Light therapy

[magpie]

Has anyone here had any luck with light therapy?

I just took a circadian Rythum assessment test and it indicates that I might be helped by light therapy. I always thought this treatment was for SAD only but it seems that it can help with sleep problems if they are related to melatonin/seratonian production.

The assessment indicates that I have Bimodal Rhythm Disorder (BCR). BCRcreates more than one sleep cycle but they may not be pronounced enough to allow sleep and because it disrupts the normal body clock it can cause the body to produce the wrong hormones at the wrong time of day. This can lead into SAD, insomnia and mood disorders. It can also cause an elvation in cortisol levels which can cause a whole lot of medical problems including osteoporosis (which I am fighting). So I am looking into buying a light box to see if it will help with my sleep problems. Unfortunately they are a bit pricey. While I want to get my insommia under control and would prefer not using sleep medication this $250 for a light box that MAY OR MAY NOT HELP is a little hard to justify at this time. I have spent so much money on my sleep problem since the study in June.

[jimbassett]

My sleep Dr suggested I use light therapy when I awake too early in the morning. He doesn't want me napping during the day either trying to reset my circadian clock. He suggested the bright white of my computer screen (I have a flat screen) would do the same thing. I found it does work and I am gradually sleeping later in the morning. YMMV jim

[magpie]

Interesting that you mentioned the computer screen. I tend to use my computer after dinner till about 11 pm and am now wondering if I should change this but that would mean no more evening chats LOL

[mindy]

Hi,

I've been on "SAD lights" for over 10 years .... the light wavelengths are not the same as a computer screen although for some it's possible that any light may cheer them up. I certainly find that lighting up my home in the winter evenings is much cheerier and therefore I feel better.

However, if I skip my morning dose of SAD lights (1/2 hour with a special visor - cost about $200), then I end up sliding downhill very fast. I was diagnosed by a doc who specialized in this disorder.

There are different levels of SAD -- full blown and then a range of "sub-syndromal SAD". I've read that in the northern latitudes in the US, approximately 60% of the population suffers from SSAD (all versions of SAD) though the percentage with full SAD is lower.

Now aren't you sorry you asked

Mindy

[RosemaryB]

I've used a light box for a few years and it does help. I was hoping that being on cpap would take away the need to do this, but I'm noticing those SAD symptoms creeping up as the days shorten. But maybe next year I will be better.

One other thing might be to get outside first thing in the a.m. This doesn't quite get the time-of-day thing right, but I've heard it helps. This is because it is the intensity of the light (not just the wavelength) that is most important. Outside, even on an overcast day is much, much brighter than inside lighting. If you do it first thing, it can help somewhat.

[JZ]

Magpie,

I have not used light therapy, but have read that it is helpful to some. I am going to a Cognitive Behavioral Therapist who is helping me with insomnia (too early to tell yet how much it is helping). She strongly recommends going outside shortly after sunrise as mentioned above by Rosemary. She and other insomnia specialists also strongly recommend against using the computer just before bedtime or if you get up during the night. The computer screen probably is not similar to a light box, but nonetheless the light from it and other electronics do stimulate wakefulness. There was an interesting thread on this forum awhile back about the bright blue lights on the RemStar CPAP machines and how that is a poor choice on the manufacturer's part for a machine that is supposed to help you sleep - lol.

Good luck -- Insomnia is a real bummer.

Janna

[magpie]

I thank all for their imput. The Roserum isn't working. I'm still getting up several times a night. I do not want to go on the addictive type of medicines. The sleep CD seemed to be the most effective... It didn't keep me asleep but put me back to sleep quickly. Unfortunately lately it is making me feel nervous so I have stoped using it for a while. I will try doing the early morning outside thing beginning tomorrow. The problem is that according to the assesment I have several circadian cycles per day instead of just the one and it says that is why I'm getting up at night. The treatment plan says to avoid light before 9am and then use it every 3-4 hours between 9am and 6:30pm. It is dark here by 5:30 so going outside isn't an option for that time period. I think I will try the light. Bite the bullet so to speak. I can always sell the thing on E-bay if it doesn't work.

Janna, where can I find a cognitive behavioral therapist to treat my insomnia?

[JZ]

magpie,

My sleep doctor referred me to the cognitive behavioral therapist, so I did not have to search around. Here is a website that might help you locate one:

http://www.nacbt.org/searchfortherapists.asp

I tried using the search for my city and my therapist was not on the list. Maybe she does not belong to this organization.

Here is a link to a book that my therapist had me read (The Insomnia Answer -- Paul Glovinsky, Ph.D.):

http://tinyurl.com/ytrn36

You can google cognitive behavioral therapy and get lots of information -- some of which you can do yourself without a therapist.

Good luck. Let us know how you do and how the light box works if you get one.

Janna

[RosemaryB]

magpie,

My sleep doctor referred me to the cognitive behavioral therapist, so I did not have to search around. Here is a website that might help you locate one:

http://www.nacbt.org/searchfortherapists.asp

I tried using the search for my city and my therapist was not on the list. Maybe she does not belong to this organization.

Here is a link to a book that my therapist had me read (The Insomnia Answer -- Paul Glovinsky, Ph.D.):

http://tinyurl.com/ytrn36

You can google cognitive behavioral therapy and get lots of information -- some of which you can do yourself without a therapist.

Good luck. Let us know how you do and how the light box works if you get one.

Janna

The book looks good. People talk to me a lot about sleep these days (I'm kind of a sleep disorders magnet). I'll keep it in mind to recommend.

Not so sure about the therapists. The ones in my state didn't look like they had very good credentials. I look for a licensed social worker, counselor, or psychologist. The folks I saw were "psychotherapists" which is not necessarily bad, but in itself doesn't give a credential. None of them appeared to have a license in one of these fields.

Not that a license makes a good therapist, just like an MD license doesn't make a good doctor. But I wouldn't go to a doctor who didn't have a license to practice medicine. (Many people are called doctors, like a person with a PhD or EdD). At least it means a certain level of training and legal recourse if something goes wrong.

[JZ]

Rosemary,

You gave good advice about checking out a therapist before going to him or her. I know you can't tell is the therapist is a good one purely by looking at their credentials and licensure, but that plus looking at their experience at least gives something of a picture.

I was pleasantly surprised when I googled my cognitive behavior therapist. She is a PhD psychologist who did an internship at the Yale School of Medicine. She has tons of experience working with chronic disease and insomnia in adults, particularly older adults, has been a co-investigator in several NIH and NIMH funded studies, and has published quite a bit in the field.

All of that background made me willing to go to her, but I could not really determine the quality of her work until I started seeing her. I feel lucky that I seem to have found someone who really knows the field of cognitive behavioral therapy and insomnia.

I am fortunate in having good set of health care professionals who have worked with me over the past year about sleep issues. Now, if I could just figure out how to find a talented, reliable, honest auto mechanic!!

Janna

[WearyOne]

I thank all for their imput. The Roserum isn't working. I'm still getting up several times a night.

Magpie, have you tried Melatonin? You can get the delayed release version that's supposed to help you if you're waking up during the night, as it's released over the course of the night, rather than all at once when you first take it. My sleep doctor recommended this for me, but I haven't tried it yet. (Rozerum didn't work for me very well either.)

Pam

[Slinky]

... She and other insomnia specialists also strongly recommend against using the computer just before bedtime or if you get up during the night. The computer screen probably is not similar to a light box, but nonetheless the light from it and other electronics do stimulate wakefulness. There was an interesting thread on this forum awhile back about the bright blue lights on the RemStar CPAP machines and how that is a poor choice on the manufacturer's part for a machine that is supposed to help you sleep - lol.

Did you read yesterday's news headline here, "When Counting Sheep Doesn't Work, Respironics Wants ..."?

Respironics has bought into light therapy! Seriously. They really have.

In October, Respironics acquired Apollo Light Systems, which manufactures the briteLITE and other light therapy products.

I know that when I wake during the night and get up to go to the bathroom I can NOT turn a light on to do so. If I do I can forget about going back to sleep for an hour or two 'cause it "ain't" a gonna happen! W/three dogs sleeping in our bedroom THAT can be a challenge. Fortunately, our new bed has a high footboard so I can grasp that, place my feet slowly and carefully, then reach the tall dresser, the bathroom door, the sink cabinet and the wall next to the toilet. Going back to bed is in reverse order.

[RosemaryB]

[quote="JZ"]Rosemary,

You gave good advice about checking out a therapist before going to him or her. I know you can't tell is the therapist is a good one purely by looking at their credentials and licensure, but that plus looking at their experience at least gives something of a picture.

I was pleasantly surprised when I googled my cognitive behavior therapist. She is a PhD psychologist who did an internship at the Yale School of Medicine. She has tons of experience working with chronic disease and insomnia in adults, particularly older adults, has been a co-investigator in several NIH and NIMH funded studies, and has published quite a bit in the field.

All of that background made me willing to go to her, but I could not really determine the quality of her work until I started seeing her. I feel lucky that I seem to have found someone who really knows the field of cognitive behavioral therapy and insomnia.

I am fortunate in having good set of health care professionals who have worked with me over the past year about sleep issues. Now, if I could just figure out how to find a talented, reliable, honest auto mechanic!!

Janna

[JZ]

I know that when I wake during the night and get up to go to the bathroom I can NOT turn a light on to do so. If I do I can forget about going back to sleep for an hour or two 'cause it "ain't" a gonna happen! W/three dogs sleeping in our bedroom THAT can be a challenge. Fortunately, our new bed has a high footboard so I can grasp that, place my feet slowly and carefully, then reach the tall dresser, the bathroom door, the sink cabinet and the wall next to the toilet. Going back to bed is in reverse order.

LOL, Slinky,

I really identify with that. For the past two months I have been much better about sleep hygiene. I no longer have a little night light in the bedroom or bathroom. And I am putting a washcloth over my RemStar blue lights. Thank goodness I seldom have to get up for nighttime bathroom visits (courtesy of my cpap therapy). But when I do, I have to figure out where to put my feet to avoid the two dogs sleeping beside the bed. Heaven forbid I graze my foot against the young Doberman, or he will hop up ever ready to play or be petted. Same challenge in reverse when I return to bed.

I've never been one to worry about those scary stories of snakes coming up from the depths of plumbing into the toilet, so am generally quite willing to take a seat in total darkness. However, during the four years I lived in Florida, twice I found a tree frog in a toilet. Very mysterious and unsettling. Could not figure it out at first. Finally discovered that the wire mesh covering had come off the plumbing vent pipe on the roof. Same deal with the second frog. Those tree frogs can climb up and down anything as their toes have little suction cups on them. Both times we were in a dry spell and the frogs were seeking water.

Janna

[Slinky]

An interesting experience, twice over! Tree frogs in the potty, huh?