Got my Liberty today!

Needsdecaf · Post by **Needsdecaf** » Tue May 20, 2008 6:01 pm

Well, got my Liberty via UPS today. Ordered Friday through Apria, got here today. One strange thing: even though I just got an Opus 2 weeks ago, I was still able to get a Liberty because the FF mask is in a different insurance code than a nasal pillow mask.....but the headgear is in the same code. So I had to pay for that! Strange.

In any event, I opened it up and threw it on and got it to not leak within 5 minutes. I"m going to take it a part and wash it before bedtime and also switch to the small nasal pillow size.

I am looking forward to seeing what this does to my leak rate! We'll see what happens. Wish me luck!

Pad A Cheek · Post by **Pad A Cheek** » Tue May 20, 2008 7:54 pm

I wish you the best of luck with the new mask.
New masks always bring a sense of hope and slight anticipation that THIS one may be the "Magic" fit I have been looking for.

Sleep well.

Karen

Fredman · Post by **Fredman** » Tue May 20, 2008 9:00 pm

Needsdecaf, I look forward to your response. I have a nasal mask, Activa Mirage...love it BUT there are days when I am stuffed up and I need to mouth breathe.

A Full Face mask is not enticing. I tried Mirage Quattro and hated it. It leaked and I felt claustrophobic and hot (never had that problem before).

So please do tell how it works out for you. Of course everyone is different, but the Liberty is a Hybrid and looks promising to me.

Needsdecaf · Post by **Needsdecaf** » Wed May 21, 2008 6:26 am

In a word....catastrophe.

Took it out of the box yesterday evening, got acquainted with it. Set it up, tried it on, etc. Went up to plug it into the machine and got it rolling, some slight leaks, nothing intolerable.

Went and fiddled around with it some more. Decided to swap out the medium pillows for the small (that's what I run in my Swift to great success) and put my spare pair of pad straps on. Hook it up...hisssssssss, small pillows are not sealing.

Ok, back to the mediums. Getting later now, time for bed.

One last fit in the mirror, check, looks good. Everything nice and snug (possibly a bit too snug) hose on for a last check...ok, nice and quiet no leaks! Just the vents, which are much quieter than the Opus.

Wife is in bed, falling asleep. Mask on, lights out. Clip on the hose, start breathing, machine on, everything ok.

Lay back on pillow. As soon as my head hits the pillow, the mask shifts....hisssssss. I fold in the seal a bit with my fingers, better, not gone. Work my jaw...hissssssss. Turn my head side to side....hisss, hiss, hiss.

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Get up, re-seat mask, good. Hit pillow, hiss.

Rip mask off, throw on floor, grab opus from drawer, and throw it on. Fall asleep.

Wake up at 4:30. Left nostril completely clogged. I've been having trouble with allergies, time to put the white filter in I guess. But one one nostril on a nasal mask isn't enough to be able to catch my breath. So off the mask comes for good.

Let's just say, not the night I was hoping for.

My wife is away tonight on busines...I'll putz around more. But I can see why people do the Mack's earplug thing, there's a lot of seal to maintain.

Also, I'm not too happy with CFlex and the mask. It's weird, every time I exhale, the pressure drops (natch). When I inhale, the pressure pops back up, but it has the effect of pushing the mask off my face. Strange to feel the mask moving up and down.

pjwalman · Post by **pjwalman** » Wed May 21, 2008 6:47 am

I still can't manage more than a couple hours with my Hybrid, but it definitely helped with the seal to use RG's pantyhose fix to hold the nasal pillows in place, as Rooster suggested. Not cinched up so tight at the start as to get pig snout but held gently with pantyhose against nostrils, and then the pressure lifts them up where they need to be. Maybe you already gave that a try, but if not...

Peggy

Needsdecaf · Post by **Needsdecaf** » Wed May 21, 2008 6:54 am

[quote="pjwalman"]I still can't manage more than a couple hours with my Hybrid, but it definitely helped with the seal to use RG's pantyhose fix to hold the nasal pillows in place, as Rooster suggested. Not cinched up so tight at the start as to get pig snout but held gently with pantyhose against nostrils, and then the pressure lifts them up where they need to be. Maybe you already gave that a try, but if not...

Peggy

yardbird · Post by **yardbird** » Wed May 21, 2008 7:11 am

I have much better luck with my Ultra Mirage full face mask if I turn off c-flex. And even better when I run it on straight cpap (not auto). I'm new to the full face mask thing, but I think they don't handle the pressure variations real well.

Now in fairness this may only be true for ME... maybe I just don't have the "touch" yet for getting it set up. I still have some leak issues with it, but it's much better on straight cpap with no c-flex for me at least.

You might try that (if you haven't already) while you are "dialing it in". I've gone back to my swift and working on sealing my mouth, but the swift is my "comfort zone" and I get good sleep with it (when I'm not mouth leaking). So I'll get caught up on sleep and then work on the UMFF again .. I want that full face mask option available to me.

birdshell · Post by **birdshell** » Wed May 21, 2008 7:32 am

With my Liberty, I have discovered that any wrinkles or slight creases in the softer outer seal cause leaks. I have to lift the mouth portion (headgear in place) to reseat the entire thing, or pull on the seal to try to smooth it out if I'm too lazy to try the reseating process.

After this, I usually have to tweak (pull slightly to one direction or another) the nasal pillows. Because of my slotted nares, I find that I have to use a REAL pantyhose leg placed just under the crease and routed under my ears with a flat knot (i.e., the beginning half of tying one's shoes).

I hope that you come to terms with the Liberty. There is no one best mask for all of us. Trial and error seems to be the one and only way to determine which mask is best FOR US. This unfortunately means we need to suffer a lot of leaks, tweaks, and critiques on the path to good sleep.

Sleep well and prosper.

Karen

Needsdecaf · Post by **Needsdecaf** » Wed May 21, 2008 10:55 am

Well, I picked up some Mack's silicone this morning. When I was at home for lunch I rolled ONE ball out and flattened it out, put it on the edge of the outer seal and sstrapped up. Seemed to help, still some leaks.

For those of you who use Macks (liberty or otherwise) what is the best thickness, location, etc? Width? Pics? How long do you use one ball before using another? Can you wash?

Thanks for the help. I'm off to search for Macks's a bit, but just thought you guys could help.

neverbetter · Post by **neverbetter** » Wed May 21, 2008 12:16 pm

I hope you can make it work. I find the Hybrid to be wonderful. I didn't do well with Liberty, but everyone is different. I need soft pillow, personally.
What's great about these masks is the fact that it teaches you to breathe through your nose for the most part, but you can breathe through your mouth when you need to.

Needsdecaf · Post by **Needsdecaf** » Wed May 21, 2008 12:57 pm

One thing I am finding odd is the sensation of air blowing on my mouth. Nasal pillows are great, no sensation at all other than the thing being stuck up your nose.

But with the Liberty, there's always a "breeze" on your lips. Guess I'll get used to it.

But if my leak rates are no better than the Opus, it's staying as "sick only" status.

TXKajun · Post by **TXKajun** » Wed May 21, 2008 3:04 pm

As far as the Mack's, I usually roll into about 1/8"-1/4" and flatten. It will last about a week around my cheeks, but only a night or 2 around my nose (I use an UMFF mask). Washing the mask will probably cause it to come off, expecially if you wash with hot water and do a little soak.

Good luck tonight.

Kajun

P.S.
Have you tried adjusting the mask AFTER you lay down?? Most of us, I think, have better luck getting rid of leaks if we adjust after laying down. Also, too tight is just as bad as too loose. Good luck.

Needsdecaf · Post by **Needsdecaf** » Thu May 22, 2008 6:33 am

Well...not a total and utter failure last night, but close.

Go to get ready for bed. Mack's rolled up on the mask. Do a couple of test fits, sit on the bed, feeling good. Wash up, hop in bed, strap up and start flowing.

I give it about 5 minutes before I lay back, turn off the lights and hit the pillow. My wife is away for work, so it's just me. Adjust the mask some more once I hit the pillow, things are pretty good. This is a bit before 11.

I wake up at 3:15 on my stomach. Not an unusual place to be since I have been sleeping with the Opus and it allows me to do it. But....no mask.

Not only no mask, but it's lying on the floor. With BOTH CLIPS UNDONE. And the machine is off (I'm not sure if auto off is activated or not, forgot to look, but I don't think so and furthermore the sock I use to cover up the Blue Lights of Death is askew. Hmm.

So I put the mask back on. But now, it's leaking. Not awfully, but still pretty decently.

I wake up at 4:45 to THE WORST dry mouth I have EVER experienced (and I have a couple of boozing nights to compete). Awful. Terrible. Now I know what people are complaining about! I have to take the mask off in order to get some water. But this time, I can't get the mask to seal worth a damn! On, off, reposition, in the nose, out of the nose, move the nares, ahhhhhh!!!!!!!

So the Opus kept me company until my son woke up at 6:15 (notice I did not abandon alltogether).

I downloaded the data this morning:

1) I slept from 10:50 until 1:50 with the mask in place. At some point, I took the whole thing off. I didn't just pull it off, I unclipped it AND unclipped the hose from the front! Weird. But when I woke up at 3:15, my mouth was fine.

2) I slept from 3:20 to 4:45 with it in place. Both sessions, my leak rate was almost dead flat. One or two spikes here or there, but much less than with my Opus.

3) The leak rate from the Opus portion of the session was normal.

4) During the time when the Liberty was on an functioning, my AHI was again very low, below 3. This is where my AHI normally is.

5) Obviously I don't feel any better than normal, but I don't feel any worse either.

Conclusions? Hard to make. I intended the Liberty to be my backup stuffy nose mask, with the Opus as my full time mask. I am trying to wear it to see if the reduction in mouth leaks makes me feel notably better. I cannot say that I know that for sure yet.

Also, I have to run higher humidification with the Liberty, for sure. My tongue is still funny and my lips are still chapped.

Finally, how the hell do you people sleep with a full face mask on? It would drive me NUTZ!!!

Thoughts?

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): hose, AHI, seal, auto

birdshell · Post by **birdshell** » Thu May 22, 2008 9:55 am

WOW! You are really to be commended for the attempts you are making. Please, for yourself and your family, keep up the good efforts! It will pay off.

Here are some of my thoughts:

1. I have never tried the Mack's silicone because the one thing I liked about the Liberty is that I had to do so little to adapt it. I do have to spend a bit of time adjusting and readjusting.

2. I ALWAYS put on a liberal amount of Chapstick before wearing the Liberty. It really, really helps. If I do not, then the mask is off and Chapstick is being applied within 2 minutes.

3. It isn't that unusual to remove a mask and turn off the machine. I did the same thing once, and I'm sure many others have as well. I felt silly that I had gone through the entire rigamarole to put it all on, and awoke to the mask beside me on the bed and the machine blowing.

You are still getting used to the whole business, and doing well, if I may say so.

IMHO, you shouldn't fret too much about not having a perfect night here and there; you will get to the point where you will solve these problems. A little bit of the therapy is still better than nothing. (4 hours is supposed to be considered compliance by insurance companies.)

4. Dry mouth is one of my banes, partly due to medications. I have, however, found that the use of thorough oral hygiene does help. I use a Sonicare toothbrush, floss, and use mouthwash.

This does seem to help me a great deal.

Of course, a glass of water with a straw can be next to the bed. Unclipping the hose from the front allows an entry for the straw through the mask. That means...no need to remove the mask if one needs to use the restroom or get a drink of water in the middle of the night.

5. That said, there must have been something bothering you before you removed the mask. Maybe it had just shifted a bit and the leak awoke you? I have found that slight shifts make me awaken and readjust the nasal pillows...which is what made me try the REAL pantyhose leg around the shaft of the nasal pillows.

6. If I wouldn't have to mouth-tape to use the Opus, it would be my first choice. I enjoy not having to use the whole mouth-tape procedure.

The Hybrid is another very similar mask; any chance that it would be similar but better choice? Both have the advantage of using nasal pillows.

May the force be with you in your quest for a full faced mask that works for you.

Karen

mch441 · Post by **mch441** » Thu May 22, 2008 10:10 am

ive been using a liberty since september and its really turned into my favorite mask ,used to be my swift II.ive kind of had the same issues that you've had and this is waht i did for them

1 the mouth seal leaking -when i first got mine i was still trying to force myself to breath thru my nose but found that if was sleeping on my back the seal leaked like crazy.just let yourself reelax and breath as naturally as you can dont try to concentrate on only thru your nose.when i got past that the leak seemed to dissapear

2 the nose pillows slipping and leaking -i dont know what the pantyhose trick is but what i did was make a circle out of a piece of tape an loop it around the stems of the nose pillows to keep then from seperating.i dont actually have them taped together the tape is kind of folded over on it self,its just there for support

3 dry mouth -i keep the humidfier turned all the way up no matter what mask i use i go thru about half as much water with the liberty then i do when i use my swift but i rarely wake up with a dry mouth

good luck with it it really is a nice mask once you get it right !!