To All Those having Suffocating, or Out of Breath issues!

[MikDee]

I am a newbie here, and been through 3 new machines!, due to suffocating, or out of breath issues! With no relief in sight But, I seemed to have found a solution, at least for me. Hopefully this will help others who maybe experiencing the same issues I had.
By experimenting, I have found that turning off the C-Flex function on my machine, and going to straight CPAP at the recommended pressure, has eliminated any suffocation, or out of breath issues!

To put it in a nutshell, apparently at times during the night when I was sleeping, my breath would get very shallow, or stop, and the C-Flex would follow my pattern, and when I finally took a breath, or needed a deep breath, it was out of synch with my breathing, so I would wake up out of breath, or suffocating and take the mask off to breathe, while noticing what appeared to be a drop in pressure from the machine? On the 2nd machine I got, this was more pronounced for some reason, and happened 3 times in sucession in one night! Each time, I pulled off the mask caught my breath, noticed the machine was blowing, and put it back on, and went back to sleep. By the 3rd time, I was awake, and startled enough to take off the mask (actually I was ready to throw it across the room! ) shut off the machine, and went back to sleep. Hence the 3rd machine! Well, by the 2nd night, I woke up out of breath twice, and took off the mask again, and shut off the machine. I was totally frustrated by now, and dreaded going through this again, so, I decided to change something! I ended up raising my pressure from 10 to 11, and tried it again the next night, but I woke up with the mask leaking, & blowing off my face Finally analizing what had been happening , I decided to try just straight CPAP, no C-Flex, and it worked, That's been the Charm! I've been able to set my pressure back to 10, and use the machine now for about 1 1/2wks, With No Issues!

[-SWS]

I decided to try just straight CPAP, no C-Flex, and it worked, That's been the Charm!

C-Flex doesn't suit everyone.

I wonder if you were "breath stacking" because of C-Flex. That would be either not always exhaling or not always exhaling the same volume you inhaled during the same breath. So it's really inhalation that starts to stack up or accumulate until a larger "catch up" exhalation cycle finally occurs. That can happen with C-Flex or BiLevel.

Anyway, very glad you found the right setting. Thanks for sharing that!

[Snoredog]

as SWS stated, CFlex, Aflex, Biflex and even EPR is not for everyone.

Shallow breathing also plays havoc on most automated machines, you are breathing but doing so shallow that the machine cannot pick it up, that is why with Cflex it sorta stops, Cflex is only enabled a few milliseconds at the beginning of exhale, if it cannot sense your breathing how is it to offer relief.

What were the exact setting on the machine? Having too low a Minimum pressure can cause the same thing, setting a Maximum limit too low can also cause it.

The 420e would have probably been a better fit machine for you, it seems to handle that shallow breathing just fine.

I wish I could try that new Sandman machine, I suspect that one does a pretty good job also.

[MikDee]

Thanks for the reply!
I have a Remstar M series Plus with C-Flex, and heated humidifier
Resmed Ultra Mirage Full Face
Resmed Ultra Mirage 2 Nasal

CPAP Pres. 10CFM
I don't bother using the ramp.
I like the C-Flex on 2.
I use the auto on feature.
No problem with noise, for me, or the wife, the unit is Quiet.
The blue lights don't bother me, or the wife.
I don't bother using the humidfier, it's hot enough here.
I haven't noticed any mask leak, it fits fine Ultra Mirage 2
I went with the Ultra Mirage Full F. because I sometimes breathe through my mouth, it fits fine, haven't noticed any leaks.

Whats a 420e Snoredog?

[MrSleepy]

I have been complaining about this for years and still to this day even with the Bipap I still stop breathing completly! Miserable, angry and tired. 33 and feel like crap!

[MikDee]

[quote="MrSleepy"]I have been complaining about this for years and still to this day even with the Bipap I still stop breathing completly! Miserable, angry and tired. 33 and feel like crap!

[-SWS]

MikDee, a 420e is a different kind of machine than the standard CPAP you are using. If you are using CPAP and feel great with C-Flex turned off, then you probably don't have central apnea. Nor would you need a 420e APAP machine if you feel great.

Although a lot of people here believe in using a data capable machine. They want the reassurance that they don't have too many outstanding apneas or hypopneas.

[-SWS]

MrSleepy, if you don't sleep or feel well using BiLevel, then it's time to get a new machine, a new doctor, or both. Or your situation might be as simple as getting rise time and duration settings fine tuned.

Some patients with complex sleep apnea (CompSA) find that they sleep better with an adaptive or auto SV type machine like this: https://www.cpap.com/cpap-machine/bipap ... -cpap.html

[MikDee]

Update! Well it seems like something else is going on with my Unit! After about a week of using it with straight CPAP (C-Flex disabled). I noticed it starting off blowing strong when I first put it on, then I guess once I lay down, and fall asleep the pressure drops! I noticed at times all through the night, the pressure seemed low to me? but never gave it a second thought, until I woke up this morning, and sat up in bed to take it off, immediately the pressure increased! so strongly in fact that, it was trying to blow my mask off! The mask was leaking air, & squeaking in places from the pressure! I decided to test this out, and sure enough, once I laid back down with the mask on, the pressure dropped again!? What the He!! is going on!???

_________________

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[sleepngo]

I had the same sensation with my plus tank without Cflex, when ever my mask would start to leak, especially with a FF mask it felt like the pressure had going up but when I stopped the leaks or stopped the machine and readjusted the mask and turned it back on, it felt like the pressure was lower, but the screen showed the same pressure for both conditions. It just felt like it increased when the mask leaked, had it checked and it checked out fine. You might take it in and have it checked or buy a device from Cpap.com that you can use to see if it working right.

Dan

[-SWS]

Update! Well it seems like something else is going on with my Unit! After about a week of using it with straight CPAP (C-Flex disabled).

What you describe below may or may not be a problem.

I noticed it starting off blowing strong when I first put it on, then I guess once I lay down, and fall asleep the pressure drops!

Well, very many people report that same perception. It seems like a substantial amount of pressure at first, and then all of a sudden it seems like almost no pressure.

I woke up this morning, and sat up in bed to take it off, immediately the pressure increased! so strongly in fact that, it was trying to blow my mask off!

If you started to take the mask off, that may be a normal machine response to excessive leak. I agree with what sleepngo suggested about having the machine checked out by your DME. I'd even consider bringing the mask and hose in to have the entire circuit evaluated. Good luck!

[feeling_better]

I am a newbie here, and been through 3 new machines!, due to suffocating, or out of breath issues! With no relief in sight But, I seemed to have found a solution, at least for me. Hopefully this will help others who maybe experiencing the same issues I had.
By experimenting, I have found that turning off the C-Flex function on my machine, and going to straight CPAP at the recommended pressure, has eliminated any suffocation, or out of breath issues!

To put it in a nutshell, apparently at times during the night when I was sleeping, my breath would get very shallow, or stop, and the C-Flex would follow my pattern, and when I finally took a breath, or needed a deep breath, it was out of synch with my breathing, so I would wake up out of breath, or suffocating

MikeDee,

This is a late reply to your original post. I gathered from your later post, that you were referring to a M-Series Plus with C-felx. I have a different model, M-Series Auto w/ Aflex, and this is the only one I have any direct experience with. This machine has both C-flex and A-flex.

What I want to mention is that I experienced almost exactly what you describe but not when in C-flex mode, but only in A-flex mode!! Even though our machines are different models, I would assume their C-flex algorithms are very similar, if not exactly the same. I assume your machine does not have the A-flex algorthim at all, is that correct?

I am curious why we have similar experience with two different algorithms. My understanding of Cflex is, at least as as I see on my machine, it does not really 'learn' the breathing pattern and anticipate it at all, but simply reduces the pressure as it detects one is in the expiration part of ones cycle. I can change the breathing duration of the inhale and exhale from breath to breath and it simply reduces the pressure during most of the exhale. I am using lower pressures than you 6-7.

BTW, do you have different experiences at different cflex settings of 1, 2 or 3 ?

[MikDee]

Thanks for the reply's, I have trained myself somewhat over the yrs to sleep on my sides (preferably rt. side) or stomach, not my back, but occasionally end up there. I was testing it again last night, it is just like I stated previously, plus I also found laying on my sides there is less pressure, but laying on my back there's more pressure???

f_b, Correct, my unit does not have Aflex, just CPAP, or C-Flex, and I tried the numbered C-Flex settings, 2 was best for me, 3 seemed too fast (like panting), and 1 was too slow.

As I contemplate it more, it seems that with C-Flex enabled when the pressure dropped, I believe I was finding it too easy to exhale, creating a hyperventilation condition, causing me to suffocate, or become out of breath! But, with straight CPAP there is just enough pressure, and relief to keep my breathing in rythym I guess? Unless I get a pressure drop Which appears to be happening again otherwise, I think I would be Ok.

SWS, I hadn't had a chance to take the mask off yet at that time, I had just sat up, and the pressure increas startled me all of a sudden, the mask was trying to blow off my face and the irony is the LCD on the Unit always seems to be stuck on 10.5 at all times, from the beginning irregardless

Dan, Thanks, what device is it that would check the actual CFM reading?
I'm wondering if this is an inherent problem with the Remstar machines? Has anyone tested these with that device, and reported their findings? That's why, I'm on my 3rd machine! and as I've been informed by other members, that I should have a Remstar M series Pro Unit, to check my stats, and coordinate with my Dr. on them to see how I'm doing, but I'm quite reluctant to do this because I requested, and got a new machine twice already I wish I had found these forums first!

[feeling_better]

Dan, Thanks, what device is it that would check the actual CFM reading?
I'm wondering if this is an inherent problem with the Remstar machines? Has anyone tested these with that device, and reported their findings? That's why, I'm on my 3rd machine! and as I've been informed by other members, that I should have a Remstar M series Pro Unit, to check my stats, and coordinate with my Dr. on them to see how I'm doing, but I'm quite reluctant to do this because I requested, and got a new machine twice already I wish I had found these forums first!

You did not ask me, but I am jumping in any way

The machine does report the total flow as the leak rate. If you have the data card (I assume your machine has that capability), and if you have the software, you can look at the detailed graphs for that day, the last one is the leak date. For the M-series machine, what is reported as the leak data is the total flow. It turns out the total flow is the leak value! If the pressure is actually increasing significantly you would see the leak value at that time would also be increasing. I repeat, it may not increase for every pressure change, because the reporting is very coarse, only in steps of 7 lpm --- yes I do realize this is not the common view in this forum, and I do not think I have seen anybody say this before. I have proof. I am about to do another post about a detailed study of the leak data of the M-series.

Also I can easily 'feel' the change in the flow at the out port of the mask, with the back of my hand, as the flow changes. To test this: setup the machine with a starting pressure lower than your normal pressure and enable ramp; when you start it would be the normal pressure, but hitting the ramp button it will go down to the starting pressure. And you would be able to feel the flow difference. So you may be able to do a quick check this way when you feel the pressure increase to see if you are seeing an increased flow at the out port.

[sleepngo]

MikDee, it's called a manometer, it's use to measure atmospheric pressure. the machine can be used to check the pressure coming out of your machine to see if it matches the actual pressure listed in your display, don't know how accurate it is or what it cost, Hope this helps.

Dan