chin strap use...help!

[new-to-BiPAP]

I just got a new mask yesterday and my DME suggested I try a chin strap. But, I am having problems getting both the chin strap AND the nose pillow on my head at the same time! I have a fairly small head and there just doesn't seem to be enuf room! I have a little bit of material around my mask strap so it doesn't irritate my skin. If I put too much on it leaks. I tried putting the chin strap on underneath the nasal pillow but it was too much material underneath the pillow strap...plus the chin strap-strap is not extremely smooth/comfortable on my face. Ok...I do have sensitive skin things bother me a lot. I just wore the nasal pillow for a few hours last night and it seemed to do ok (although I think it might have leaked as I moved around). If I try and put the chin strap over my nasal pillow it gets in the way of where the mask straps hook on to the hose on the top of my head (I sleep is about every position so I can't strap the hose to the sides of my head...and I've been getting tangled up if I don't attach it somewhere...I might try to make something that attached to the bed...but I want to make sure I can actually use this stuff first. Like I said, my face is small...and the chin strap seems huge compared. Are there different size chin straps? Some better for smaller heads?

I have the Respironics 'premium' chin strap. One of the problems I'm having is...it wants to go over my ears...and I don't want it touching my ears (would drive me crazy). I'll try and play around with it tonight again. My husband and I had a great laugh over trying to get both my chin strap and pillow mask gear in place at the same time! Finally gave up...

Any chin strap users out there?

[marielouise]

I use a chin strap. After trying them all the wide white one works best for me and out lasts the others by a long shot. I first put that on. yes over ears, then my Optilife and clip it to a squishy pillow that I hold. Think of it this way; if your husband burps or farts, or asks for more covers, or a drink, or if the dog needs to go out, you don't have to worry because maybe you won't hear it.
Like you skin sensitivity is an issue, so is moving around sleeping in all positions. And I don't like being confined at all. It has taken work and a bit of discomfort and yes a few temper tantrums and whining spells. But I have learned to buck-up and make the best of it. I do hope you are able to find the right combination for yourself so you and your husband can rest comfortably.

[new-to-BiPAP]

Well...I tried the chin strap last night. didn't last long. I only kept it on for about 2 hours. Woke up and could not stand being so constricted and it hurt my ears. I'm also not sure if I'm putting it on right. Seems like if I relax my jaw my mouth could open just a tad (with lips barely closed). Having problems fitting it with my mask. I put the chin strap on beneath the nasal pillow but I have to be careful because the straps can't go directly beneath the nasal pillow strap that goes across my face or the pillow will leak. I did find a work around for the material bothering my face. I just cut a piece of material and placed it between the chin strap and my face...that worked well. Now if I can just shrink my ears so they aren't bothered...

*sigh*

[mch441]

try the topaz adjustable chinstrap the straps go over and around the back of the head so it doesnt tnd to slip off and your mask will fit right over top of it ,i used one for a long time before switching to the liberty and still use it occasionaly when i use my swift 11 nose pillows

[preemiern]

I would suggest trying tape...I know--it sounds barbaric...but it works, and is not uncomfortable like a chinstrap is. I only recently started mouthtaping, and now wonder why I held out so long. I've tried full face masks--mainly the quattro, but my AHI increased significantly. I've used chinstraps, and they left worse marks on my face than my mask straps because I had to have them soooo tight. They also were uncomfortable under my chin-felt like I was being choked. I've used the hybrid and the liberty, but get tired of putzing around with the pillows to keep them sealed.
Since starting to mouthtape--I feel like I've found new freedom...I can use my optilife pillows if I want minimal stuff on my face, but they are not my favorite to use. I can now use my beloved activa again, and have just recently also purchased the mirage micro mask which I also like as it is small and doesn't feel like a lot of silicone and plastic on my face. I just wish I would have done this much sooner.
I use the silky cloth type tape, and follow Rooster's technique of putting chapstick on my lips so the tape doesn't actually stick to my lips, then roll my lips inward a bit and put the tape across my lips while keeping them rolled inward. I pull the tape fairly tightly across my lips which helps keep my tongue parked behind my upper teeth, then I don't get a mouth full of air as my jaw relaxes when I am falling asleep. Hope this helps, and if you want to try and have any questions-ask away and I will try to be clearer in my explanation. Oh--I also double the tape so that I get a wider strip.
here is the link to Rooster's post...

viewtopic.php?t=9653

Cindy

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): mirage, activa, AHI

[new-to-BiPAP]

thanks for the suggestions for taping and a different chin strap. I talked w/ my dr and he said to try without the strap and see how I do. I have tmj so I'm not sure if that is why or not. But if I need to try it again...I know some things to do differently...thanks!!

[snoregirl]

I had to throw my 2 cents in here.

First. if you don't want to hang the hose behind you on the wall like some do here try what I do. Put a piece of cloth tape around the outside of the hose and leave a tab at the correct spot (leaving enough hose to get from the machine the safety pin, and the rest is on top of the bed with you. Take a baby diaper pin and pin it to the sheets so it doesn't tug. Put the rest under the blanket with you. Great for preventing rainout. Machine is on the floor beside the bed.

Next. Get rid of the commercial chin strap and get a 3 inch ace bandage. Put on the nasal pillow then wrap the ace bandage around your head. Also, the back strap of the headgear for the pillow goes UNDER your haif (grab your hair like you are making a pony tail and put it through the strap. this holds it down.

Then as I said put the ace bandage on. Then tape with gentle paper tape with the ends turned under so there are tabs for quick removal...

This is my favorite set up. The ace bandage stabilizes the pillows from leakage and gives chin support. The tape does the rest.

[new-to-BiPAP]

thanks for the great ideas, snoregirl! I like the pony tail idea. I keep feeling like the bottom pillow strap wants to come off my head! I'll hafta try the ace bandage sometime too. Now if I can just figure out why I'm getting central apneas with my machine...and fix that...I'll be all set!

[larryp1941]

I've tried several chin straps with no luck. They either are too loose or they don't hold up well at all. I purchased some 2" non-allergenic tape last week and it works great! Simple answer to a hard questions. Only problem is if I have to cough.

[rested gal]

I just got a new mask yesterday and my DME suggested I try a chin strap.

I'm wondering why the DME suggested a chin strap. In your sleep study did the sleep tech put a chin strap on you at some time during the night? Or were they using a Full Face mask on you at the study (a FF mask covers nose and mouth both, allowing you to breathe the treatment air through nose or mouth either one.)

True, a lot of people do mouth breathe in their sleep or puff air out their mouth...either of which interferes with getting effective treatment if not wearing a FF mask.

I talked w/ my dr and he said to try without the strap and see how I do.

The only way a person can really know "how" they do regarding possible mouth breathing during sleep (if not wearing a FF mask) is IF:

1. The machine you're using records full data (that would include "leak" data.) I don't know if the PB 425 bilevel machine records that kind of information. You might want to find out if it does.

AND

2. Someone (you, the doctor, or the DME) downloads the data and actually looks at the leak rate.

People (and their bed partners) can sleep through humongous noisy leaks, so just guessing at "how you do" is not a good way to figure out if you do, or do not, have a lot of mouth air leaks.

Chin straps don't necessarily stop mouth air leaks. It's all about where the tongue stays during the relaxation of sleep. If the tongue stays in a position that maintains an airtight seal inside the mouth, there will be no mouth air leaks or mouth breathing even if the mouth is hanging open.

And on the flip side of the coin, even if you used a chin strap that was so tight your teeth were clenched (not a good idea with TMJ troubles) it's still possible for air to gush out the relaxed lips. That's why many of us turned to things like tape over the mouth or polident strips to keep the lips closed.

I had to use tape for over three years...every night. Occasionally I'd try various chin straps, ACE bandage, etc., but my leak rate when I tried them was terrible. Until finally, one night last summer when I half-heartedly gave a chin strap a try again, my leak rate was wonderfully low. Apparently my tongue had finally (FINALLY after 3 years of mouth taped shut each night) gotten into the habit of maintaining a leak proof position inside my mouth.

Since July 2007 I've been able to use a chin strap. The one I like best is the "Original" Respironics Premium. Not just the Premium... I use the older "Original Premium." It's just a wide white slightly stretchy strap that fastens with velcro on top. It does go over the ears though, so might not suit you. My mouth can hang slightly open and no leaks, thanks to how my tongue is staying put now.

I can assure you though, if a chin strap didn't stop the leaks for me, I'd certainly continue using tape. Mouth leaks can be real therapy wreckers. It's especially important when using a bilevel machine or an autopap to have mouth leaks well under control.

Good luck!

[new-to-BiPAP]

Well...during the last study I wore a nasal mask for 1/2 and a ff for 1/2. I was having problems staying asleep so they thought they would try the ff. I did notice last night I woke up with my mouth open (I can't remember if noise woke me up or what...but my mouth was dry) and again in the morning my mouth was dry. My 425 does not tell much info (no leak info I don't think but not positive...I'm kind of confused on what it records actually). I think I'd like to start w/ the chin strap before taping cuz I think I would feel more comfortable starting out being able to move my mouth a bit. Tho I'll keep taping in mind. I do need to be careful b/c I do have TMJ problems. I think the DME wanted to see after a week of my new nasal pillow how it differed from the nasal mask so maybe he will want to download...I will ask him to.

Thanks!

[new-to-BiPAP]

Well...my sleep dr said I didn't need to use the chin strap but...
1) I have woken up a few times with my mouth open
2) I'm going thru humidified air like you would not believe
3) My 'compliance' meter is always way below what I'm actually using
4) I have increased my water consumption from 8 glasses to OVER 12 glasses a day and I'm still thirsty...

So...I decided to try the chin strap again to see if that helps any of the above...
I figured out a way to use it so it does NOT go over my ears...I am very happy about that. However, I'm not sure how tight to put it on...

If seems like even with it really tight I can still have my jaw drop open. How tight does it really need to be to help?

Thanks!!