Need for Data Logging?

remm · Post by **remm** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:38 pm

I'm about 2 months into CPAP and getting to the point of buying a machine. Insurnace will pay and the machine my Dr. recommends is the Resmed S8 Escape.

The concern I have is that there is no data logging especially. It seems to me that the S8 Elite or the S8 AutoSet Vantage would be better choices. The big concern I have is that with no data logging. That seems to me to mean that there's no real way to know if it's working the best it can. My doctor seems unconcerned about this. My question is -- how important do people think data logging is?

The other thing I would add -- I started out with an S8 Auto Set Vantage for the first 2 months, and only switched to the S8 Escape in the past couple of weeks. I felt like the S8 Auto Set Vantage was working well for me after 2 months -- though it did take some time. Since switch to the S8 Escape it's been a struggle -- though things seem to slowly be improving as I get use to it -- though it's still not so good. Hence -- I'm not sure what to do.

So any thought's would be helpful. I feel like I need to push back some on my doctor if I'm to get anything other than the S8 Escape. I guess I'm leaning to asking to switch to an S8 Elite since that has data logging and I also think the exhale releaf would be nice. I don't know if I really need auto -- though if anyone has an opinion I'd like to here it.

So what do people think?

Rob

bdp522 · Post by **bdp522** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:48 pm

The data is very important! How else will you know if you are doing well or need help? You can't check leaks without data. You don't need the very best machine, just the one that works best for you. If the vantage was working well for you, I'd stick to that.

Brenda

RAINSUX · Post by **RAINSUX** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:07 pm

Datalogging is the most important thing you can do, other than using the machine every night.

The sleep lab missed my titration, and I was floating along with AHIs in the high teens until I found this group. I go to the VA, and they didn't seem to care about my AHI. They didn't even really care if I was using the machine. I have never had any contact with them unless I initiated it. They are very helpful if I call or visit, but they do nothing to monitor my progress.

After joining this group I bought the software and reader (luckily they provided me with a data capable machine). I began changing my pressure, changed my mask, and did other adjustments and now my pressure is about 50% higher than titrated and my AHI is around 1.5. Without the data I would still be in the high teens and not know any difference. I monitor my AHI every day and make adjustments when it begins to trend upward.

Don't let them force you to get a "dumb" machine!

Sam

alnhwrd · Post by **alnhwrd** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:25 pm

Rob,

You are right on the money on this one. Like the others have said, access to nightly data is crucial to successful CPAP treatment. It is technically possible to get it right without it, but its like playing pin the tail on the donkey. Data lets you take the blindfold off. The auto also has the advantage of letting you check your pressure needs from time to time as well, and if your pressure needs are different in different positions it can adjust for that. Also, the Auto can be used as a CPAP, but not vice versa.

If you were more comfortable with the Vantage, you should definitely press for that machine. The Escape would be a decent back up or travel machine but I would not want it as my main, only because of the data issue. I use the Elite and like it, especially the easy access to leak, pressure and AHI info. A card reader and software will give you even better information, but you will have to get those on your own.

Follow your instincts, you are on the right track. Best of luck to you.

Sleeprider · Post by **Sleeprider** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:44 pm

I don't understand why any physician would advocate a low-end machine that blindfolds both the patient and himself to treatment efficacy. Your insurance pays for it, and your willingness to invest in software shows that money is not the issue. Does your doctor drive a car without GPS? Does he still do his billing without computers? Its the 21st century! The incremental cost is a small fraction of a sleep study that is used to provide similar feedback. Data is cost-effective, not expensive. I don't get it. I guess that's why we have to strongly advocate for what we need. It starts and ends with us taking responsibility for our therapy. Most of our doctors just don't understand apnea, or deal with this very often. Otherwise, how could there be so many people that remain undiagnosed.

LavenderMist · Post by **LavenderMist** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:28 pm

Data is extremely important. I was on cpap for a year and a half with limited success. Once I got a data capable machine and started tracking my data I found out I was leaking excessively and changed masks and it made a world of difference. My treatment finally took off and was working great. I would never accept another machine without data capability.

6PtStar · Post by **6PtStar** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:32 pm

Would not have one with out data even if I had to buy it out-of-pocket. Makes all the difference.

Jerry

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:57 pm

The first thing I would do is DUMP this "sleep doctor". He's a sorry excuse for one.

Well, that would be the second thing I'd do now that I think it thru. I'd first insist on a copy of his dictated results (1-2 pages) AND a copy of the full scored summary data w/condensed graphs reports (5+ pages) for BOTH my sleep evaluation AND my titration AS WELL AS a copy of the equipment order (script). They are part of your medical records and in the USA you have a LEGAL RIGHT to those copies under HIPAA.

THEN I would forget this "sleep doctor" (snort) and have my family doctor write the equipment order for me for exactly what I want.

I have absolutely no use for any so called sleep doctor who had so little interest in his patients that he would even ALLOW them to be provided w/anything less than a fullY data capable xPAP. (Except if the patient had no or very poor insurance and were financially strapped or limited).

Good luck!

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:10 pm

And be aware the Resmed's Software comes in least useful of the big three brands. Jim

bdp522 · Post by **bdp522** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:16 pm

And be aware the Resmed's Software comes in least useful of the big three brands

It's still better than no software at all!

Brenda

GumbyCT · Post by **GumbyCT** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:19 pm

Goofproof wrote:And be aware the Resmed's Software comes in least useful of the big three brands. Jim

That I didn't know - tell me more, tell me more.

My sis may end up with one of these Resmeds, bless her heart!

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:31 pm

GoofProof, yer starting to sound like SnoreDog!!

If your sister gets a fully data capable Resmed S8 Elite w/EPR she'll be happy w/it and the data whether she gets the software or not.

What's the alternative? An M Series that drops data a couple of days a month? Fight the royal battle for an autoPAP so she can have the Puritan Bennett GoodKnight 420E and no expiration pressure relief?

Pineapple · Post by **Pineapple** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:13 am

I still find it amazing that there are doctors out there that base the treatment of thier patients on a one night sample (some only half a night) Is this how they handle thier retirement fund?

I will give you a specifice example of why you need data. I was given a "data challenged" machine - compliance data only. About 2 months in, I woke up to what was unquestionably apneas while sleeping on my back. When I went into the doctor, he pulled out my sleep study and stated that he thought my pressure needed to be raised, see you in 3 weeks. So up my pressure went from 8 to 11 and I started waking 6 times a night instead of 3.

5 weeks later I go back (that was the earliest appointment he had), he looks at my sleep study and says "Well you have a little insomnia with your apnea" and gave me sleeping pills - didn't help, I was still was waking up 6 times a night (centrals maybe?) Without data I can't tell, and I couldn't convice him that I needed a data capable machine to verify what was going on with my treatment.

So I went ahead and started back at ground zero working up slowly, at 10 I'm only waking 3 times a night, but I am snoring (Isn't this a riot - before CPAP I didn't snore - now I'm snoring ) and I do feel better.

Anyway - this question could have been answered in April if I had a data capable machine.

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:01 am

Slinky wrote:GoofProof, yer starting to sound like SnoreDog!!

If your sister gets a fully data capable Resmed S8 Elite w/EPR she'll be happy w/it and the data whether she gets the software or not.

What's the alternative? An M Series that drops data a couple of days a month? Fight the royal battle for an autoPAP so she can have the Puritan Bennett GoodKnight 420E and no expiration pressure relief?

That's not neccessarily true. I have used my M series for about 7 months straight without a single drop of data. ... and I don't use the integrated HH so I don't have any of the HH issues you always bring up to discourage people from getting anything other than a ResMed ... and I'm sure that there are even many who do use the integrated HH without any problems.

The important thing is that the machine be capable of providing useful data ... and that means more than just the data off the LED -- it means data that shows continuous nightly data via software.

Better still is to get an APAP since all APAP's provide useful data when connected to the appropriate software. In addition, all APAPs can be easily set to work in CPAP mode if that is what works best for any specific circumstance (an Elite is limited only to CPAP mode). And best is to get one with exhalation relief even if it turns out you don't need any ... at least you have the option to trial it and see if you do or don't need it. The M series with AFLEX offers two types of exhalation relief and offers them in APAP mode (again the ResMed Vantage APAP only offers exhalation relief in CPAP mode).

It's a matter of whether one wants the BEST (most features and options) for their health or just what gets them by (minimum features to treat OSA and limited or no options). I have tried the ResMed Elite and Vantage as well as the Remstar Legacy and M Series. IMO, I think the M series AFLEX model offers the most features and options.

remm · Post by **remm** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:04 pm

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone for the great comments.

Also -- it's a big help having some confirmation on the need for data. It just seemed obvious to me -- but I was wondering if I was being too overboard. I tend to be a show me the data kind of guy.

Again thanks.

Rob