James Skinner

jskinner · Post by **jskinner** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:40 am

JimW wrote:Briefly, along the lines of probiotics - when a fungus or yeast multiplies following the use of antibiotics, it's because the bacteria which naturally reside in our bodies and benefit them have been killed off.

Yeah I found that out the hard way... after all my bacteria had been killed off.
Which I had been told to start probiotics by my GP when he put me on the antibiotics rather than after I had the terrible oral thush...

JimW wrote:Wondering if the use of probiotics would help to combat whatever is dwelling in your sinuses, James.

Well taking them orally doesn't seem to help as I have been taking probiotics since Feb.

JimW wrote:I'm thinking taken orally, but am also wondering whether there is any merit (or any hazard) to moving some probiotics directly into your nose/sinuses, perhaps even by your nifty new power washer.

Thats a good question. I had a natural path suggest this some months back but I never tried it. (I thought she was a bit of a quack so I think I dismissed most of her suggestions) Maybe I should give this a try.

socknitster · Post by **socknitster** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:47 am

[quote="Bogof"]Try cutting out dairy from your diet entirely. I've seen people clogged up go mucous free in 2 weeks. If you insist on milk, swap the cow for a goat. Much easier on the system. Milk has the same components in it that glue has. It literally glues your sinusses shut.

Next idea is to step up from a nasal spray to proper sinus irrigation. Try something like the Hydropulse. i used it when I had problems and it really works wonders. See here for info:

http://www.pharmacy-solutions.com/hp.htm

Unlike nasal sprays, its pulsatile system helps the body to move the goo away. It's to do with the nasal cillia. It encourages the body AND helps it. A nasal spray JUST flushes. This flushes AND trains the body to attack the goo itself. Besides the CPAP, it was the best money I ever invested in health.

jskinner · Post by **jskinner** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:54 am

Bogof wrote:Next idea is to step up from a nasal spray to proper sinus irrigation. Try something like the Hydropulse. i used it when I had problems and it really works wonders. See here for info:

http://www.pharmacy-solutions.com/hp.htm

Unlike nasal sprays, its pulsatile system helps the body to move the goo away. It's to do with the nasal cillia. It encourages the body AND helps it. A nasal spray JUST flushes. This flushes AND trains the body to attack the goo itself. Besides the CPAP, it was the best money I ever invested in health.

While I have only been using mine for a few days I have to agree that it is a very good system. Why I didn't buy one months ago is beyond me (But then again I have been randomly trying so many things its hard to know what might actually help)

The interesting things about my goo is that its not runny at all. You would never even know its there for the most part if I didn't force it out. I don't have a runny nose or anything. It only really shows up if "blast" it out with water and in the mornings. its very thick. I still don't understand why an ENT can't see it (heck I have had 5 of them looking in there now) It does seem to run down the back of my throat though and cause me to be often trying to clear my throat.

The Hydropluse does seem to be helping clear things out a bit in that respect. I don't want to gross anyone out so I will just provide a link rather than an inline image but below is what the goo looks like in the morning after rinsing. This is about half as bad as it was before Hydrpulse ( I should have taken a picture before but didn't think of it)

http://james.istop.com/apnea/reports/Nose.jpg (Warning this is kinda gross)

socknitster · Post by **socknitster** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:59 am

The natural place that I went to (http://www.nutrichem.com/) had me on Oregano, Grapefruit seed Extract nasal spray, and the Anti-Fungal Kits.

I think a natural approach might be good for maintenance but if this really is a bad fungal problem then pharmaceuticals might be needed initially to get it under control.

That link to a study I posted yesterday showed that grapefruit seed extract was almost as potent as pharmaceuticles. I would highly consider using both. From the reading I did yesterday oregano and other naturals aren't nearly as effective.

I'm sitting here with a hot oil treatment on my hair consisting of some easily absorbed oils and a big dollup of tea trea oil. Even though it isn't as effective--it can't hurt--and maybe will boost the effect of the nizoral when I go to shampoo later. Then I'm following up with a rinse with black tea, also a known antifungal (tannins are drying--I wouldn't recommend this for you).

As soon as I can get ahold of some grapefruit seed extract I'm going to use it as a rinse after shampoo/conditioner and leave it on my scalp/hair. The naturals may not cure, but I see them as helpers and if they are fairly benign and don't interact negatively with the scrip, I have no problem with using them. Later they can be maintenance as you say.

I would alternate GSE and your scrip, if I were you. It could boost its effectiveness by hitting the fungus with a second punch. The effective dose is 100-120 ug/ml. My husband and I reasoned out over supper last night that that is equivalent to 100 mg/L. If you have a scale, make up this batch strength for yourself. Perhaps what you were using wasn't strong enough. I would combine it with uniodized salt at the rate of 1/8 to 1/4 tsp per cup of water to make it saline so that it doesn't irritate your already inflamed tissues. Saline is much easier than plain water on any sensitive tissues and is even recommended now over alcohol or other traditional meds for cuts and abrasions to clean the wound. Saline by itself can bring down inflammation some by use of osmotic pressure.

Jen

socknitster · Post by **socknitster** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:05 am

jskinner wrote:
Bogof wrote:Next idea is to step up from a nasal spray to proper sinus irrigation. Try something like the Hydropulse. i used it when I had problems and it really works wonders. See here for info:

http://www.pharmacy-solutions.com/hp.htm

Unlike nasal sprays, its pulsatile system helps the body to move the goo away. It's to do with the nasal cillia. It encourages the body AND helps it. A nasal spray JUST flushes. This flushes AND trains the body to attack the goo itself. Besides the CPAP, it was the best money I ever invested in health.
While I have only been using mine for a few days I have to agree that it is a very good system. Why I didn't buy one months ago is beyond me (But then again I have been randomly trying so many things its hard to know what might actually help)

The interesting things about my goo is that its not runny at all. You would never even know its there for the most part if I didn't force it out. I don't have a runny nose or anything. It only really shows up if "blast" it out with water and in the mornings. its very thick. I still don't understand why an ENT can't see it (heck I have had 5 of them looking in there now) It does seem to run down the back of my throat though and cause me to be often trying to clear my throat.

The Hydropluse does seem to be helping clear things out a bit in that respect. I don't want to gross anyone out so I will just provide a link rather than an inline image but below is what the goo looks like in the morning after rinsing. This is about half as bad as it was before Hydrpulse ( I should have taken a picture before but didn't think of it)

http://james.istop.com/apnea/reports/Nose.jpg

Bogof · Post by **Bogof** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:09 am

Ah right, didn't realize you had one already. Glad to here that seems to be doing its job. But then again, it only treats the result, not the cause. Something seems to be upsetting your system to create the goo in the first place. Giving dairy a miss for a fortnight would be a fairly straight forward test in my mind.

If you are really fed up wand want to go drastic, consider a fast with detox. The symptoms you describe seem to suggest something in your body isn't working optimally. With a fast, it has time to sort itself out. Chuck the crap out of every cell. The detox part will ensure your elimination channels are cleaned out. This doesn't have to be expensive. A week not eating saves money obviously, the detox kit doesn't cause much.

I'd recommend you read into it. Dr Bernard Jensen wrote a series of great books. I think the one about bowel care explains it all best.

jskinner · Post by **jskinner** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:19 am

socknitster wrote:You must be going crazy from trying all these different things. At least the yeast and the saline power wash is helping! I really feal for you and know to a small degree how you feel.

Its way beyond going crazy, I was gong crazy with it back in Nov I have told my family a thousand time I just won't understand why I can't walk into the hospital and be admitted. The problem is that no one seems to be able understand that my nose blockups with the combo of goo and swelling that it seems to produce. I always thought breathing was a basic function, not being able to breath seems like an emergency to me. (I have gone to the hospital 5 or 6 times at night only to be turned away and treated like this was a minor annoyance) Since the problem happens largely after I lye down its been hard to demonstrate and if Drs don't see something they don't seem to belive. (I guess in a ways its the same problem with sleep apnea, you kinda look find during the day)

Jefe · Post by **Jefe** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:59 pm

James, I feel for you. After reading a lot of the stuff on here, I would combine 2 of your therapies. I'd add the Grapefruit Seed Extract to the nasal pulse wash. Blow it through your sinuses. Hopefully it'll help.

I spent 2 weeks in the hospital a few years ago with a problem no one could identify. I had a painful mass on ..shall we say... one of the lads. I was xrayed & ultrasounded repeatedly. Nobody knew what it was. They even tried needle aspirations on it, which was extremely painful. Nothing.

After over a week of pain, they decided to do an exploratory surgery. When I got a bath prior to surgery, it ruptured, causing black pus to come out. I then had to have emergency surgery to clean it, and was left with a 15CM by 7CM gash in my groin that had to heal from the inside out.

To this day, they aren't sure why I grew an abscess there. I live in constant fear of another one. I sympathize with you, and sent you all the moral support I can.

socknitster · Post by **socknitster** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:57 pm

James, I would consider it an emergency too. I can't believe they won't admit you.

I was just telling my husband about this and he thinks you should have another sleep study done in a hospital. Then they will see how low your O2 sats are going and take it more seriously. I think this is a brilliant idea. No doctor can dismiss this when they see documented data about it. The tech would be seeing your struggle to breath and even if it was split night and they hooked you up to cpap, they would quickly see that it didn't work at all.

He really is the voice of wisdom sometimes (I'll have to remind myself of that the next time I think to myself that he has no common sense!LOL!)

Jen

jskinner · Post by **jskinner** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:49 am

socknitster wrote:I was just telling my husband about this and he thinks you should have another sleep study done in a hospital.

I had full PSG sleep study on July 16. This study was supposed to see how well my mantibular advancement device was working. Unfortunately for a number of reasons I never made it past stage 2 sleep. I think there was a number of reasons for this. It was supposed to be a split night study, the first have without anything and the second with the MAD in place.

However there where a number of factors that I think affected my ability to get to sleep.
- the usual ones, it was a new place, wires, etc
- For months feel like I am chocking on goo and have a hard time getting to sleep
- I had been attending a music festival for the previous 14 days and was not normally getting to bed until 2pm so trying to got to sleep at 11pm was just about impossible
- I stopped taking a Prolopa a few days before since I didn't want it to affect my sleep but I think it gave me some rebound insomina (The prolopa was prescribed by a nero because the though the right side problem might be some form of parkinsons. I always though this was crazy since it seems like a case of hypoxia to me)

By the time I got to the dental device part of the night I had been woken up so many times and was frustrated that I couldn't fall asleep. However the tech said I did breath smoother with the device in. I was pretty disappointed with the night as it was my chance for them to really see the problem.

socknitster wrote:Then they will see how low your O2 sats are going and take it more seriously.[\quote]

I chedk my O2 levels reguarlly. They are good now that I am on the MAD. Before getting the device (June 20) by O2 levels regularly dropped into the 80's & 70's. Thanks goodness for the mantibular advancement device, it has really really helped.

I have charts showing total time in apnea with 20, 30, and even 40 minutes during the Jan-March timeframe. None of that seemed to impress on any dr that there was any urgent problem. In fact most of them seemed to look at the charts with a blank look.

socknitster wrote:No doctor can dismiss this when they see documented data about it. The tech would be seeing your struggle to breath and even if it was split night and they hooked you up to cpap, they would quickly see that it didn't work at all.

The tech came in a couple of times during my slip night study on July 16 and said 'you seem like you keep trying to clear your throat' I said yea thats part of the problem...

socknitster · Post by **socknitster** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:45 pm

OH MY GOODNESS! I cannot believe this. Do the docs not know how to read the data from the pulse ox maybe? I always treat the docs like they have never seen a printout from encore pro and walk them thru it page by page (and sometimes they make comments--their interpretations are sometimes random and off the wall--it is hard for me to correct them because of the respecting your elders thing that was drummed into my head as a kid, but if it is important I do!)

I cannot believe they aren't taking any of this seriously. Wow am I glad I don't live in Canada! You have seen some American doctors too though haven't you?

What miserable, snively doctors you must have had the bad luck to see! I have met a few in my day. Once I lost my sense of smell for about 6 months and I went to an ent (not my current one) and he actually looked at me and made a face and said, "I don't understand why you are here." Like having constant sinus infections and losing your sense of smell isn't a reason to see a doc! I was mortified and started crying even before he left the room. I think I cried for hours and hours that day. I felt so defeated.

It turned out the milk allergy was to blame for all of those terrible times and undiagnosed apnea wasn't helping me heal, that is for sure.

Jen

jskinner · Post by **jskinner** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:20 pm

I visited my ENT today and came away with the following prescriptions:

1. Sporanox - oral antifungal (4 weeks @ 200mg/day)
2. Pulmicort Nebuamp - cocorticosterioid to add to my nasal rinse
3. Directions to take up singing or didgeridoo to try an strengthen my neck muscles

I was surprised that he did prescribe an antifungal. I think he only agreed to it since I pushed. (I took a friend with me who was more persitant than I or I may not have got it). He said 'Hey its your liver' if you want to try it. He agreed that it was safer to try than surgery. Anybody know how Sparanox compares to Diflucan?

I'm a bit worried about taking the steriod since it seems counter to trying to fighting fungus. When I when to get the prescription filled the pharmacist pointed out that I needed to be careful that the Pulmicort didn't cause fungus in my throat and to gargle with water after every use. I'm tempted to hold off on it for now.

I do have to say I like this ENT. I wish things could move quicker. He does seem very though and seems to want to work on the issues, this is unlike any ENT I have seen in the past. I have some faith in him but it looks like it will take time.

He canceled the nasal surgery for now based on the results of the CT scan and the fact that I have had some slight improvements the past few weeks.

The at home sleep tests he had me take a few weeks ago looked very good. With the mantiular advancement device my AHI was 6 (this is down from 55) Now if I could just stop choking (and sleep un elevated) on goo all night I actually might get some decent sleep...

frapilu · Post by **frapilu** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:04 pm

That 3rd recommendation sounds different. I've read of other people on this forum taking up the didgeridoo and I know Liam believes his professional singing is what helps him. Where in the earth would you get a didgeridoo and learn how to use it?

Best of luck to you. Are you still in NS or back in Ottawa?
France

socknitster · Post by **socknitster** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:24 pm

GReat!

I'm glad to hear you now have a thorough doc who cares. Be patient. Let him do his job. He doesn't want to rush because he doesn't want to hurt you. All good docs will do the least invasive things first.

Also, the nizoral seems to be curing my super-dandruff--hooray for anti-fungals! Of course I'm doing home remedies in conjuncion and will soon do a trial to see if home remedies (specifically grapefruit seed extract) will be able to fight the good fight by itself.

I can't wait to hear how you do over the next few weeks!

Jen

JZ · Post by JZ » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:37 pm

Here is a link to the British Medical Journal article about digeridoo playing and sleep apnea.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/bmj;332/7536/266

And here is one company that sells them:

http://laoutback.com/didgeridoo/educati ... Apnea.html

I am not affiliated with this LA Outback company in any way and cannot vouch for how they are to do business with. I am sure there are a number of other places to obtain a digeridoo from.

Janna