costs to much.far to much!

paulinuk · Post by **paulinuk** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:46 am

why does all this stuff cost a fortune compared to lots of other things one can buy like you can buy an air compressor for£60 or a battery drill for£10 a washing machine£180 ,I could go on and on ,and there is a lot more material in some of these things,a mask £100 its a mask with a plastic tube,you can buy 10 garden hoses for that[a lot more pipe in those]its about time this stuff got to realistic prices

Lavendel · Post by **Lavendel** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:37 am

I agree...it does seem very excessive, especially for something so important. Maybe because the equipment is relatively new? Maybe once it is routine the prices will go down. I sure hope so. Many people can't "afford" to have sleep apnea with the prices the way they are & they certainly can't afford to go without the equipment. The prices at CPAP.com are by far the best & fairest I've ever seen for the equipment, though

rock and roll · Post by **rock and roll** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:04 am

It is way too expensive but I have a few thoughts on this. One I would imagine insurance would have a lot to do with this. Both in what the suppliers have to pay as it is medical supplies. And the fact that insurance is so willing to pay the rediculous fees for them as DME supplies. Anything that has to do with medical needs has gotten way out of wack price wise.

airhead · Post by **airhead** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:51 am

In the USA. If your rich the price dont matter(but you have great insurance probably}...if your poor, welfare, etc, its free...But if your in the middle.........................with so so insurance, or no insurance, but not on welfare, you get the shaft. Business as usual.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:18 am

Anytime you put the words "medical supplies" in front of the description of something, you adjust the price two or three times upward.

snamvar · Post by **snamvar** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:36 pm

I agree with you that the CPAP equipment is so expensive. I was shocked when my DME charged charged my insurance over $1200 and I had to co-pay about $300. I was also quite pissed when I had to pay another $450 to my DME to change my CPAP to one with C-flex !!!
But isn't it what capitalism is about? You get the latest research and equipment and you sure pay for it. I am originally from a third world country and can't imagine that there is a single sleep study center in those countries. I just hope that like everything else, the prices keep going down with competition and more people can afford it (like computers)!!!

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:20 pm

Hi snamvar,

Over-paying for equipment from a local DME is not what capitalism is about. Being a good consumer and shoping around for the best price with the best service is what makes capitalism work. You could have bought that same c-flex machine for less than the $750 you paid out-of-pocket, saved yourself some money and saved your insurance $900. The prices are going down if you look in the right places. the auto-pap I bought for $649 two months ago is now selling for $599. The local DMEs I called wanted $2000 for the same machine.

These DMEs must be taking a lot of insurance executives out for a lot of expensive lunches.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:42 pm

Hi,
I agree with you about me overpaying (a lot) to the DME which is basically a middle man with jacked up prices. I wish I knew about this forum and online suppliers. However, my sleep clinic gave me a list of local DME's to get my CPAP equipment from. I guess my point was more about the scientists that spend a lifetime of dedications in the labs figuring these things out and coming up with the solutions. They deserve the big bucks.
I am just trying to say that in many countries, there are no sleep clinics and the doctors don't even know apnea and the treatments for it. What is better? overpaying or not being detected, monitored and treated
Just looking at things from a different angle.

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:55 pm

Hi snamvar,

I do not fault you for over-paying the DME. One should not have to go to such efforts to get a fair price. I agree with you that the inventors of this equipment should make the most money. Based on what the local DMEs charge compared to the online prices I'm sure the local DME makes more money. Glad you found the forum and the online suppliers.

Always happy to hear another point of view - Thanks

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:41 am

I will say I knew nothing about the fact that you could buy your equipment somewhere else than a DME provider! I had NO idea you had choices. So if you have no idea, it's hard to shop around! Also, I could not pay the money upfront to the on-line stores (& then be reimbursed by insurance) & I understand they don't deal with insurance companies, so that makes it hard, too. You go with what you can afford to do.

RestInSeattle · Post by **RestInSeattle** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:16 pm

While I agree that there is much more markup than is needed, due to OSA sufferers being a captive audience, it's not really fair to compare to standard appliances and powertools.

The blower in the CPAPs are very fine tuned and controlled, they have to specifically always produce the correct pressure level proscribed every single time. I would never count on a powertool to save my life, even the fancy highend stuff that costs closer to CPAP equipment. Cheap cordless drills can be had for $40.00, but look at the top end and you'll see them at 300.00 or more.

The manufactures of the blower components still have a high cost on those types of materials. Look at the lucrative "ball-valve" market

So while some of the price is greed, the CPAP manufacturers are out to make money after all, not all of it is due to greed but parts costs that are high.

Please note that this is my own opinion, I don't work for any of these people. I just work with a lab environment at my work where they spend a lot on pressure valves, strain gauges and other measurement parts/components.

AirHog · Post by **AirHog** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:00 pm

Engineering, material quality, tolerences, consistency and minimal failure rates all contribute to a more expensive product. I don't want the person assembling my cpap to be making two dollars a week either, preferably well trained and compensated. If you want junk to improve your quality of life buy an old pickup truck and cruise the neighborhood on garbage day. j/k

As far as dme's gouging, I know my ins (blue cross, blue shield) will put a boot to their throat until they spit out a favorable price, they won't tolerate gouging.

On another note I've noticed something disturbing since starting cpap therapy three weeks ago. I've been talking to alot of people about it and many of them have the syptoms of osa but for whatever reasons refuse to jump through the sleep study hoops to get treatment, most, however offer that they would be willing to shell out the money for an autopap to treat themselves if the option where available. Because cpap therapy is over-simplified as little more than an air pump most people can't understand the stranglehold the medical community has on this condition.....................I have no answer for this, HELP , I got nothin.

chrisp · Post by **chrisp** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:25 pm

The point is that we are paying big bucks for the same equipment not some made in china junk. Why should I pay my 1000 deductible and have the insurance pony up another 1000-2000 for the same machine and mask at a DME that I can get on line for $750. And I get all the parts , manuals, hose, not get duped into paying for it again...Just read about all the jacking around people get at sleep studies and DMEs . Not all are bad but by the posts on this forum there are more than a few "Bad Apples" out there . My study was a fair experience in a hospital. Got it all in 1 nite by good people.. My wifes was a nightmare at a different clinic..

You have 3 weeks of experience on cpap.. i've got 3 years..And have met the good and the bad in this business...My insurance billed for things that I didn't get..Parts that weren't even compatible with my equipment. They didn't care. Wasn't worth a few bucks here and there..

If it weren't for the online providers many would have to go without ..They couldn't afford it. Myself included

Cheers,

Chris

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:11 pm

Airhog, I've run into the same thing when I mention OSA (and what I'm doing about it) to a few friends and relatives who have obvious signs of it. The idea of a sleep study in a clinic doesn't appeal to them at all. Of course they may also be in denial and don't want to ultimately be "hooked up to a machine" should a sleep study actually find they needed cpap. I think the idea of a cpap machine conjures up pictures of sick people on oxygen in ICU, or makes them think they'd look like an invalid. Ironically, the very things (and worse) that could happen to them if they let it keep going undiagnosed and untreated.

For those who would be willing to find out, but don't want to go through a full PSG in a hospital setting, perhaps the growing popularity of home sleep studies will get more people into treatment.

Like stopping smoking, bottom line will be the individual's willingness to take action on his/her own behalf - or not. You're doing as much as you can to make them aware of the consequences of OSA. Someday, perhaps more family doctors will take it upon themselves to begin prescribing autopaps without a sleep study for patients who are likely to have no more than mild OSA - as an initial screening for a week or two, if nothing else. Better that than no test at all, ever.

Miko · Post by **Miko** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:46 pm

Actually, these machines are quiet reasonable considering what they do, but buying one from a DME is not cheap. These guys are make their money from the insurance companies. Of course, they will argue that you get aftersales support and loaners when your machine is down, but is this all worth the extra 50+% price difference compared to places like CPAP.com?

I dont see anything wrong in getting a trial from the DME and finding out if this machine is what you like and tolerate. Then tell them you'll think about and buy it elsewhere cheaper. In only rare occasions will they offer you the same machine near the same price as cpap.com. It's capitalism at it's best.

costs to much.far to much!

costs to much.far to much!

business as usual....