Newbie on AVAPS

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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dsm
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Re: Newbie on AVAPS

Post by dsm » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:20 pm

Snoredog

AVAPS is a variant of the Bipap Auto SV. It is made by Respironics & internally is the same physical appearance as the Bipap S/T & Bipap SV
but has a different algorithm for Average Volume Assured Pressure Support.

Respironics:
AVAPS = http://bipapavaps.respironics.com/
AUTO SV = http://bipapautosv.respironics.com/
BIPAP ST = http://bipapst.respironics.com/

Resmed
VPAP SV = http://www.resmed.com/en-us/products/fl ... u=products


So both banned & I have considered that the pressure support from the Resmed Vpap Adapt SV may not be the best (for us) - for reasons someone
else might better explain we find that although the Resmed SV machine does its job, we don't get the depth of sleep we get from the Respironics
SV / AVAPS machines. I have some theories on why but am flying in the dark as to the real reason this occurs for some of us. I know other
people who also say the sleep lightly when using the Vpap Adapt SV.

The early model Vpap Adapt SV didn't provide AHI data. The later model introduced some months back does. But when you get used
to these machines, the tidal flow, MV and breathing rate tell the more compelling story. Combined with data from an occasional
monitoring with a recording SpO2 machine, a very good picture can be seen.

My own personal opinion is that the way the Bipap Auto SV works, is absolutely the state-of-the-art in advanced xPAP design & therapy
delivery. The satisfaction from using it and the daily results, far outstrip (for me) any other type of xPAP. I am in little doubt that its
mode of operation would help many people past that phase where their therapy seems to do great for a few months but then deteriorates.

The very nature of the machine is that it provides the best exhale relief of any type of machine, it monitors each and every breath and
can within one breath gently boost pressure within that breath. Respironics are on to a very interesting theme with this machine.

DSM
xPAP and Quattro std mask (plus a pad-a-cheek anti-leak strap)

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Re: Newbie on AVAPS

Post by Banned » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:26 pm

Snoredog wrote: Doug,
I knew the Bipap Auto SV reported AHI on the reports, I wasn't sure on the AVAPS, I am assuming that is Resmed version?

I thought you mentioned a while back when you tried that one it was difficult because it didn't give AHI info? But maybe that was the earlier version of the Adapt SV. So in the absence of that, I asked Banned how he determined if he was improving with the settings used other than the subjective way you feel. But if it does give that info like the Bipap then that answers that question.
Snoredog,

I'm sure AVAPS records all data points that the BiPAP Auto SV records including AHI. I'm waiting on the Respironics USB Card Reader and I will be able to post results.

I never had further turbinate surgery because I don't want empty nose sydrome and It's just somethihng I choose to live with. I never considered tounge blockage.

AVAPS is interesting but may not be my machine of choice. SV-AVAPS mode. It really doesn't adequately my address periodic breathing (even with a timed rate) as I do seem to need the 'pulsing' in real-time, on a breath-by- breath basis, to mitigate those issues.

AVAPS has been an education, so I will keep spinning the dials. I'm not spinning up the Tidal Volume.

So is the Tidal Volume really 'TV' or 'Tv'? On the AVAPS unit it is Tv.

Where is that SV-AVAPS mode?

Banned
AVAPS: PC AVAPS, EPAP 15, IPAP Min 19, IPAP Max 25, Vt 520ml, BPM 10, Ti 1.8sec, RT 2 (Garage)
BiPAP Auto SV: EPAP 9, IPAP Min 14, IPAP Max 25, BPM 10, Ti 2sec, RT 2 (Travel Machine)
VPAP Adapt SV: EEP 10.4, Min PS 4.4 (Every Day)
Mask: Quattro

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Snoredog
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Re: Newbie on AVAPS

Post by Snoredog » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:36 pm

hey I admit I didn't even know there was a AVAPS,

I thought it was something Resmed had come out with, I haven't seen the AVAPS for sale, guess I'll have to read up on that one.
someday science will catch up to what I'm saying...

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dsm
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Re: Newbie on AVAPS

Post by dsm » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:14 pm

Banned,

You know what we really want

We want the Bipap S/T, SV, AVAPS, base unit (am sure they are all the same hardware) plus we want the ability to write our own mods to the
software to mix n match function & features for our own experimentation.

Just imagine being given a software program to run on a PC that allows you to make changes to the algorithms such as adding AVAPS capabilty
to SV capability & be able to tune the variations & trial them in a simulator then load the result into the machine.

For me, that would be the most interesting development in the evolution of xPAP therapy, build your own algorithm based on existing
proven modules of code. I know developers who do this with mobile WM5 & WM6 smartphones, they tailor a 'ROM' based on a preferred
set of features and they offer their variants of the 'ROM' to anyone willing to try them out.

Having programmed real-time mission critical systems in the past, I could get very interested in doing that type of work on xPAPs.

DSM
xPAP and Quattro std mask (plus a pad-a-cheek anti-leak strap)

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Re: Newbie on AVAPS

Post by Banned » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:31 pm

Snoredog wrote:hey I admit I didn't even know there was a AVAPS,

I thought it was something Resmed had come out with, I haven't seen the AVAPS for sale, guess I'll have to read up on that one.
I think I must be the only person on the planet with a AVAPS device. The rest of the AVAPS devices are probably dust magnets in Indiana Jones' lost-Arc Warehouse. SAG and RG suggested that I should first have a volume problem problem before I look for a volume solution. Heck, that was like waving a red flag in front of me to go out and get an AVAPS device!

1. Provide a optimal Average Tidal Volume without concomitant lung over-distention.
2. Mitigate periodic breathing associated with CSDB (Complex Sleep Disordered Breathing) and CSA (Central Sleep Apnea).
3. Mitigate upper airway anomolies including, but not limited to turbinate and septum restrictions.
4. Provide a solution for restrictive patients.
5. Provide a solution for COPD patients.
6. Provide a solution for CSR (Cheyenne Stokes Respiration) that may out-perform the SV.
7. (Possibly, but not confirmed) Provide a solution for morbidly obese patients.

This was my earlier summary of what I thought AVAPS could accomplish. I would probably have to eliminate Item 2 and Item 3 from the list.

Banned
Last edited by Banned on Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
AVAPS: PC AVAPS, EPAP 15, IPAP Min 19, IPAP Max 25, Vt 520ml, BPM 10, Ti 1.8sec, RT 2 (Garage)
BiPAP Auto SV: EPAP 9, IPAP Min 14, IPAP Max 25, BPM 10, Ti 2sec, RT 2 (Travel Machine)
VPAP Adapt SV: EEP 10.4, Min PS 4.4 (Every Day)
Mask: Quattro

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rested gal
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Re: Newbie on AVAPS

Post by rested gal » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:31 am

Banned wrote:SAG and RG suggested that I should first have a volume problem problem before I look for a volume solution.
I can't speak for SAG (StillAnotherGuest) but that's not quiiiiite what I've said. Close, but not quite. I've said "You have to know what needs treating before you try to treat it." And yeah, I picked that (or words to that effect) up from SAG.

Granted, sometimes "what needs treating" is revealed by simply trying a treatment that ends up working well. But even then, effective treatment might not be for the reason a person thinks.

Sometimes xpap machines we think didn't treat something well would have treated it well if set properly in the first place. Or would have if other factors (masks or leaks, for example) were optimized.

Whatever the reason, I'm glad you're happy with your machine, Banned.
Banned wrote:6. Provide a solution for CSR (Cheyenne Stokes Respiration) that may out-perform the SV.
I seriously doubt that, but I'm not an expert.
ResMed S9 VPAP Auto (ASV)
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Nothing Like Science, I Always Say...

Post by StillAnotherGuest » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:58 am

Banned wrote:SAG and RG suggested that I should first have a volume problem problem before I look for a volume solution. Heck, that was like waving a red flag in front of me to go out and get an AVAPS device!
Then I guess it was a good thing that SAG didn't say that you won't improve your AHI by poking a rattlesnake with a fork.

SAG
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Aromatherapy may help CPAP compliance. Lavender, Mandarin, Chamomile, and Sweet Marjoram aid in relaxation and sleep. Nature's Gift has these and a blend of all four called SleepEase.

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Re: Newbie on AVAPS

Post by -SWS » Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:14 am

dsm wrote:We want the Bipap S/T, SV, AVAPS, base unit (am sure they are all the same hardware) plus we want the ability to write our own mods to the
software to mix n match function & features for our own experimentation.
Many of us have been wondering why the heck manufacturers of biomedical equipment didn't just employ open source code from the very get-go. That way avid hobbyists of the medical arts would have a much easier time treating the general public with their own favorite medicinal hacks.

What on earth were those nutty manufacturers thinking when they secured their FDA-submitted algorithms for no good reason??? High-end cardiopulmonary biomed products really ought to be treated like public-domain consumer electronics. Those stinkin' corporate bastards!

J/K

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Re: Newbie on AVAPS

Post by dsm » Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:59 pm

-SWS wrote:
dsm wrote:We want the Bipap S/T, SV, AVAPS, base unit (am sure they are all the same hardware) plus we want the ability to write our own mods to the
software to mix n match function & features for our own experimentation.
Many of us have been wondering why the heck manufacturers of biomedical equipment didn't just employ open source code from the very get-go. That way avid hobbyists of the medical arts would have a much easier time treating the general public with their own favorite medicinal hacks.

What on earth were those nutty manufacturers thinking when they secured their FDA-submitted algorithms for no good reason??? High-end cardiopulmonary biomed products really ought to be treated like public-domain consumer electronics. Those stinkin' corporate bastards!

J/K
LOL

Steve, I might have guessed you'd highlight that. Of course there is no way in the world that any mfg of xPAP selling into the FDA regulated US market, could or would put out a machine that users (open source junkies) could tamper with no matter what their motives

But, Ahhh heva dreem - that won daae all code will beh free - free to the or-din-ary pro-grammer man

DSM
xPAP and Quattro std mask (plus a pad-a-cheek anti-leak strap)

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Re: Newbie on AVAPS

Post by rested gal » Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:25 pm

dsm wrote:Of course there is no way in the world that any mfg of xPAP selling into the FDA regulated US market, could or would put out a machine that users (open source junkies) could tamper with no matter what their motives
DSM
To the "no way" they "could" or "would", I'd also add the words "or should"....
ResMed S9 VPAP Auto (ASV)
Humidifier: Integrated + Climate Control hose
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3M painters tape over mouth
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Re: Newbie on AVAPS

Post by dsm » Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:41 pm

rested gal wrote:
dsm wrote:Of course there is no way in the world that any mfg of xPAP selling into the FDA regulated US market, could or would put out a machine that users (open source junkies) could tamper with no matter what their motives
DSM
To the "no way" they "could" or "would", I'd also add the words "or should"....
Yes RG, true

Will just have to keep dreaming - which for me comes easier with the Bipap SV machine

DSM
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Re: Newbie on AVAPS

Post by -SWS » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:01 pm

dsm wrote: But, Ahhh heva dreem - that won daae all code will beh free - free to the or-din-ary pro-grammer man

DSM
Heheh! I hear ya, Doug...

Serious suggestion, though. Why not try to get a dialogue going with Resmed's Sydney office? Ask them if there are product focus groups or research trials that might be suited for someone with your qualifications? First stint may not be your favorite, but inroads are... well, they're inroads leading to a variety of alluring possibilities!

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Re: Newbie on AVAPS

Post by dsm » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:24 pm

-SWS wrote:
dsm wrote: But, Ahhh heva dreem - that won daae all code will beh free - free to the or-din-ary pro-grammer man

DSM
Heheh! I hear ya, Doug...

Serious suggestion, though. Why not try to get a dialogue going with Resmed's Sydney office? Ask them if there are product focus groups or research trials that might be suited for someone with your qualifications? First stint may not be your favorite, but inroads are... well, they're inroads leading to a variety of alluring possibilities!
Steve,

I seriously thought about it a while (year or two) back & even joined their user program but then let it slide. Perhaps I should explore it again.
But, I am not sure they would be too interested in someone who sings the praises of the Resp Bipap SV at the expense of their Vpap Adapt SV

DSM
xPAP and Quattro std mask (plus a pad-a-cheek anti-leak strap)

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Re: Newbie on AVAPS

Post by -SWS » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:34 pm

dsm wrote:But, I am not sure they would be too interested in someone who sings the praises of the Resp Bipap SV at the expense of their Vpap Adapt SV
That may very well turn out to be true, Doug. One other possibility that comes to mind is that they just may be very interested in how/why the Respironics AutoSV seemingly benefits your sleep-related physiology even better than the Resmed AdaptSV.

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Re: Newbie on AVAPS

Post by Banned » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:42 pm

dsm wrote: But, I am not sure they would be too interested in someone who sings the praises of the Resp Bipap SV at the expense of their Vpap Adapt SV
DSM
It probably isn't ResMed that needs the help. If ResMed were to build an AVAPS device I'm sure it would come with more AUTO features, or an AUTO BPM mode at a minimum.

Respironics could certainly add a few basic features to AVAPS to make it a more comfortable machine. AUTO BPM being the first feature.

Banned
AVAPS: PC AVAPS, EPAP 15, IPAP Min 19, IPAP Max 25, Vt 520ml, BPM 10, Ti 1.8sec, RT 2 (Garage)
BiPAP Auto SV: EPAP 9, IPAP Min 14, IPAP Max 25, BPM 10, Ti 2sec, RT 2 (Travel Machine)
VPAP Adapt SV: EEP 10.4, Min PS 4.4 (Every Day)
Mask: Quattro