All I gotta say on this topic is turn around and RUN.
I got suckered into buying one of these types of things four years ago, and though it worked for a while, all I can say is that it just delayed the REAL diagnosis of OSA for more than 2 years.
People that are snoring should be checked out for OSA FIRST before even considering a snoring device (a full blown PSG isn't even necessary, but they should at least be clinically evaluated!). If it turns out they don't have OSA, or aren't at risk for OSA, then good for them, and they can use such a device.
But for people who DO have OSA, it is just a distraction, a time-waster, a money-sucker, and most importantly, keeps you from getting REAL TREATMENT (xpap).
Sleep and OSA education and knowledge is STILL heavily lacking in the medical community AND in the general population!!
puresleep
Perhaps if I post what I do, some will find the picture it paints to be entertaining, if not informative.
Because I'm the kind of guy who carries an umbrella AND a raincoat wherever I go, I often sleep using bilevel PAP, an oral appliance, AND a sleep wedge that puts me at 40-degree angle, all at once!
I got the oral appliance from a dentist who did a nice job, in my opinion. It holds my jaw forward so that my front upper and lower teeth approximately line up. It conforms to the teeth, so it takes up no room, as far as my tongue is concerned. The fact that it holds my jaw in place seems to make my Ultra Mirage FF leak a little less and helps me to keep my mouth shut when I use the Swift II nose pillows.
I have been told by a family member that if I wear the mouthpiece alone (no PAP, no wedge), I still gasp for air. But if I use the mouthpiece and the bed wedge alone ( still no PAP), I still snore a little, but don't gasp. (All very non-scientific, I know). Those observations were made before I got my machine. I was doing those things to tide me over between titration and receiving the machine.
Now I figure that using the appliance and wedge can't hurt now that I use PAP, and getting used to them means maybe I could get by for one night, maybe two, with just the appliance and wedge in an emergency (power outage, overnight camping without a battery, etc.).
My thinking may be off on all that.
But maybe it was good for a laugh.
jnk
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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): mirage, swift, Titration
Because I'm the kind of guy who carries an umbrella AND a raincoat wherever I go, I often sleep using bilevel PAP, an oral appliance, AND a sleep wedge that puts me at 40-degree angle, all at once!
I got the oral appliance from a dentist who did a nice job, in my opinion. It holds my jaw forward so that my front upper and lower teeth approximately line up. It conforms to the teeth, so it takes up no room, as far as my tongue is concerned. The fact that it holds my jaw in place seems to make my Ultra Mirage FF leak a little less and helps me to keep my mouth shut when I use the Swift II nose pillows.
I have been told by a family member that if I wear the mouthpiece alone (no PAP, no wedge), I still gasp for air. But if I use the mouthpiece and the bed wedge alone ( still no PAP), I still snore a little, but don't gasp. (All very non-scientific, I know). Those observations were made before I got my machine. I was doing those things to tide me over between titration and receiving the machine.
Now I figure that using the appliance and wedge can't hurt now that I use PAP, and getting used to them means maybe I could get by for one night, maybe two, with just the appliance and wedge in an emergency (power outage, overnight camping without a battery, etc.).
My thinking may be off on all that.
But maybe it was good for a laugh.
jnk
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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): mirage, swift, Titration
Hey jnk, nice image of you with the raincoat the umbrella and all the cpap gear all at once
No disrespect intended at all for people who actually benefit from these types of devices, such as yourself.
I just felt that for me, and probbaly many others, that the underlying disease doesn't get diagnosed because it's treated as just a "snoring" problem. I too was tided over a long time with my dental device, and it worked for a while, but eventually it weakened too much (so i got a 2nd one), and eventually it wasn't enough to stop the apneas. Which by then I figured out I needed a real sleep exam (no help from any doctors for that, either ).
anyhoo, thanks for sharing your side of things
No disrespect intended at all for people who actually benefit from these types of devices, such as yourself.
I just felt that for me, and probbaly many others, that the underlying disease doesn't get diagnosed because it's treated as just a "snoring" problem. I too was tided over a long time with my dental device, and it worked for a while, but eventually it weakened too much (so i got a 2nd one), and eventually it wasn't enough to stop the apneas. Which by then I figured out I needed a real sleep exam (no help from any doctors for that, either ).
anyhoo, thanks for sharing your side of things
PR System One APAP, 10cm
Activa nasal mask + mouth taping w/ 3M micropore tape + Pap-cap + PADACHEEK + Pur-sleep
Hosehead since 31 July 2007, yippie!
Activa nasal mask + mouth taping w/ 3M micropore tape + Pap-cap + PADACHEEK + Pur-sleep
Hosehead since 31 July 2007, yippie!
Glad I gave you a chuckle echo. I don't know if the oral appliance actually helps or is mostly just a bizarre form of self-treatment for my lifelong, chronic placebo deficiency!
But I wonder if there have ever been any posters to this forum who got on PAP therapy, lost weight while on that therapy, managed to reverse their metabolic syndrome, maybe even normalizing their blood pressure and cholesterol, so that they eventually got to the point where something minor, like an oral appliance such as the puresleep, allowed them to get off PAP, as confirmed by a sleep study? Or is that the sort of fantasy-wishful-thinking outcome that only happens once in a blue moon and is prompltly hushed up by the sleep-medicine community? Or if it ever did happen, would such a person slowly slip away from the forums and never be heard from again? Or is it best that I just not know the answer to that?
I have so many questions and so little understanding!
jnk
But I wonder if there have ever been any posters to this forum who got on PAP therapy, lost weight while on that therapy, managed to reverse their metabolic syndrome, maybe even normalizing their blood pressure and cholesterol, so that they eventually got to the point where something minor, like an oral appliance such as the puresleep, allowed them to get off PAP, as confirmed by a sleep study? Or is that the sort of fantasy-wishful-thinking outcome that only happens once in a blue moon and is prompltly hushed up by the sleep-medicine community? Or if it ever did happen, would such a person slowly slip away from the forums and never be heard from again? Or is it best that I just not know the answer to that?
I have so many questions and so little understanding!
jnk
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Guest
Of course yes, but CPAP equipment suppliers would have you believe no. This is a no-brainer. OSA is the blocking of the airway during sleep. If an oral appliance keeps the aiway open, then obviously the OSA is eliminated. Will an oral appliance work for everyone? Probably not but it's worth investigating. Pull your jaw forward as far as you can and try to make a snoring sound. If you can't, then an oral appliance might work for you.If one has obstructive sleep apnea, not central, and the snoring is eliminated, wouldn't that make it quite likely that the apnea is eliminated as well?
jnk,jnk wrote:....I got the oral appliance from a dentist who did a nice job, in my opinion. .........
Now I figure that using the appliance and wedge can't hurt ..........
Thanks for relating your experience. I am also interested in trying an oral appliance. There is a local sleep dentist who does a thorough analysis of the patient's anatomy and makes an estimate of how effective an appliance would be for the patient.
If positive he selects from a variety of appliances according to which one would be best for the patient's anatomy. The appliance is then custom fitted by the dentist. The big problem is the cost of $3800 and the risk that it may not be so effective or the patient may not tolerate wearing it.
How long have you been using your appliance? Do you use it all night every night?
Thanks.
Save your money. It's a waste of time and $$. I tried one before I got on CPAP and from my experience, they don't work.rooster wrote:jnk,jnk wrote:....I got the oral appliance from a dentist who did a nice job, in my opinion. .........
Now I figure that using the appliance and wedge can't hurt ..........
Thanks for relating your experience. I am also interested in trying an oral appliance. There is a local sleep dentist who does a thorough analysis of the patient's anatomy and makes an estimate of how effective an appliance would be for the patient.
If positive he selects from a variety of appliances according to which one would be best for the patient's anatomy. The appliance is then custom fitted by the dentist. The big problem is the cost of $3800 and the risk that it may not be so effective or the patient may not tolerate wearing it.
How long have you been using your appliance? Do you use it all night every night?
Thanks.
It's the same thing as sleep apnea. Once you get into deep sleep, your jaw relaxes and there goes the function of the device.
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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP
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I disagree, because snoring doesn't always equal apnea, and vice versa. And I'm not a CPAP equipment supplier. So if you're going to advise folks on the APNEA FORUM not to treat their apnea, with your black & white unsubstantiated claim, then at least register so that we can know who you are. That way, we can choose whether or not to give credence to anything else you say in the future."Guest "said:
Of course yes, but CPAP equipment suppliers would have you believe no. This is a no-brainer. OSA is the blocking of the airway during sleep. If an oral appliance keeps the aiway open, then obviously the OSA is eliminated. Will an oral appliance work for everyone? Probably not but it's worth investigating. Pull your jaw forward as far as you can and try to make a snoring sound. If you can't, then an oral appliance might work for you.
Cathy
I'm with Cathy. Nicely said.
I've used the oral appliance all night every night for about 8 weeks. My estimate is that before I got my PAP machine, my using the appliance along with a bed wedge MAY have helped REDUCE apneas up to 50%. But that's just a guess, since it would take a PSG on someone to know for sure whether that person was helped. My impression is merely anecdotal based on one family member's telling me that I still snore when I use the wedge and appliance, but I do not seem to gasp. But when I slide down off the bed wedge in my sleep, I still snore AND gasp for air even with the appliance in. I take that to mean the appliance is not stopping any hypopneas or flow limitaions, and that alone it cannot stop my apneas.
Between my diagnosis of severe OSA and the DME getting me a machine, I felt I shoiuld do everything practical that I could on my own to reduce the apneas (sleeping on my side, using a wedge, using an oral appliance) until I had the machine. Once I got the machine, I was already used to the appliance and the wedge and figured: 'Hey, they can't hurt (which may or may not be true as far as my back and my jaw!), why not continue using them? Once I have an AutoSet machine, maybe using the wedge and the oral appliance will allow me to get by with less pressure.'
It just so happens that I am in a position in which my dentist is also my personal friend. So he was able to fit me and supply me with an oral appliance within two days of my asking him. And he charged me the cost of materials alone. I won't supply any more information about him so that the American Dental Association doesn't have him rubbed out.
Meanwhile, my sleep doctor (and this is an important point, I believe) DISCOURAGED me from getting an oral appliance, and for all the reasons mentioned here and more. An oral appliance is not a toy. If it is not adjusted far enough forward, it will do nothing. If it is adjusted too far forward, it will damage your jaw. Possibly permanently.
My jaw is out of whack for 20 minutes or so after I take out the appliance. Then it is fine the rest of the day. Is that putting extra pressure on an already weak joint? Yes, I'm sure it is. People who tend toward TMJ problems should stay away from snore-guard-type oral appliances, I think.
If you want to make an oral appliance for yourself, go to a sports store and spend $3 a piece on a few boil and bite boxing-style mouth guards and experiment--very carefully. If you want a safe one from your dentist, bargain with him. Even then, it can take several tries, or several adjustments, depending on the kind of oral device, to get it right.
My sleep doctor says another problem with oral appliances is that insurance doesn't understand the appliances at all. Dental plans often won't cover them, since they aren't for your teeth. And other insurance plans don't cover dental--so it's a catch 22.
That's everything I think I might know in a nut shell.
Hope that helps, rooster.
jnk
I've used the oral appliance all night every night for about 8 weeks. My estimate is that before I got my PAP machine, my using the appliance along with a bed wedge MAY have helped REDUCE apneas up to 50%. But that's just a guess, since it would take a PSG on someone to know for sure whether that person was helped. My impression is merely anecdotal based on one family member's telling me that I still snore when I use the wedge and appliance, but I do not seem to gasp. But when I slide down off the bed wedge in my sleep, I still snore AND gasp for air even with the appliance in. I take that to mean the appliance is not stopping any hypopneas or flow limitaions, and that alone it cannot stop my apneas.
Between my diagnosis of severe OSA and the DME getting me a machine, I felt I shoiuld do everything practical that I could on my own to reduce the apneas (sleeping on my side, using a wedge, using an oral appliance) until I had the machine. Once I got the machine, I was already used to the appliance and the wedge and figured: 'Hey, they can't hurt (which may or may not be true as far as my back and my jaw!), why not continue using them? Once I have an AutoSet machine, maybe using the wedge and the oral appliance will allow me to get by with less pressure.'
It just so happens that I am in a position in which my dentist is also my personal friend. So he was able to fit me and supply me with an oral appliance within two days of my asking him. And he charged me the cost of materials alone. I won't supply any more information about him so that the American Dental Association doesn't have him rubbed out.
Meanwhile, my sleep doctor (and this is an important point, I believe) DISCOURAGED me from getting an oral appliance, and for all the reasons mentioned here and more. An oral appliance is not a toy. If it is not adjusted far enough forward, it will do nothing. If it is adjusted too far forward, it will damage your jaw. Possibly permanently.
My jaw is out of whack for 20 minutes or so after I take out the appliance. Then it is fine the rest of the day. Is that putting extra pressure on an already weak joint? Yes, I'm sure it is. People who tend toward TMJ problems should stay away from snore-guard-type oral appliances, I think.
If you want to make an oral appliance for yourself, go to a sports store and spend $3 a piece on a few boil and bite boxing-style mouth guards and experiment--very carefully. If you want a safe one from your dentist, bargain with him. Even then, it can take several tries, or several adjustments, depending on the kind of oral device, to get it right.
My sleep doctor says another problem with oral appliances is that insurance doesn't understand the appliances at all. Dental plans often won't cover them, since they aren't for your teeth. And other insurance plans don't cover dental--so it's a catch 22.
That's everything I think I might know in a nut shell.
Hope that helps, rooster.
jnk
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Guest
fwiw, I looked at the puresleep dot com website, and the founder is Douglas Fenton, who owns a dental practice in the financial district of San Francisco. His practice's website is www cosmeticdentistryassociates dot net. I haven't been able to find any reviews of his practice.
I'm not trying to vouch for puresleep, but at least its inventor is a legitimate dentist with a supposed legitimate practice.
I'm not trying to vouch for puresleep, but at least its inventor is a legitimate dentist with a supposed legitimate practice.
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DreamStalker
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Guest
I've been a CPAP user for about two years and it has eliminated my snoring and greatly helped my sleep. However, I still feel tired during the day and decided to try Puresleep. After 7 days, I can say that it works for me. No snoring at all during the night and great, restful sleep. Another way I can tell it works is by the amount I dream. Before the CPAP, no dreams at all (I assume I never made it to that stage of sleep). With the CPAP, one or two dreams per night. With the Puresleep, 4 or 5 dreams per night. It also keeps my mouth shut during sleep which was always a problem for me. Of course, it may not work for everyone and it's not a panacea, but it is worth a try for folks with minor sleep apnea. By the way, the package says it is not for those with central sleep apnea, which most of us know is different from obstructive sleep apnea.