RLS and OSA

Vader · Post by **Vader** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:57 pm

Sammy_J wrote:
Vader wrote: I'm sure that this is TOTALLY a coincidence, but-- my RLS has actually gotten worse since being on xpap therapy.
I don't take anything for the RLS though, I just deal with it, for now anyway.
I am not so sure. I believe there is a neurological component with RLS and PLM. If you have an auto CPAP then your body may be reacting to the pressure changes in the form of RLS or PLM.

As far as meds go for treating RLS and PLM, that's what doctors do and they experiment on you until they find a dosage or drug that improves your initial symptoms but with all drugs, the side effects may be a problem sooner or later.

The strange thing that I forgot to mention, is that my sleep study indicated a "potential" for PLMD. I was told this may warrant further study, but I have not pursued that. My wife claims she has never been aware of that condition when I'm sleeping. I'm certainly not aware of it either.
The RLS bothers me mostly while sitting, and occasionally while walking or standing.
I do have an auto machine, but I've been running it in cpap mode, because that seems to give me the most effective therapy.
However, I do agree that there has to be a neurological factor here, regardless.

kteague · Post by **kteague** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:13 am

Vader - That's interesting that they said "potential". Maybe they saw a few movements that made them think if given opportunity PLMD could present. They could have said this with the awareness that RLS and PLMD often travel together. Also knowing that treating sleep apnea so that there are no more repeated awakenings provides the climate for PLMD to fully express itself.

That's why if there is any possibility of PLMD, and daytime sleepiness persists even with successful cpap treatment, another sleep study may be warranted. The range of PLMD movements can consist of repetitive mild toe cramplike movements or kicking or a bicycling type motion. Some would be very obvious to the observer, others barely discernable.

As far as it being neurological, the role of iron in the brain's processing of movement makes it believable that low iron in the brain could be a major player in causing abnormal leg movements. Couldn't find the article I was looking for, but the link below contains some interesting observations.

http://tinyurl.com/yp9hfb

Kathy

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP, Travel

sharon1965 · Post by **sharon1965** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:10 am

Error: Unable to find site's URL to redirect to.

kathy
this is the message i got from that link on tinyurl...do you still have the full link?
thanks
sharon

kteague · Post by **kteague** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:24 am

Thanks, Sharon. The [url] after it was throwing it off so I took it off. It works now. I googled "RLS Iron Brain" and found lots of info. The best thing I read was that in autopsies, although there were some deficits in relation to the iron in specific area of the brain, there was no brain damage as seen in Parkinson's and Alzheimer's.

Kathy

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:46 am

Wow that was a great article Kathy thanks.

My first sleep study was done 4 1/2 years ago and they discovered severe PLMS and secondary RLS.

I have tried every med out there. Ended up using Neurontin 800 mg twice at night (max would be 2400mg but doc won't go that high because it filters through the kidneys and I have be very careful about my kidneys due to previous number of diseases I have had). This does give me some relief. My current sleep study showed the OSA and the PLMS was as I had suspected was down about 50% taking the Neurontin.

My doc ran blood work this time and found that I do have low iron, so I am on iron supplements now. I sure hope the iron will take care of the rest of the PLMS for me, and then with the OSA now getting under control, perhaps in a couple months I can get a good nights sleep. How great would that be!

Its nice to more of the detail about how and why the iron effects us. Again thank you for the info.

Pam

Pam · Post by **Pam** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:30 am

oops somehow the pc didn't keep me signed in. Sorry for the "guest"
pam

sharon1965 · Post by **sharon1965** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:55 am

kathy
thanks so much for posting that link
it's good news, in a way; even though i'd so much rather not have yet another issue to battle with, at least knowing that there's some chance that my low ferritin is the culprit gives me some hope of getting off the meds and getting proper rest...now if i could find out why i have low ferritin, that would be great! but doubtful...

my tests did show that my hemoglobin was 'normal', so it was good to read that this value can mask the problem, since i was a little more than ticked off when i found out that my ferrritin was '6'...i couldn't understand how that hadn't shown up on one of the many workups i'd had over the years, and now i realize that my gp wouldn't have thought to do the more sensitive ferritin test, since the other results appeared normal (of course, why would a doctor pay attention to symptoms? if it doesn't show up in the obvious numbers, it must be all in your head)

what i don't understand is how supplementing to bring up the levels works in the long term...the article clearly states that once the levels are corrected, the iron therapy should stop...what's to keep the levels from dropping again?
it's all a mystery to me

thanks again for the info!
sharon

sleepycarol · Post by **sleepycarol** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:06 pm

Out of 2 hours and 45 minutes of sleep I had 259 leg movements. That is why the doctor thinks that I might have RLS. How does this compare to what others experience? Is this excessive?

kteague · Post by **kteague** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:45 pm

Carol,

Couple things about those numbers...

Of course there'll be an exception for every rule, but generally RLS movements happen when awake and prevent sleep. Movements while asleep with a rythmic pattern are usually PLMs, although people can be awakened by RLS. For PLMD, that number is not surprising. For RLS, it seems like a lot to me. But I'm just basing that on my own experience, not any medical guidelines.

At one point my PLMs were repeating every 3 to 4 seconds. And in one study the report reflected an astronomical number of PLMs while awake, (which made my new sleep doc shake her head). But that was when my medication had everything in shambles.

As far as your movements, what's most important is how many of them were associated with arousal. Were you given that information?

Hope you get relief soon.

Kathy

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:07 pm

Hah! your name SleepyCarol reminds me of this gal I used to date some 20 years ago, she was blonde, great looking, excellent body, intelligent, a school teacher (I know a oxymoron), but I really liked her except for one thing, on every date she would be zonked out asleep. Didn't matter where we were at, it gave me a complex it did, so I dumped her frustrated as hell.

It wasn't until years later that I realized from my own disorder that she was probably narcoleptic or something, oh well you live and learn I guess.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:02 am

kteague

Thank you so much for your input on this!!

I wasn't given the numbers about any arousals -- just the number of leg movements and period of time. Next time I go to the doctor I am going to bring up the PLM and see what she thinks. I am not convinced that it is RLS as I don't have the other symptoms and go to sleep initially okay.

RLS and OSA

Re: RLS and OSA

PLMD

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Leg movements

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