Temperature?

mmsiciliana · Post by **mmsiciliana** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:05 am

Hello Everyone,
I've browsed this site several times, but this is my first post. I'm amazed at how much you all know about your "numbers."
I was diagnosed wtih OSA in November, 2006. In January or February of 2007 I was introduced to the wonderful world of cpap through the hospital's dme. My machine is a Respironics REMStar Pro M Series. I've had it "into the shop" already once because I was lucky enough to get one of those leaking reservoirs...
My question...Is the air temperature that comes out of the hose supposed to be warm? I ask because I have a huge problem with rainout. I've tried the Aussie heated hose, the insulated crinkly plastic cover along with the soft snuggly cover and I am unable to use the humidifier at all on my machine without getting rainout. The air temperature that comes out of my machine is not warm, so it seems to me, that the rainout happens in my mask, not the tube, when the warm air that I'm exhaling meets the cooler air from my machine.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Maria

dllfo · Post by **dllfo** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:03 am

I would certainly think it would be warmer than ambient air. Easy to find out, put a thermometer at the mask end of the hose and take a reading....wear it for a couple of hours and check it again. The air coming out of my hose "feels" warmer. That is why we have an adjustment isn't it?

My HH is on a one all the time. So is my wife's. That works for us.

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:33 am

I understand that you have the integrated humidifier with you Remstar.

What is your pressure?

Set the machine/humidifier lower than your head level. On the floor, or near it.

Try to keep the hose in a more or less straight line down from your head to the humidifier, allowing condensation to drain back into the humidifier.

Turn down the humidifier setting by one to see if that has any effect.

Lower the fill level in the humidifier. Don't fill to the max point. Try different (lower) levels to see if that helps.

> I've had it "into the shop" already once because I was lucky enough to get one of those leaking reservoirs.
> The air temperature that comes out of my machine is not warm

Is it possible that your humidifier is not heating (or hardly at all)? After it has been running long enough to heat up (1 hr?), or immediately in the morning when you wake up, pull the water chamber out and put your finger on the heating element to see if it is warm.

A combination of these could be a problem, e.g., high pressure, too full water chamber, humidifier set at head level.

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:42 am

Rainout is worse when the pressure is low.

With an average pressure of about 6.5, I need:
A heated hose
A snuggle hose
And a cover to the tube that leads from my hose to my mask.

With too much humidity, the air coming out my hose will be warm, but I will still get rainout in the mask.

I cover the tube with 2 layers of tubular finger badages.
O.

Fredman · Post by **Fredman** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:52 pm

Excellent information and tips from all. I have to agree particularly on the point of ambient humidity level.

No matter how much you tweak the humidity temperature setting, the ambient air can only hold so much air and as it cools travelling down the tube, it condenses and voila...rainout. Generally the lower the ambient humidity, the more moisture can be held by that air. Keeping the air warm long enough to be taken into the mask is important. Some of the excess air is drafted out the vent holes, but the remaining stays in contact with mask itself which the surface can be cooler than the air and that is where it condenses.

That's why the soft tube covers, heated hoses, and positioning the machine lower than your head are good tips...they may not eliminate all together, but hopefully help make it less of a problem.

roster · Post by **roster** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:21 pm

What is the temperature in the room and what settings have you tried on the humidifier?

Fredman · Post by **Fredman** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:52 pm

64 degrees and setting #2, I will get some condensation. Setting # 3 caused way to much rain out - wet face etc.

mmsiciliana · Post by **mmsiciliana** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:58 pm

[quote="xyz"]I understand that you have the integrated humidifier with you Remstar.

What is your pressure?

Set the machine/humidifier lower than your head level. On the floor, or near it.

Try to keep the hose in a more or less straight line down from your head to the humidifier, allowing condensation to drain back into the humidifier.

Turn down the humidifier setting by one to see if that has any effect.

Lower the fill level in the humidifier. Don't fill to the max point. Try different (lower) levels to see if that helps.

> I've had it "into the shop" already once because I was lucky enough to get one of those leaking reservoirs.
> The air temperature that comes out of my machine is not warm

Is it possible that your humidifier is not heating (or hardly at all)? After it has been running long enough to heat up (1 hr?), or immediately in the morning when you wake up, pull the water chamber out and put your finger on the heating element to see if it is warm.

A combination of these could be a problem, e.g., high pressure, too full water chamber, humidifier set at head level.

roster · Post by **roster** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:08 pm

mmsiciliana wrote:........ I've had the humidifier dial turned to 0 and still get rainout. ......

At zero, the plate that warms the humidifier is turned completely off. As you increase the setting the plate gets warmer, the water gets warmer and evaporates faster providing more humidity through the hose.

Your room temperature is not cold, you say you use a hose cover, you are using the lowest moisture setting on the humidifier, you use a heated hose. You should be getting zero rainout. There must be something odd going on that you have not told us about.

I have been known to drool in the mask. And you? .

mmsiciliana · Post by **mmsiciliana** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:21 pm

rooster wrote:
mmsiciliana wrote:........ I've had the humidifier dial turned to 0 and still get rainout. ......
At zero, the plate that warms the humidifier is turned completely off. As you increase the setting the plate gets warmer, the water gets warmer and evaporates faster providing more humidity through the hose.

Your room temperature is not cold, you say you use a hose cover, you are using the lowest moisture setting on the humidifier, you use a heated hose. You should be getting zero rainout. There must be something odd going on that you have not told us about.

I have been known to drool in the mask. And you? .

roster · Post by **roster** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:35 pm

Room temperatures in the fifties are prime conditions for rainout. Your hose is either heated or insulated by the hose cover so this is helping to prevent rainout in the hose. The mask itself is not insulated so this is where one would expect rainout to first occur.

The solution is probably a combination of keeping the room warmer and insulating the mask.

xyz · Post by **xyz** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:51 pm

> I run a ceiling fan all night, though, because I can't stand the noise of listening to myself breathe in and out.

Here's a trick. Sleep on your side (which is better anyway since it allows lower pressure) and use _one_ ear plug (in the ear that's "up"). The ear that's down is blocked by the pillow, so it's no problem, sound-wise.

I've found that the ones that have a curved end (not a flat end) insert easier and stay in better.

After inserting, allow the foam to expand for a few seconds, then give it a _tiny_ tug outward to relieve the pressure from the ear plug. This cuts sound significantly.

I've been doing this so long that I can turn over, remove and reinsert the ear plug, and go back to sleep quickly.

> temperature gets down into the 50s

That will do it.

> I've had the humidifier dial turned to 0

That means no heat at all. Try it on 3 (the middle setting) for a couple of nights, and then adjust it up or down from there.

Where is your machine and humidifier located, high or low?

mmsiciliana · Post by **mmsiciliana** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:11 pm

[quote="xyz"]> I run a ceiling fan all night, though, because I can't stand the noise of listening to myself breathe in and out.

Here's a trick. Sleep on your side (which is better anyway since it allows lower pressure) and use _one_ ear plug (in the ear that's "up"). The ear that's down is blocked by the pillow, so it's no problem, sound-wise.

I've found that the ones that have a curved end (not a flat end) insert easier and stay in better.

After inserting, allow the foam to expand for a few seconds, then give it a _tiny_ tug outward to relieve the pressure from the ear plug. This cuts sound significantly.

I've been doing this so long that I can turn over, remove and reinsert the ear plug, and go back to sleep quickly.

> temperature gets down into the 50s

That will do it.

> I've had the humidifier dial turned to 0

That means no heat at all. Try it on 3 (the middle setting) for a couple of nights, and then adjust it up or down from there.

Where is your machine and humidifier located, high or low?