Mental jolts/shocks while trying to fall asleep

[-SWS]

LOL! Babs you're right! Egotistically-driven social stature amounts to a big head so to speak! And if that head gets big enough....

I kind of got a chuckle from the Mayo Clinic link above. Here's the question that was posed:

I've been awakened several times in the last few months by a loud noise that sounds like a gunshot in my head. What could cause this?

Then the neurologist goes on to give a very good answer about neurology. But he never asked the lady if she lives in a dangerous neighborhood where nearby gunshots might explode at night...

Yup, as Rooster says, doctors always want to diagnose within their specialty fields. .

[kharyssa]

Not EVERYTHING is attributable to OSA!

I've been diagnosed PTSD since 2000 - long before I got heavy enough to develop OSA. I've been on meds the whole time and they do help. Sure, the drugs are overprescribed, but for some of us they are a necessary and helpful therapy. Suggesting to a new poster, who is clearly struggling through depression, that their doctor is an idiot and that CPAP will solve their mental problems is truly UNCOOL.

[-SWS]

Suggesting to a new poster, who is clearly struggling through depression, that their doctor is an idiot and that CPAP will solve their mental problems is truly UNCOOL.

The word idiot hadn't showed up in this thread until your post. So interpretation is clearly a matter of opinion.

And all previous humor in this thread aside, I think Rooster's rhetorical question about "why take SSRI's" is an extremely valid question for that original poster to take back to their doctor.

Rooster cites a pattern we have seen again and again over the years on the apnea message boards: untreated apnea very highly correlates with depression; CPAP alleviates comorbid depression; the patient can often be taken off SSRI's with successful treatment of apnea; yet many doctors are anecdotally reported to miss that connection altogether. Note that treated apnea does not correlate with depression nearly as well as untreated apnea does.

So I personally don't think it was uncool at all that Rooster rhetorically suggests the original poster's doctor might have missed the same trend that so many others have reportedly missed:
http://www.medindia.net/news/view_news_main.asp?x=5218

Not EVERYTHING is attributable to OSA!

An extremely valid point. But this thread has touched on OSA, depression, medication's side effects, exploding head syndrome, myoclonic twitches, hypnagogic jerks.... and for good measure Babs even threw in egotistically-driven social stature. Oops... and I almost forgot to mention PTSD (good luck with that!).

We do have some health professionals that occasionally visit this board and help with advice. But for the most part I think everyone realizes that this is a message board comprised of unqualified opinions that need to be validated or invalidated. Good luck to you and the original poster!

[-SWS]

Kharyssa, I almost forgot to mention what I personally think is a very cool anecdote that may have personal relevance to your PTSD. One of our message board members is sleep doctor Barry Krakow, MD (very busy and hasn't posted in a while).

He has published some very interesting research about the links between PTSD and sleep disordered breathing. He has also written a few books for the layperson.

His web site: http://sleeptreatment.com/

I personally think he's a very good guy. As a side note Dr. Krakow was probably the first one here to cite that rhetorical question "why take SSRI's". You can read it in his blog over at his web site.

P.S. Welcome to the message board!

[Wulfman]

Not EVERYTHING is attributable to OSA!

I've been diagnosed PTSD since 2000 - long before I got heavy enough to develop OSA. I've been on meds the whole time and they do help. Sure, the drugs are overprescribed, but for some of us they are a necessary and helpful therapy. Suggesting to a new poster, who is clearly struggling through depression, that their doctor is an idiot and that CPAP will solve their mental problems is truly UNCOOL.

It's very possible that the OSA led to the weight gain.

And.....

http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2 ... ssion.html

http://sleepdisorders.about.com/cs/rela ... iadeap.htm

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... sec=health

http://www.annals-general-psychiatry.com/content/4/1/13

http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/cg ... 443?ck=nck

http://www.johnshopkinshealthalerts.com ... 388-1.html


Den

[Claire]

I have to agree with the poster who noted that SSRI's can be a useful therapy. I've been on antidepressants for 15 years...before my OSA began and probably should have been on them when I was a teenager except they didn't exist then. In fact, if my grandmother had been on them, our whole family might have had an easier time of it...but that's another story.

I think there's no doubt that OSA can create depression and keep it going. But there are plenty of people out there who take SSRI's and really need them (with or without OSA).

[-SWS]

Absolutely agree that SSRI's are needed in some cases. My simple philosopy: when they're needed take them; when they're not needed don't take them. Make sure the doctor is key in making that decision. But don't be afraid to research treatment alternatives and pose valid questions to your doctor.

Just a recap of that original comment questioning SSRI's:

According to one of my sleep docs, more than 50% of the patients showing up at her sleep lab for the first time are taking antidepressants with no good results. What they really needed was a sleep study and a good cpap therapy.

Note there are unquestionably plenty of cases that fall on both sides of a presumable "SSRI needs" margin reflected above. Also bear in mind the above is one doctor's practice-based anecdote to Rooster and not a peer-reviewed epidemiological finding.

[roster]

......

According to one of my sleep docs, more than 50% of the patients showing up at her sleep lab for the first time are taking antidepressants with no good results. What they really needed was a sleep study and a good cpap therapy.

..... Also bear in mind the above is one doctor's practice-based anecdote to Rooster and not a peer-reviewed epidemiological finding.

[-SWS]

Just a minor correction, my doc actually said this on a local TV health show about sleep disorders.

Much better than an offhanded anecdote IMO. That makes it a staged and likely well-considered anecdote.

BTW, show me one good scientific study that shows that low serotonin levels cause mental illness. There is not one.

I think the medical community freely acknowledges there are still vast amounts unknown regarding various pathogeneses, etiologies, and even pathologies related to mental illness. BTW, show me one good study that shows low serotonin levels are known to never cause mental illness.

More importantly there are studies showing SSRI's can be effective treatment when applied properly. The devil is lurking in the details and those last three words are the caveat and demise of more than a few patients unfortunately.

I don't think it's at all unwise to question whether any proposed treatment---pharmaceutical or otherwise--- might have better or equally suited alternatives. None of my doctors have ever minded my well intended questions along those lines.

[Snoredog]

[quote="kharyssa"]Not EVERYTHING is attributable to OSA!

I've been diagnosed PTSD since 2000 - long before I got heavy enough to develop OSA. I've been on meds the whole time and they do help. Sure, the drugs are overprescribed, but for some of us they are a necessary and helpful therapy. Suggesting to a new poster, who is clearly struggling through depression, that their doctor is an idiot and that CPAP will solve their mental problems is truly UNCOOL.

[jskinner]

I think there's no doubt that OSA can create depression and keep it going. But there are plenty of people out there who take SSRI's and really need them (with or without OSA).

I think its also possible that SSRIs chemically force your mood to improve without really finding out the root cause of the depression. Personally I see depression as a symptom rather than an illness to be treated. (a very real and painful sympton of course) When someone becomes depressed the goal, in my opinion, should be to find out why the person is depressed and treat that. The cause might be psychological or physical ( low B12, thyroid, etc).

Keep in mind that its never been shown that a chemical imbalance is what causes depression yet most of the world believes this the case due to marketing. I suspect that 90-95% of people on antidepressants don't need to be and there are other root causes for their depression.

But since you can force a person to feel better by changing there chemistry everyone things this is the answer. Its like having a headache, taking an asprin and then saying that the cause of the headache must have been low asprin levels. You could take many of the street drugs in low dosages and get the same results. They are not that dissimilar in how they work.

Anyway I will get off my rant as many of you have heard my view before I think antidepressants are a great way for company's to make money. They certainly haven't lowered the depression rates in the world or cured anyone. Then there is the whole dependence and withdrawal that even more convince people that they need them...

[jskinner]

Has anyone experienced these? I just started getting them after my GP put me on some antidepressants.

Seems like it could be one of a couple things.

1. Sleep starts. A normal part of falling asleep http://www.sleepeducation.com/Disorder.aspx?id=17

2. A side effect of the antidepressant. If you only got them after starting the AD I would guess its a side effect

[Guest]

I think there's no doubt that OSA can create depression and keep it going. But there are plenty of people out there who take SSRI's and really need them (with or without OSA).

I think its also possible that SSRIs chemically force your mood to improve without really finding out the root cause of the depression. Personally I see depression as a symptom rather than an illness to be treated. (a very real and painful sympton of course) When someone becomes depressed the goal, in my opinion, should be to find out why the person is depressed and treat that. The cause might be psychological or physical ( low B12, thyroid, etc).

Keep in mind that its never been shown that a chemical imbalance is what causes depression yet most of the world believes this the case due to marketing. I suspect that 90-95% of people on antidepressants don't need to be and there are other root causes for their depression.

But since you can force a person to feel better by changing there chemistry everyone things this is the answer. Its like having a headache, taking an asprin and then saying that the cause of the headache must have been low asprin levels. You could take many of the street drugs in low dosages and get the same results. They are not that dissimilar in how they work.

Anyway I will get off my rant as many of you have heard my view before I think antidepressants are a great way for company's to make money. They certainly haven't lowered the depression rates in the world or cured anyone. Then there is the whole dependence and withdrawal that even more convince people that they need them...

let's also not forget that there are many studies that FINALLY have been unearthed to definitively prove that antidepressants work no better than a placebo in almost all cases.

[Guest]

More importantly there are studies showing SSRI's can be effective treatment when applied properly. The devil is lurking in the details and those last three words are the caveat and demise of more than a few patients unfortunately

Not so. Those studies have been refuted and most of these studies have been funded by the pharmaceutical companies. Need we say more?

[Guest]

I have heard of alot of people trying to come off SSRIs getting these
"lightning bolt" shocks in their heads. I hadn't heard of getting them while just starting the med but I'm sure its possible.
Just one more reason I don't want to be on them........but if the depression is bad enough, I guess it would be worth it...??

If u go to university medical library, you will see plenty of literature where antidepressants such as SSRI's exasperate PLM or RLS symptoms. These mental jolts are pretty much a different form of PLM or RLS.