Autopap questions & when do dreams come

[MoSleep]

Trying this one again. The last time I posted it got off on a tangent some how.
I have been on a bipap for a couple of months now. In the sleep studies I have had, the techs could not find a pressure to control my apneas. Would an autopap machine be advisable, considering that it sets its own pressure depending on the current needs of the user. Within user set limits. Are there any of the machines which display the nightly results on the screen of the machine? What can a person say to convince the doctor that self monitoring of the nightly results is in fact beneficial? The way it is I wake up several times during the night, I am very drowsy all day and can fall to sleep at any time I slow down for a minute or two. I have no idea why, pressures, leaks or what.
It seems that when I do drop off to sleep during the day, like when I try and read, that I go immediately into a dream and then my body jerks REALLY hard and I snap awake. No idea the cause. I was thinking that it took being asleep for awhile before dreams started. Any ideas??
Any comments and or help is appreciated.
Thanks
Dave

[IWannaSleep]

You can search the internet and find a lot of information about dreams. From what I have read, imho, not remembering a dream is not likely caused by sleep apnea. Also, since to remember a dream, you need to wake up during the dream, it seems to me you would be more likely to remember a dream without treatment since our apnea is causing you to awaken frequently.

Also, dream experts have published that your brain/mind requires dreaming to do filing and maintenance. They say if you were not dreaming you would become psychotic since this nightly maintenance could not happen. My guess is that if you were psychotic you would not be here asking these questions, so you are probably dreaming and just not remembering them.

I would be very wary of attributing too much, if anything, to the fact that you remember a dream or do not remember any.


Ron

[MoSleep]

Thanks for the response Ron. Actually my concern is not in remembering the dream. I am more curious about the dream occurring almost immediately upon drifting off to sleep. I thought that dreams occur later in the sleep stages. Probably no significance, I was just curious.
Dave

[IWannaSleep]

Hey Dave,

Yeah, it makes sense to think about all these things and ask all the questions. I think my earlier response was partly reacting to many other posts where people have stated they have started dreaming now that they are on xpap therapy. Having read these statements weeks ago I became curious and began researching it. My health care provider gives us extensive education on sleep apnea and this dreaming connection never was mentioned. The only mention of dreaming was that it happens during REM sleep.

After reading the various literature on the topic of dreaming I came to the conclusion this connection between xpap therapy and dreaming is coincidental at best. Especially now that I know if a person truly stopped dreaming they would become severely mentally ill. And that I now know most dreams are not remembered, just as we do not remember waking 30, 50, 100 or more times per hour as a result of our apneas.

I think the whole idea we have had to accept about waking so many times per hour, and that we are not doing such a basic thing as sleeping correctly, has us suspecting every little thing about our health and bodily functions.

I think all of us on this board are doing the right thing. Keeping the dialog open, asking questions, and sharing knowledge. I've been so impressed with the collective knowledge of this group. I'm so glad I found and joined it and feel lucky to be able to contribute, if only my opinion.


Ron

[Sleepless-in-QuadCities]

Dave, I also had daytime sleepiness where I would be sitting at my desk working one minute, then fall asleep and start dreaming almost instantaneously the next. The reason in my case was because of severe sleep apnea (55 episodes/hour according to my sleep study). I am no expert on sleep, but from what I have read about dreaming, dream sleep is there to keep us emotionally healthy. According to a Website on depression http://www.clinical-depression.co.uk/Un ... anding.htm dream sleep is where we keep ourselves mentally healthy, but not the deep sleep where our brains get their much needed rest. My obstructive sleep apnea was preventing my brain from getting the deep sleep it required to rest. It actually got so bad in my case that sometimes I would start hallucinating because of exhaustion. Also, I started talking in my sleep a lot. Your instantly going into a dream state sounds similar to my case prior to CPAP therapy. I would fall to sleep at the drop of a hat, and I thought I had narcolepsy.

Since my first night on CPAP, I have not fallen a sleep in the daytime even to nap these past two years. I was amazed at the almost immediate change, in my case. Obviously if you are still experiencing a lot of daytime sleepiness your BiPap machine is not working for you. Did you go to a sleep study? What are your BiPAP pressure settings? What does your doctor think about the fact you continue to suffer from sleepiness during the day?

Hope this helps, I have more to say, but I have to run to work.

-Mike

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): bipap, CPAP

[ahujudybear]

Just posted this on another thread and thought it might apply here as well....


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Can't remember where I learned this (Sleep Dr?) but REM stage of sleep usually comes after you have reached stages 3/4, and usually begins 90 minutes after falling asleep. If REM (Rapid Eye Movements - presumably dreaming) occurs much sooner than this, they consider it Narcolepsy.

I never reached REM level during the latency test, although I do remember dreaming. I will often dream as I'm falling asleep - especially during daytime naps. well, anyway that is my perception. It might be that I have been asleep for a few (5 or 10) minutes without realizing it and am waking up. This also happened during the MSLT but did not record as REM sleep, so maybe there are different levels of dreaming?

Oh! And I too take regular naps during the day whenever I can (maybe 10 to 20 minutes in AM & PM), but I have other problems that also cause fatigue. What other health problems do you have? I am always on the lookout for polio survivors who may not even know that they have had polio or understand all the ways it can affect them later in life.

Those body jerks are just your nerves and muscles finally relaxing. Sounds like you probably also have either RLS or PLMD or both.

- JB

[ozij]

I have been on a bipap for a couple of months now. In the sleep studies I have had, the techs could not find a pressure to control my apneas. Would an autopap machine be advisable, considering that it sets its own pressure depending on the current needs of the user.

You don't mention what you pressure is, and what the problem was setting it. Apneas that occur at pressures much higher than 10 might not be resolved by autopaps. Some autopaps will raise your pressure to the top limit when you snore, but might bulk at doing it so simply for apneas.

Are there any of the machines which display the nightly results on the screen of the machine?

Resmneds

What can a person say to convince the doctor that self monitoring of the nightly results is in fact beneficial?

Posted some suggestions in the previous thread.

The way it is I wake up several times during the night, I am very drowsy all day and can fall to sleep at any time I slow down for a minute or two. I have no idea why, pressures, leaks or what.

Certainly could be leaks - mask or mouth, or too low pressure.

It seems that when I do drop off to sleep during the day, like when I try and read, that I go immediately into a dream and then my body jerks REALLY hard and I snap awake. No idea the cause.

Is this with the mask or without it? In bed? If without the mask, I've read these jerks could be apnea induced awakenings.

O.

_Edited to add the word "read" to the last sentence
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[snoozeandlose]

I too, have experienced this sensation of instant dreaming. I know I do as I fall asleep since I may be napping during the day and can check the time when I awake. I have had the experience of listening to dialog of other people speaking--like they're on a TV show or radio program. Other times it is more like a dream with me actively involved in action of some kind. So when my sleep is more normal I fall asleep without the presleep dream stuff.