!! My husband always does the Darth Vader imitation when he puts his facemask on. LOL
May I make a suggestion? Just looking at it.....and not knowing a thing about this stuff, but the first thing that came to my mind was candle wicking. Some heavier cotton candle wicking that's UNTREATED and is ONLY cotton!! Or, you could go to your craft store and get some cotton cord that's used to make the piping around pillows and upholstery. Can you put velcro on the inside of your nosepiece? Maybe one of those small 'dots' that they have to stick on places. The cotton would stick to that and you could easily change it for cleaning purposes. Plus the velcro will help keep you from suffocating in your sleep when you inhale a piece of cotton cord right up your nose! LOL! That would seriously be UN-COOL!!!

To break all this down for you,
1) cover all the hoses with a fleece-like material, even the headgear.
2) cover the nosepiece with this fabric, also. (I used a piece of the "Sham-Wow" material I just had laying around).
3) Stop using the Vicks and get something petroleum free.
4) Use the heated humidifier, experimenting with the setting.
5) Give it a few days to work.
I found my 6' hose cover on ebay, but have been told there is a forum user who can help with that, too. For other helpful accessories there is http://www.padacheek.com, she is a forum/cpap user, too.
Tell your husband that many of us use the cpap even with the nasal congestion. The machine is kind of like magic in that it blows right thru the congestion without the user feeling it at all, at least that's my experience.
Hope this helps a little.

Yep! It helps a lot!
I don't think it's while he's actually using the machine that it's bothering him, but the stuffiness when he wakes up is worse than 'normal' for him.
I'll give him all your suggestions!
Thanks!!!
-Dawn

[Wulfman]

Hi Dawn.

Welcome to the forum.
If his humidifier is turned up too high, it can actually cause more congestion. Since the very beginning, I've been using cold (distilled) water in my humidifier and NO HEAT.....it's called "pass-over" mode. I also have had restricted/congested nasal passages and the cold air helps to shrink the tissues in my nasal passages and really helps me breathe through my nose. It's also important to get the nasal passages as un-congested as possible before going to bed.
I've occasionally used a (very) small coating of Vick's or Mentholatum in my nose in my first year to help open things up a bit.

There should be a model name on the top of his machine. The number you listed doesn't tell me which model it is.

Good luck to you and Jim.

Den

Den,
I went in and added his machine to the sig line. Here, I thought I was given the REALLY good info off the bottom instead of the top! His machine is a REMstar Auto M Series with C-Flex (whatever the heck THAT is!! ) Does that help? This is the first machine we've ever seen, so we don't even know where it rates on the "Really Cheap-Really HiTech" scale. The lady at the VA said that they just started giving these out and that they were really great. I think it's highly unlikely she'd say anything else! LOL!
I'll have all these posts ready for him to browse over when he gets home from work today.
Thanks!!!!!
-Dawn

He got a "GOOD" machine!!! It's a fully data-capable auto-adjusting machine.

If they didn't give you the setup instruction card to get into the machine configuration, I'm listing the instructions below.
I'd suggest going into the setup and writing down all of the settings so that you'll (both) know how it is configured. If they have it set up in Auto mode with the pressure range wide open (4 - 20), that usually does not make for good therapy. The minimum pressure needs to be set high enough to where it can more readily respond to events. If your husband still snores a lot, leaving the maximum pressure at 20 may not be a good idea either.
On the other hand, that machine could have been (or can be) set to straight pressure (CPAP) mode.
If/when you go into the setup, if you turn on the following feature, you'll be able to see some of the statistics each morning.
Show AHI/Leak Feature = On

Den


Menu for M Series Auto

1. Hold down the <- -> buttons while plugging in the power on the back, wait for 2 beeps, release buttons.
2. Press the + key. <- -> buttons move to next field, -/+ keys decrement/increment
3. Check the following field(s):

-Therapy Mode = (CPAP/Auto)
-Auto:Max = (default=20.0cm)
-Auto:Min = (default=4.0cm)
-C-Flex Setting = 2 (options are off, 1, 2 or 3)
-AutoRamp Time = (options are 05 to 45 min)
-AutoRamp Pressure = cm (4cm->AutoMin)
-Mask Alert Feature = On (On/Off)
-Auto Off Feature = Off (On/off)
-Split Night Time = Off (off, 120, 180, 240)
-Show AHI/Leak Feature = On (On/Off)
Press On/Off button to exit.




==========Resetting LCD Display Data====================

To reset LCD Therapy data (does NOT erase any data from SmartCard):

1. Hold down the (<-) (->) buttons while plugging in the power on the back, wait for 2 beeps or 5 seconds, release buttons.
2. Press the (->) key and navigate to Therapy screen.
3. Press and HOLD down the (-) minus key for 5 seconds and/or until therapy data is reset to Zero.
4. Press the (->) key to scroll back to main menu, press (+) key to enter Setup or
On/Off button to exit.

[CorgiGirl]

Just to provide a different viewpoint -- I'm the opposite of Wulfman and I've found that not enough humidification makes me stuffy. Turning the humidifier off made it worse for me. I tried up on 5 just to see what happened. I got too warm, but never did get stuffy. Everybody's different, so your husband will have to experiment to figure out what works best for him. I haven't tried the Ayr gel yet, but I'm going to get some today, if I can find it.

For the dry mouth, I've been using Biotene mouthwash at night. It's specifically formulated to help with dry mouth. I found it at a local drug store, so it's easy to find. It works well for me and for several others on the board.

Good luck!

[GREGLYE]

He got a "GOOD" machine!!! It's a fully data-capable auto-adjusting machine.

GREAT!! It's good to know that.

If they didn't give you the setup instruction card to get into the machine configuration, I'm listing the instructions below.

She gave us the whole book, bag, etc etc. He sat down a read the maual....but I saw his eyes glazing over. LOL. I glanced at the thing and thought "OMG!!! I'm so glad I don't have to be the one to screw around with this thing!!!!!" We are both gadget geeks.....but this thing is a whole 'nother ball of wax!

I'd suggest going into the setup and writing down all of the settings so that you'll (both) know how it is configured. If they have it set up in Auto mode with the pressure range wide open (4 - 20), that usually does not make for good therapy. The minimum pressure needs to be set high enough to where it can more readily respond to events. If your husband still snores a lot, leaving the maximum pressure at 20 may not be a good idea either.
On the other hand, that machine could have been (or can be) set to straight pressure (CPAP) mode.
If/when you go into the setup, if you turn on the following feature, you'll be able to see some of the statistics each morning.
Show AHI/Leak Feature = On

Den
<snip>

-Therapy Mode = (CPAP/Auto)
-Auto:Max = (default=20.0cm)
-Auto:Min = (default=4.0cm)
-C-Flex Setting = 2 (options are off, 1, 2 or 3)
-AutoRamp Time = (options are 05 to 45 min)
-AutoRamp Pressure = cm (4cm->AutoMin)
-Mask Alert Feature = On (On/Off)
-Auto Off Feature = Off (On/off)
-Split Night Time = Off (off, 120, 180, 240)
-Show AHI/Leak Feature = On (On/Off)
Press On/Off button to exit.

Here are his settings:-
Therapy Mode = Auto
-Auto:Max = 16.0cm
-Auto:Min = 6.0cm
-C-Flex Setting = 3
-AutoRamp Time = 10 min
-AutoRamp Pressure = 4cm
-Mask Alert Feature = Off
-Auto Off Feature = Off
-Split Night Time = Off
-Show AHI/Leak Feature = On

==========Resetting LCD Display Data====================

To reset LCD Therapy data (does NOT erase any data from SmartCard):

1. Hold down the (<-) (->) buttons while plugging in the power on the back, wait for 2 beeps or 5 seconds, release buttons.
2. Press the (->) key and navigate to Therapy screen.
3. Press and HOLD down the (-) minus key for 5 seconds and/or until therapy data is reset to Zero.
4. Press the (->) key to scroll back to main menu, press (+) key to enter Setup or
On/Off button to exit.

I didn't even go into any of that.
They gave him the machine last spring and he has an appointment at the VA to be re-evaluated...or have his SmartCard check....or his oil changed....or whatever it is that they do......on 13FEB09. She told him that she would make adjustments on it then after she read his card. She did tell him that it would be a long haul getting used to it and getting it 'just right' and that people don't just take to a CPAP after 2 or 3 nights. She said it was common for people to take well over 6 months to be able to go thru the whole night with it on.
-Dawn

[Wulfman]

HOLY SMOKES! A whole year (or nearly) between him getting the machine and the first "evaluation"??????
No wonder they think it takes a long time to get used to it. Yes, there are folks who do have a longer "learning curve" or "acceptance/adaptability curve", but if you only see people once a year??? AARRRGGGGHHHHH!!!

The sooner a person takes control of their OWN therapy, the faster they'll adapt. It is, after all, OUR THERAPY......not the medical professionals who hand this stuff out and think we're too stupid to take charge of it. It would be like saying......"Here's your new car.....but you have to ride in the back seat or the passenger side for a year until you get used to it while I drive. You never will get to drive it, but I'll tell you what it's like."
You gotta learn to DRIVE!

< steps off soapbox >

Den

[cflame1]

Is he using his ramp?

[crazy4cougars]

My husband asked me to find a solution, so I registered him on here and am posting for the first time on his/our account.

He's retired military and is treated at the VA for asthma, allergies, etc. They did a sleep study, diagnosed him with SA and gave him a Respironics M-Series 1022334 CPAP and a Fisher & Paykel 432 full face mask. He has a deviated septum and always has to breathe thru his mouth. He also has a mustache and goatee.

He is 6'2" at about 250ish lbs. He lost about 20 lbs recently and the snoring/apnea episodes went waaaay down. He's since gained the weight back (I think that's due to some other meds that he takes) and the snoring/apnea is back with a vengeance. I use earplugs for the snoring, but each time he stops breathing he jumps and that shakes the whole bed. There's no sleeping thru THAT!

Finally, this past week I told him that he has to start using the CPAP again because I was DYING from lack of sleep (I'm on meds that screw with my sleep, so it's VERY hard for me to get to sleep....even with the darned Lunesta every night!!!) OK, so he uses it and it was great....for me.

This morning, after 2 or 3 nights of using it, he said that he remembers why he didn't like using it. He wakes up with a stuffed up nose and his mouth dry as a bone.

I suggest a little Vicks just on the outer nostrils....that's my dad's favorite remedy. I have a NeliMed Sinus Wash bottle that I used when my sinuses were acting up one time.....

Any help with this would be GREATLY appreciated! That way we could BOTH be not-miserable at the same time!!!
TIA!
-Dawn
Happily married to Jim in Central Texas

Hi Dawn, There are some great suggestions here on this post. I have been using a CPAP going on 8 years now. As soon as I found the right fitting mask, I never took it off. It has been a life saver.

I would like to say that I have had all the problems your husband is having. I too am heavy and I have a full face beard. In case any one is wondering how the masks fit with a beard on. I have never had any issues with the mask I am wearing as having a seal or not.

I did have issues with a stuffy nose going to bed and was afraid that I wouldn't sleep well. I tried the vix thing and few other rubs but they didn't work too well. By the way, it is true to not use petroleum on the mask but it doesn't hurt to use it inside your nose. I do quite often and have never had any issues degrading the mask. Just be careful on how sloopy one gets with it!

My doctor prescribed me with a nasal spray that he says was made just for CPAP users. Not sure if that is true, but it works. That is one route your husband can go. It is not messy and one or two shots each evening about an hour before going to bed and it keeps me breathing free each night. Exception though when I had the flu or other colds a time or two. The other great thing is to use the humidifier. I have tried both using heat and cold water. When its hot outside I use the cold method. When it's cold outside, I use the heat method but only on low. Seems to work ok with me.

Each person is different so you have to treat the symptoms for each person. If all else fails, get back with the doctor who prescribed the CPAP to him and discuss some options. Good luck!

[Virtus Velox]

lil bump here...I have the deviated septum as well. My RT suggested that I still try the nasal mask. Had dry mouth, checked CPAPTalk and read up on taping. Frankly the discussion freaked me out...but apnea freaked me even worse, so I gave it a try. Outstanding results!
Might cost your DH his fine facial hair collection but the difference is something he will tell you about. Hope this helps.

**side note here; it was a poignant statement you made about how long it took for you two to find one another and that different beds were out of the question...he is a VERY fortunate man to have such support.**

"Any man who doesn't realize he married up, is a fool." author unknown
Virt

[GREGLYE Hubby]

OK I've finally gotten"some" of my honey do list done and I wanted to at least post a thank you to all of you for your help. I have been frustrated with the way the machine has been working and it's good to know that there are both, people who have the same problems and people who have some answers to help. I really want to thank Dawn, when I asked her to find some answers for some problems I didn't think she would tap into such a great source. I had no dought she'd find answers though. Long story short she has given me everything to include the answers that life can be fun, caring and wonderful, so yes I married up,lol. I count my blessings every day and she is at the top of that list, and all my other lists and reasons for being. I have read and read again all the posts, and every one has something for me to put into my bag of tricks to make it work for us. I've started using the mouth wash (has a great taste), I'm playing with the settings on the humidifier (I was using on or off, now I'll tweak here and there, I stared back at 1), haven't had the rain in the mask yet but maybe it's because of my beard I did have once a REALLY wet beard, Yes I'm using the ramp, I think if I didn't I'd wake up on the ceiling being blown up like a balloon, lol. Tapping almost scares me, but will keep it in mind. So again thank you all, and I will keep you all posted on how it is going and I will browse the posts to see if what we learn will help other newbies.
Thanks
Jim