Something is wrong!

[Fredman]

United States and Canada economies are built around supply and demand in a political democratic system, but yet we as citizens and consumers we have to fight for our rights as patients to get the medical services and equipment we need to provide a reasonable quality of life.

We pay for these services through taxes, wage and salary deductions to our pay, and subscription premiums to services - yet we are the ones that come to a forum like this to collaborate about how we can get what we need to survive so that we can pay for the services that are "afforded" to us.

And because we should be thankful for the services that are afforded to us, we should be expected to pay a "copay" amount of 20-40% because Insurance companies "aren't making profit or enough of it" Gee let's see the oil companies aren't making enough money at $130.00 a barrel but we will pay anywhere less than that to about $175.00 a mask!

Something is terribly wrong! Wait, I am sure someone will correct me...that's okay, it's only money.

[snoregirl]

No Fred, I will not correct you. You are right on the money.

[goose]

Good post Fred -- couldn't agree more.

It's actually a very sad situation when you really think about it. But the only way we can change it is make noise, and it only changes for the one or two squeaky wheels.....The system will usually prevail because that's where the $$$ are....

Insurance companies, Oil companies -- they're all greed heads and sheisters.

cheers
goose

[Babette]

Sorry, stupid humour response....

Hey, what if we all quit using OIL? Then alot of our medical problems would disappear, and the medical insurance industry would collapse and we'd go back to paying the doc for housecalls with a sack of potatoes or a chicken.

Sorry... It's a bright sunny day, I'm in a good mood, and ready to laugh at EVERYTHING!

LOL,
Babs

[Fredman]

Babette, never apologize for humour!

We can always use some laughter especially on this topic!

p.s. You either are a Canadian/British background living in WA or you picked up the British spelling somewhere! I had to look twice, you know us Canadians, Brits, Aussies, and Kiwis all have to add "u"s and "s"s everywhere we like to be different We even measure and weigh things in Metric but many of us crazy Canadians switch between the two.

Humor=Humour
Check=Cheque
Practice=Practise
Color=Colour

[geoDoug]

It's morally wrong to make a profit off of other people's health.

Doug.

[Babette]

I picked up the misspelling of words from chatting online with too many Canadians. I think Humour is the only word I consistently spell that way. It just looks right to me now.

Though I do admit to being a huge Anglophile. In fact, a British Reenactor.

LOL,
Babs

[roster]

You guys are all totally wrong. And to think you probably are registered to vote! What a shame.

Babette's "humor" is the closest thing to the truth:

.........
Hey, what if we all quit using OIL? Then alot of our medical problems would disappear, and the medical insurance industry would collapse and we'd go back to paying the doc for housecalls with a sack of potatoes or a chicken. ........
Babs

It's morally wrong to make a profit off of other people's health.

Doug.

Doug, that is the most inane statement in the thread. Go study some history and economics. I expected better of you.

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their self-love,.... - Adam Smith

Now tell me who on this planet of six billion is developing better xpap machines to treat us? Who is developing new drugs? Who is developing better surgical procedures for our health? Who is putting fresh, locally grown food in the stores to improve our health? Who made the nice weight lifting equipment I use to improve my health? Who made the nice comfortable shoes I wear for hiking and fitness walking? Make up your own list.

Out of six billion people there is not one involved in these activities who is just doing it for the good of the recipients. All of these wonderful things are provided by people who are doing it for a profit.

Besides love and fellowship, what good are you getting from people who are not in it for a profit? Probably very little and that very little is of low quality.

Have a nice evening.

[geoDoug]

Doug, that is the most inane statement in the thread. Go study some history and economics. I expected better of you.

I'm curious why you say that. Care to elaborat or point me to a specific reference/reading material? I'm talking about overall principles, not economic nuts and bolts. Insurance companies and DMEs in the end have one concern, and it is NOT my health. Because the system is driven by profit, I have to jump through hoops to get a $150 mask to save my life.

Insurance companies resist payouts and DMEs give low-end CPAPs to newcomers so their stock will go up a quarter of a point. That's death by spreadsheet.

Doug.

[alnhwrd]

I agree with Babs' humour. We need to quit using oil, and develop a car that runs on body fat! Think how much fun it would be to fill your tank then!

[pd]

Rooster really points out the sad and sorry reality that has been drummed into the modern worker. Profit as the sole motivator for ones actions does not account for volunteerism, vows of poverty, self sacrifice, dedication to making the world a better place, nor forgoing instant gratifications for the good of society.

Many people work in fields or areas that are less financially rewarding because they feel they are contributing to the betterment of this world. Those poor fools that are simply driven by their greed are doomed to the existence that they create and live at the expense of all those who freely contribute to society.

How many people help coach a little league team to pad their pockets? Deliver meals to the elderly or ill for those big bucks? Teach the children and citizens of tomorrow for top dollar? Lend a hand to a stranger in need because of the big financial payout? Raise a child to reap the monetary benefits of being a parent? What a sad and lonely place we would live if money truly was our only motivator in this world. What a selfish cold world it would be if we let money guide all our actions.

There will always be usurers and those who seek maximum gain for their efforts; even professions that depend on this soulless and vile aspect of human nature. But the heart of a community and society is the grace and generosity that its members bestow on each other without the expectation of personal gain.

Yes, many are rewarded for doing their jobs, and occasionally in accordance with their ability, skill, or unpleasantness of their position, but that in no way negates their responsibility to the community that they live. Each freedom, reward, or privilege has a social cost that should be returned to the community. As a member of a community you have that obligation whether you recognize it or not; we call it citizenship and civic duty.

So, just because you were taught about supply side economics, and how to chart supply and demand curves, does not excuse your apparent lack of ethical or moral understanding of obligation and duty. Might want to look into a field of study called ethics; something our schools have forgotten about.

Otherwise, Show me the money, and please send my payment for contributing this message; and Ha, Ha you fools, I just snaked a whole bunch of free information from your knowledge base and I got it all for free- losers.

Do you really wonder why the rest of the world looks at the United States with less than bright hopeful eyes.

[roster]

Doug, that is the most inane statement in the thread. Go study some history and economics. I expected better of you.

I'm curious why you say that. Care to elaborat or point me to a specific reference/reading material? I'm talking about overall principles, not economic nuts and bolts. Insurance companies and DMEs in the end have one concern, and it is NOT my health. Because the system is driven by profit, I have to jump through hoops to get a $150 mask to save my life.

Insurance companies resist payouts and DMEs give low-end CPAPs to newcomers so their stock will go up a quarter of a point. That's death by spreadsheet.

Doug.

I can answer your question Doug but first please answer the one I posed:

Besides love and fellowship, what good are you getting from people who are not in it for a profit?

Give me some examples of people who created good things for you who were not doing it "for profit". Look around your domicile at these good things and tell us who provided them.

If you get your groceries from the local community relief pantry you can put my wife and me on the list. We take things there two or three times per month and my wife volunteers there two half days per week. I volunteer there when I get a chance.

The people that get their groceries at the pantry eat a lot of canned foods and dry goods like rice, grits and day-old breads and baked sweets. Guess what the people that depend on the evil "for profit" grocery stores eat? Well they eat whatever they want but much of it is fresh fruits, vegetables and seafoods. There is not much of that at the pantry (no refrigeration).

It's morally wrong to make a profit off of other people's health.

Doug.

So is it morally wrong for that grocery store to profit off of fresh vegetables and fruits? They are profiting off of my health!

BTW, I take no stock in drive-by posters' comments.

[Fredman]

Rooster has some valid points and we do like to discuss the "economics of Health Care" of course being a Canadian that's one of our huge expenditures.

I have to say though I do agree with you Rooster on the fact about the advancements of health care, procedures and advances are mainly coming from US and Canada. It is ironic though, right?

I do agree companies have a right to profit but at the same time we need to make things affordable...not sure how we do that.

NO simple answers.

[Guest]

...

I have to say though I do agree with you Rooster on the fact about the advancements of health care, procedures and advances are mainly coming from US and Canada. It is ironic though, right?

.......

Fredman, I see no irony at all. It is quite logical that the most and best advances will come from countries whose governments protect the rights of companies to do their own research, production and marketing.

........
I do agree companies have a right to profit but at the same time we need to make things affordable...not sure how we do that.

Companies that don't make their products or services affordable go out of business quickly.

[goose]

Companies that don't make their products or services affordable go out of business quickly.

Or they adjust their prices to ensure survival!!!!

cheers
goose