dry eyes again

MrRandom · Post by **MrRandom** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:15 am

Last night I woke up after only two hours and both my eyes were dry, but my right eye was so dry I could feel it scratching and it hurt. I had put bandaids plus tape to fill in the holes so I don't see how the mask could be leaking in there. But the night before I had left that off my eyes and kept being woke up by the mask leaking into my eyes. I put the same thing on and didn't have a problem the rest of the night.

I'm really at a loss here. Is it coming from the mask or is it coming from inside my sinus? I slept the rest of the night without CPAP last night and my eyes are still excessively dry. Is it the excessively dry weather? We have wild fires burning here it's so dry. Should I get a humidifier for the bedroom? Will that help? Should I see an eye doctor? What can they do? Would punctal plugs help?

I have ordered a mirage liberty ffm, will that help? I guess provided it fits me. I did try clipping my nose and just breathing through my mouth but my mouth became so dry it was unbearable, this even with the humidifier cranked all the way up.

sleepycarol · Post by **sleepycarol** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:55 am

I wonder if it could be in part due to allergies. We can become allergic at any age so just because it hasn't bothered you before doesn't mean that you haven't developed allergies. My eyes get really sensitive and dry during the spring months.

I would definitely seek medical attention for this problem. Even if it is due to the cpap it is possible that the doctor could steer you in the right direction of how to address it.

MrRandom · Post by **MrRandom** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:10 am

Yeah I do have a lot of allergies anyway. I think it's still too early for trees to be pollinating here. I've had dry eyes in the spring before, but not like this. Maybe just a tiny amount of air getting in them is all it takes I do have an appt with an opthamologist, but it'still a week away. I really want to sleep with the CPAP but I don't want to damage my eyes.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:01 am

You do need to see the eye doctor. If your eyes are too dry the corneas can be damaged. In the meanwhile, you can use the ointment at night and artificial tears in the daytime.

Taking decongestants also can dry your eyes, so that can be a factor if you take those. Activities that reduce blinking cause trouble too, such as looking at a computer screen, or reading. Try to blink more.

I have not tried the punctal plugs. That is something of a last resort. They can also cauterize the tear ducts to close them, even more of a last resort for me. I hate to do permanent changes of that sort.

I am very sorry to hear about your eye troubles as I suffer with this myself. For me it started as soon as I started with the CPAP, August 2006. It feels to me as if I have shampoo in my eyes, burning, blurry, watery. Oddly enough, when your eyes are dry, your system produces more tears to help, so you end up with tears rolling down your face. Unfortunately they don't help.

I had to call my eye doctor yesterday and beg to have her see me because things had gotten worse. Maybe if you call today the office can work in an appointment sooner.

There is a new product for artificial tears that is a prescription. She gave me a sample but won't prescribe it until I give it a week to see if it helps. It is called FreshKote. (I have no interest in the company, so I am not promoting it.) I only started with it late yesterday, so I can't even endorse it yet, but so far I think it is very promising.

I hope you find help and relief soon. I know how miserable this condition is.

Catnapper - Joanie

MrRandom · Post by **MrRandom** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:07 am

Thanks Joanie. I have completely cut out the decongestants. I've been trying to stay hydrated, drinking lots of water. That is how it started out for me too. Tons of tears pouring out of my eyes when using the CPAP. That was fine with me because it was no problem then. It seems now there are no tears left. I'm putting the OTC artificial tears in my eyes but seems they just disappear in 5 minutes. The ointment really seems to do no good at all. I'm going to get some eye wash. I think I'm also going to buy a humidifier for the bedroom. I think I'll just sleep without the CPAP for now. Unfortunately I've never seen this eye doc before so this was the soonest they could put me in as a new patient.

MrRandom · Post by **MrRandom** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:08 am

Oh yeah I too do not like the idea of permanent punctal plugs or burning those ducts off. I would be willing to try temporary plugs, but I have to wonder if the CPAP air would just blow them out. But yeah, I know what you mean, I do not like making permanent changes like that unless it's really necessary.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:00 am

I forgot to mention that my doctor suggested increasing Omega 3 oils in the form of supplements. Flax seed oils at the rate of 3000 mg a day. I looked it up on the 'net and there is lots to read about it. The Omega 3s are supposed to be good for you anyway, so what the heck?

I worried about the plugs being blown out by CPAP too. I could just imagine the plugs sticking out and scratching my eyes. Call me a wuss.

I didn't think the ointment helped when I first started using it. Now, I do. It feels more soothing. I try to put it in my eyes right on top of the tear ducts, with the theory that it might slow down some of the air damage. They all seem to have similar formulas, but I have been using Refresh PM lately. I worry about the preservatives. Optive has a preservative that disappears immediately when you put it in your eyes, or so I am told.

I have been using a nasal pillows mask, and just changed to the other kind of nasal mask, based on a suggestion by Arizona-Willie. Although I feel like pressure is pressure, he thinks that the blast straight up the nose is stronger than the more diffused pressure from the other kind of mask. The jury is still out for me. Only 3 days into the trial. I really prefer my other mask.

MrRandom · Post by **MrRandom** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:36 am

Yeah I do think flax oil is really good for you, and believe it or not I DO notice the water in my eyes as well as the saliva in my mouth feels...different when I use the flax oil. I guess better lubricating would be a good way to describe it. I usually have a smoothie every morning and add a teaspoon of organic flax oil to it. If I'm reading the bottle right, a teaspoon of it contains 2,720mg of Omega3 oil, which is far higher than a fish oil capsule. I hated the fish oil, it gave me fish breath all day, lol.

Anyway, thanks for the reminder. I've been forgetting to stick it in the smoothie lately and also haven't been having a smoothie as often. I think I'll have one now!

I guess that does make sense about the nasal pillows. I figure it's worth trying anyway see if it helps anything.

I'll try putting the ointment in the corner of my eye. I've just been using a generic walgreens or something. Dunno if it has preservatives, but you're right the less junk in my eyes the better!

Country4ever · Post by **Country4ever** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:57 pm

Mr. Random,
Is it possible that you are sleeping with your eyes partially open?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:41 pm

Anything's possible.

Catnapper · Post by **Catnapper** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:51 am

Here are some videos of people squirting milk out of their tear ducts. This is to show for sure that the tear ducts can leak air from the CPAP to the eyes.

Don't watch them if you are easily grossed out - warning. One man can squirt the milk from his tear ducts almost 2 feet!

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/milky ... cid=acvsv3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTfhiDYWHtM

MrRandom · Post by **MrRandom** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:11 am

So again last night the same problem. Within a couple hours my eyes became extremely dry and painful. They were so dry the lids stuck to my eyeballs.

I called the sleep lab. They said get a nasal pillow mask. I said it's on its way. They claimed the air going through the tear ducts is rare and told me that if that is happening then I'm out of luck and can't use the CPAP.

I don't understand how this wasn't a problem for the first few weeks and suddenly is now.

Arizona-Willie · Post by **Arizona-Willie** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:03 am

You may need to have the ducts plugged. My eye doc said they can do that but we didn't discuss it further. I figure that for a last ditch thing.

Fortunately, changing from my Hybrid ( with much regret ) back to my Activa mask seems to be alleviating the problem. I think pillow masks are more likely to cause the problem for some folks.

Hopefully you will get the problems resolved because untreated sleep apnea can kill.

JeffH · Post by **JeffH** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:09 am

I've had my tear ducts plugged (temporary ones) and don't see much help there for myself, but it may work OK for others. I still get air in my eyes.

An eye lubricating ointment is the only thing that has ever worked for me...every night. An Muro 128 is NOT a lubricating ointment.

MrRandom · Post by **MrRandom** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:01 pm

http://www.aafp.org/afp/990401ap/1871_f2.jpg

Looking at that image, I can see what you mean about the nasal pillows. Maybe when the mask gets here I'll just plug the nasal prongs and use my mouth. My main concern is upcoming surgery with anesthesia. Otherwise I've lived my life with sleep apnea with the worst adverse effect being constantly tired and fatigued. I want it treated, yeah, but not if it means permanently damaging my eyes

I don't know what Muro 128 is, but I have been using a generic ointment with 41.5% mineral oil and 56.8% white petrolatum. It has no effect. My eyes still dry out.

I'm off the CPAP until my eyes heal and actually start secreting their own tears again.

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