ethics?

jum001 · Post by **jum001** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:32 pm

I'm not sure what to do. I bought a mask on an auction which shall be nameless. It was advertised as never used and in original packaging. When it arrived, it was not in the box and the plastic bag doesn't look like original packaging to me. It looks like someone used a sealing machine like the ones I've seen recommended to keep food fresh. The problem is, I can't be positive. Asking the seller wouldn't do much good if this is a fraud. Posting negative feedback would be a disservice if it is not a fraud. What should I do?

As to the mask, I am squeamish. I don't know if I will ever use it.

Julie

jsmythe · Post by **jsmythe** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:57 pm

jum001 wrote:I'm not sure what to do. I bought a mask on an auction which shall be nameless. It was advertised as never used and in original packaging. When it arrived, it was not in the box and the plastic bag doesn't look like original packaging to me. It looks like someone used a sealing machine like the ones I've seen recommended to keep food fresh. The problem is, I can't be positive. Asking the seller wouldn't do much good if this is a fraud. Posting negative feedback would be a disservice if it is not a fraud. What should I do?

As to the mask, I am squeamish. I don't know if I will ever use it.

Julie

I am not sure that I have answer for you Julie, but I would like to say that I had a similar experience last week. I bought a mask on ----auction, that was advertised as "used more than one night", and "sanitized". What the seller DID NOT mention, was that it was totally worn out and old! the mask was discolored yellow which tells me it had age on it, and the headgear was faded and frayed terribly. Man, did I get burned on that one! And what could I do? It was advertised as "used". I think maybe , if I were in your particular position, I would contact the head of the auction site and at least let them be aware of this situation. You probably won't get $$ back, but at least you would get peace of mind. As for the mask, you can sanitize it and it would be ok to use. But I can understand your feelings on this . I would be the same way.

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:00 pm

There is no ethics involved in your question IMO. You are either satisfied or you are not and you can provide feedback based on your satisfaction or not.

As for the mask, all you need to do is soak it in 1 to 3 parts vinegar to water solution for half an hour or more then wash with soapy water and rinse well ... squeamish cooties all gone

jsmythe · Post by **jsmythe** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:09 pm

" ... squeamish cooties all gone "....well said Dreamstalker.....

Joyce

kteague · Post by **kteague** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:10 pm

Joyce, in your case I would certainly feel justified to post feedback and just say that you didn't expect used to mean yellowed and frayed. At the very least, inform the site hosts. If it's a repeated problem, maybe the auction site needs to require a condition statement on used items.

My daughter and her husband sell online for a living. Negative feedback can be sometimes unjustified or at least mitigated, but the process does keep everyone on their toes.

Kathy

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:22 pm

Julie You can also order the "CONTROL 11" from cpap.com and give it a HOSPITAL SANITATION! I bought some just for that purpose of buying USED masks, I will not use a used mask without it !

sleepycarol · Post by **sleepycarol** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:24 pm

If you paid for your auction using Paypal file a not as described complaint. I do know that if you purchase items off from eBay you can file a dispute through eBay and ultimately with Paypal and recoup your money in most cases.

I am going to assume it is the same with cpapauction as well.

Have you tried contacting the seller?
What was the sellers feedback like prior to buying off from them. The rule of thumb is you want to deal with sellers with at least a 99% positive feedback. It they drop below that you must weigh carefully what types of problems they have encountered with past buyers.

If you used a credit card you can also file a dispute with the credit card company.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:03 pm

Curiousity would get the best of me - What I would do is contact the manufacturer or a DME and find out if the packaging is used. Id start with a phone call and a description to a DME or Man. and if that didnt see to be descriptive enough Id be tempted to even bring it into a DME, and ask them to pull one from their stock to compare packaging they probably wont mind and what do you have to lose. Id have to know so Id at least make the call. Many manufacturers dont uses sealable plastic but ziplocs bags with the name on it or other labeled packaging. GL

Perchancetodream · Post by **Perchancetodream** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:04 pm

Okay, here is the flip side of your ethical concern. Don't you feel an obligation to express your concerns about this purchase so that other buyers don't get taken? I mean, don't you usually check the ratings that a seller has earned as well as any comments about him/her before you make a bid?

So, don't we owe each other some kind of honesty in our comments? You are not saying that you know this is a used mask, but that you were not comfortable that it arrived in its original packaging, as promised.

Hard to go wrong when you are just telling the truth as you see it.

Susan

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:55 am

Here's what my criteria would be:

Did you get a good deal?
Is it a useable item?

If both answers are "yes", then I'd go ahead and use it after the usual cleaning and chalk it up to "experience". Depending on the circumstances, you may make a mental note not to buy from this seller again.

My 2 cents worth.

Den

sleepycarol · Post by **sleepycarol** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:06 am

Without the auction sites I would not be able to afford many of the masks that I now have.

I have accumulated a collection without a lot of expense and each of the masks were very reasonable that I have purchased. Some of the masks have been used but in good condition. I have cleaned them per instruction on here with hot soapy water and a soak. At first I was hesitant to use the masks and was kind of squimish as well with the thought of used masks and using them. But the way I look at it-- I go to restaurants and eat and am using utensils that someone else has had in their mouth. I don't think anything about using that silverware or drinking from that cup. To me that put things into perspective.

I have ended up with some very good deals on my masks and I am not sorry about my purchases. I have checked the sellers feedback carefully, read the description thoroughly, and have compared the bid price with the cost of new. In this way I can make an informed decision. I also pay using PayPal for added protection (although I am unsure coverage outside of eBay).

Buying from an auction site can be summed up in a a few words -- Buyer Beware!!! Yet, most sellers are very honest and do a great job with their descriptions and merchandise.

jsmythe · Post by **jsmythe** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:55 am

kteague wrote:Joyce, in your case I would certainly feel justified to post feedback and just say that you didn't expect used to mean yellowed and frayed. At the very least, inform the site hosts. If it's a repeated problem, maybe the auction site needs to require a condition statement on used items.

My daughter and her husband sell online for a living. Negative feedback can be sometimes unjustified or at least mitigated, but the process does keep everyone on their toes.

Kathy

Thank you Kathy, this was my first experience of buying used mask online, and I guess it kinda turned me against it temporarily. The guy should have made a statement like," this mask would be good for parts" or something to tell buyer it was not in good condition. Instead of just trying to get rid of it with a profit. Thank you SleepyCarol also, you helped me change my mind on buying used equipment. Yes, some very good deal come from buying used stuff. That was why I purchased it . I guess I just got a bum deal that time. Will be more careful the next time.

Joyce

tomjax · Post by **tomjax** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:40 am

Why oh why do some equate used with lethal??

Even if it was used, what is the risk??

This is nothing but being anal.

Soap and water and use it.

jum001 · Post by **jum001** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:43 am

Thanks everyone. As to the feedback, I am going to check out original packaging and be guided by the results. I was hesitant as it currrently is 100% positive with 12 transactions. I will also hospital sterilize the mask and use it.

Julie

DreamDiver · Post by **DreamDiver** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:02 pm

There's a difference between 'used' and 'worn out.' In jsmythe's case, it sounds like the mask was actually worn out. If I bought a used mask that had all the spring stretched out of it's frayed straps and yellow, lifeless silicone parts, I'd be more than just peeved - especially if I paid more than a fifth what a new one was worth on CPAP.com. If the only reason for getting rid of it is because it's so old you cannot use it, the seller should disclaim in the auction description that it's probably only good for parts. This isn't just about cooties. If you can't wear it, not because it's uncomfortable or doesn't fit from the outset but because it's too worn out, don't sell it as if someone could actually use it. The karma will bite you.

Then there are the DME's. While we're talking about cooties, why the heck don't they give you a loaner to try out before you buy it? They let you try them on in the office before you buy it. But that's not the same as sleeping with the darned thing on. Why not give me a week-long loaner? I'd pay five or ten dollars to 'rent' a loaner for a week before actually buying it. My DME says they aren't allowed to sell used ones. They say they aren't allowed to let people use used ones. But they sanitize them before they let us try the ones on in the office - and they are definitely used, and frayed. As far as I'm concerned, DME's use the 'sanitary defense' (cooties) as a way to make you buy something that may or may not work. Then you cannot get your money back because, 'Oh, it has cooties now.'

I want DME's to provide loaner masks until I find one that satisfies my needs. I want to be able to buy a used mask at the DME - and inspect it before I buy it to rest assured that what I'm getting is what I'm willing to pay for. But that's not going to happen, is it? They don't make enough money that way. Thank you DME's for putting profit before humanity, comfort and health.

Worse, I despise the way they sell you the package, but make you pay the higher per-part prices. I'm just waiting for a bolt of lighting to 'ZOT' these folks.

Whoa, was that bitter or what? Sorry - just venting at 9 cm pressure...

ethics?

ethics?

Re: ethics?

Auction feedback

JUM001

Re: Auction feedback

used stuff

Used vs. Worn out and the 'sanitation defense' (cooties)

Mask

Mask