Help -- please clarify M Series Plus Vs. Pro claim true????

[TossinNTurnin]

OK, I've got my doc to specificity the M Series Pro instead of the Plus.

But, I had a discussion with the tech sleep tech who said that although the PlUS might not give ME the AHI, leak rate and snore information, but when THEY down load the information off the smart card ... THEY are able to see the AHI, leak and snore info....

Is that accurate????

I see nowhere in any of the descriptions regarding the MSeries PLUS vs the PRO that the plus give anything BUT basic compliance information.

Thanks for your wisdom in advaice

TNT

[6PtStar]

Yes the plus won't give you anything except the hours of usage even if it has a card (most don't). The Pro gives all data.

Jerry

[jasper]

You are correct. The Plus will give only compliance info. I was initially unaware of the difference when I went in for my first follow-up. I asked for the AHI , leak rate etc. and learned then that it is not availble on the Plus.

[TossinNTurnin]

OK, I understand that the PLUS I have won't give ME the data... (via the LCD screen ...)

But the lab technician is claiming that, apparently through their software, THEY will be able to obtain AHI, leak info from the Machine.

That's what I'm trying to understand... that even if I had the PLUS ... does it STORE the AHI, LEAK info... even if I can't have access too it. But it's "there" and can only be downloaded by the sleeplab/doc?

I am STILL switching to the PRO version... I would like to be able to check my leak rate etc....

But, the tech even went so far as to tell me to keep the old (M series Plus) Smart Card so she can "prove" to me the data is the same between the Plus and Pro....

[Wulfman]

OK, I understand that the PLUS I have won't give ME the data... (via the LCD screen ...)

But the lab technician is claiming that, apparently through their software, THEY will be able to obtain AHI, leak info from the Machine.

That's what I'm trying to understand... that even if I had the PLUS ... does it STORE the AHI, LEAK info... even if I can't have access too it. But it's "there" and can only be downloaded by the sleeplab/doc?

I am STILL switching to the PRO version... I would like to be able to check my leak rate etc....

But, the tech even went so far as to tell me to keep the old (M series Plus) Smart Card so she can "prove" to me the data is the same between the Plus and Pro....

If you truly have the "Plus" model, you could make a bet with this person for whatever you want to collect......and you would win the bet.
The Plus model won't produce data it does NOT collect......and all the Plus collects is the hours slept......PERIOD.

This tech is either very stupid or very naive. If she tries to prove it, make sure you keep an eye on your card so it doesn't gets switched for one that had been collecting data in a REAL data-capable model.

Den

[TossinNTurnin]

Thanks Wulfman... Yes, I definitely have the M Series Plus (with Cflex) at the moment, with "basic compliance" and smart card.

That's what I was thinking...

Essentially that's what I was asking... does the PLUS collect the data (AHI, Leak Snore) at ALL. From all I read, it doesn't.

Quite frankly I'm quite shocked by her claim.

And that's a good idea that I keep an eye on the "old" card. Perhaps I'll put a little "+" sign on the front of the card so there's no confusing them.

[DreamStalker]

By now you should realize that the DME who gave you the stupid machine (plus model) cares more about their business profit than your health. If it was really a sleep lab tech who told you that they can squeeze efficacy data from the stupid machine, then I would also begin to question the accuarcy of your titration (especially if the techs are one and the same) ... in which case you should be fighting for an APAP since you will likely have to adjust your titrated pressure to get proper treatment. If the DME and the sleep clinic are all affiliated ... well then that would explain everything.

[TossinNTurnin]

By now you should realize that the DME who gave you the stupid machine (plus model) cares more about their business profit than your health. If it was really a sleep lab tech who told you that they can squeeze efficacy data from the stupid machine, then I would also begin to question the accuarcy of your titration (especially if the techs are one and the same) ... in which case you should be fighting for an APAP since you will likely have to adjust your titrated pressure to get proper treatment. If the DME and the sleep clinic are all affiliated ... well then that would explain everything.

Well, yes, I was "referred" to my DME by the sleep lab.

I did ask about the APAP, but the sleep tech said that the doctor did not prescribe the Auto, so they said "no".

I have my follow up visit with the doctor on Feb 4th.

If I'm able to talk the DOCTOR into changing the script to APAP, will it be too late for the DME to switch it out?

Or should I be driving up to the Doctor's office now and insist he change the script?

And how do I go about getting my titration study? Should I ask the DME for it, or the Doctor?

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): Titration, DME, auto, APAP

[SleepySparky]

Now do not take my word for it, but it is too my understanding with everything I read before purchasing my M Series Pro, that the Plus does not record anything but compliance data. So if it does not record it, then the tech can not get it off the card, because it will not be there. I can not swear to that but that is what I understood.

The following is from the Repironics site regarding the m series Plus:
here is the link:
http://remstarplusmseries.respironics.com/
REMstar® Plus M Series with C-Flex™


The REMstar Plus M Series with C-Flex offers optional integrated humidification, optional Encore Pro SmartCard capability for basic compliance and reporting, lighted controls, an easy-to-read display and the revolutionary comfort of C-Flex. This device redefines the entry-level CPAP market.

The new platform design is convenient for travel with and without the integrated humidifier. The standard travel carry case has been updated with a new sleeker look. Optional travel accessories are also available for packing the device in a suitcase and for use when traveling internationally or when a portable battery or DC adapter is required.



Features

Proven patient comfort of C-Flex
Digital Auto-Trak™ Sensitivity tracks and responds to each breath to trigger C-Flex
Small and sleek design with true consumer appeal
Unobtrusive tubing connection on back of unit
Primary, tactile control buttons for easy on/off, ramp and C-Flex setting change
Primary buttons have backlight for easy activation, even in the dark
Covered LCD display for advanced settings and reporting of therapy statistics and patient reminders
Optional integrated heated or pass-over humidification platform
Optional Encore® Pro SmartCard® capability for basic compliance reporting
Enhanced compliance reporting statistics include humidification use and C-Flex setting
Deluxe ramp capabilities allow a 0 - 45 minute time period with a patient-adjustable ramp start pressure
Lightweight device weighs just over 2 lbs.
Slide-resistant bottom pads to prevent device movement during sleep
3-position altitude compensation
Extremely quiet operation
4 - 20 cm H2O pressure range
DC operation
Washable pollen filters and optional ultra-fine filters
2-year warranty
Optional travel accessories

Maybe I am not understanding correctly, but I am not seeing that the machine records anything but compliance data. Just my two cents.
Tina

[Slinky]

FAX the sleep lab a WRITTEN REQUEST for a copy of the dictated results of your sleep study AND titration study (if you weren't given one) AND a copy of the full data summary report (about 5-7 pages) w/condensed graphs from each. As is the case w/a copy of your equipment order, these are part of your medical records and you have a legal right to those copies via HIPAA.

[DreamStalker]

By now you should realize that the DME who gave you the stupid machine (plus model) cares more about their business profit than your health. If it was really a sleep lab tech who told you that they can squeeze efficacy data from the stupid machine, then I would also begin to question the accuarcy of your titration (especially if the techs are one and the same) ... in which case you should be fighting for an APAP since you will likely have to adjust your titrated pressure to get proper treatment. If the DME and the sleep clinic are all affiliated ... well then that would explain everything.

Well, yes, I was "referred" to my DME by the sleep lab.

I did ask about the APAP, but the sleep tech said that the doctor did not prescribe the Auto, so they said "no".

I have my follow up visit with the doctor on Feb 4th.

If I'm able to talk the DOCTOR into changing the script to APAP, will it be too late for the DME to switch it out?

Or should I be driving up to the Doctor's office now and insist he change the script?

And how do I go about getting my titration study? Should I ask the DME for it, or the Doctor?

If you are in less than a month, you are most likely in a rental period (or rent to own). So long as you have not signed any papers to"purchase" the machine you still have the option of getting your APAP.

Ask you doc for a copy of the lab study report (tell the doc you want all of it not just the summary). Ask the doc for the Rx. The doc must give you both the report and the Rx by law. With Rx in hand you can find a DME willing to cooperate or even go thru our forum sponsor and get yourself an APAP.

Start educating yourself on the fast track by reading the links under the yellow light bulb at the top of the forum web page and visit here often and read read read. An educated patient is harder to bend over the barrel.

[Wulfman]

And, don't let the doctors or DMEs try to bully or intimidate you.
You're paying them so, THEY WORK FOR YOU.


Den

[TossinNTurnin]

I can't thank you all enough for your help.

I only picked up my machine on Jan 2nd, so it's less than 30 days... I'm not sure about the "rental" thing, but the DME seem to be willing to switch the Plus out for the Pro.

I have called the sleep clinic and asked for ALL of my sleep study (not just the summary) and the RX.

I'm going up to the Sleep Clinic's office tomorrow to pick them up.

I will probably bring the smart card and have her "prove" to me there is AHI, Leak and Snore Data from the "Plus" (which we know there won't be)

What concerns me, as someone pointed out, is if they really are so inexperienced that they don't know the difference between those two machines, then I can't help but wonder about their competency and therefore the accuracy of the Titration study is in question as far as I'm concerned.

And if they DO know the difference, and they're "misleading" me.... well, I don't know which is worse.

I mentioned to the sleep clinician that since I was diagnosed with diabetes, I'm on a diet and expect to be losing weight, therefore an APAP may be in order.

She just said "that's not what the Dr. prescribed". I said he didn't know about the diabetes at that time, he didn't have all the information. If I lose weight and my pressure needs changes, wouldn't an APAP be in order.

She said, well, "when you've lost the weight, you'll come back in for a study."

BTW... I'm using the term "sleep clinician", but I think the person I talked to at the sleep clinic was the person who downloads the Xpap data and likely is the one that scores the study as well. I'm not sure what her title would be. I just wanted to clarify.

I'll have to confirm that tomorrow.

[Slinky]

... I only picked up my machine on Jan 2nd, so it's less than 30 days... I'm not sure about the "rental" thing, but the DME seem to be willing to switch the Plus out for the Pro.

One way to find out for sure, call your insurance company and ask them their procedure for paying for DME CPAP devices: do they purchase outright immediately or do they insist on a one month or more rental before purchase?

... I have called the sleep clinic and asked for ALL of my sleep study (not just the summary) and the RX.

I'm going up to the Sleep Clinic's office tomorrow to pick them up.

Be forewarned: HIPAA does give them the right to charge a "reasonable fee" for copies altho very few sleep labs do actually charge for them. And also be forewarned that asking for the full data COULD involve almost 1000s of pages of squiggly graphs in timed segments. That is why I usually say "full data summary report w/condensed graphs". (All those timed segment graphs from the night are each condensed into one 8 hour graph for whatever it is tracking, EEG, etc.)

... I will probably bring the smart card and have her "prove" to me there is AHI, Leak and Snore Data from the "Plus" (which we know there won't be)

What concerns me, as someone pointed out, is if they really are so inexperienced that they don't know the difference between those two machines, then I can't help but wonder about their competency and therefore the accuracy of the Titration study is in question as far as I'm concerned.

Many sleep techs who actually do the titrations have little to no experience w/the various brands and models of "home" CPAPs. The xPAPs used during titrations are more sophisticated that those usually scripted for home use. The tech doing the titration often is not even the same tech who does the scoring of the sleep evaluation and titration studies. One does not have to be an RPSGT to do the titration but one MUST be an RPSGT to do the scoring to be best of my knowledge.

... And if they DO know the difference, and they're "misleading" me.... well, I don't know which is worse.

No question in my mind. I would understand their possibly not knowing the difference .. BUT TO DELIBERATELY mislead me if ... unforgettable and darn near unforgiveable.

I mentioned to the sleep clinician that since I was diagnosed with diabetes, I'm on a diet and expect to be losing weight, therefore an APAP may be in order.

She just said "that's not what the Dr. prescribed". I said he didn't know about the diabetes at that time, he didn't have all the information. If I lose weight and my pressure needs changes, wouldn't an APAP be in order.

She said, well, "when you've lost the weight, you'll come back in for a study."

To which I might sweetly reply: I'm not sure that this is where I would want to return for any further sleep studies or titrations given the misinformation I've received so far.

And I'd also sweetly add that as far as insurance was concerned a bare-bones, compliance data only, CPAP "and" a fully data capable autoPAP are the EXACT SAME HCPCS CODE and are reimbursed by insurances by the same code and at the same contracted price so the ONLY one being protected from the patient being provided w/a fully data capable autoPAP is the DME supplier BY THE DOCTOR's generic script! Whose best interests is this sleep doctor concerned with? Well, that last question ceases to be diplomatic and probably shouldn't be said. Besides, probably most sleep doctors haven't any idea of all the options these newer CPAPs can provide. They rely on the DME suppliers to provide the "best" xPAP to meet the needs they scripted: x amount of pressure w/x amount or no expiration pressure relief.

[DreamStalker]

What's worse is when they are both misleading you and incompetent! Seems to be more of the norm than the exception

EDIT: ... and if they have stairs ... do what Slinky does and sweetly push them down a flight or two!!!