In June I switched from the REMstar Pro-2 C-FLEX to the M-series Auto A-FLEX. The prescribed C-FLEX unit just wasn't what I needed -- regardless of what the doctors decided on.
Finally, I'm beginning to achieve better compliance and more hours per night with therapy. I still haven't broken the 50% compliance mark, but I am switching masks, adding a chin strap and aroma therapy. Better combinations for me will be discovered, and I should be able to achieve at least 80% compliance in the not too distant future.
Despite the problems in my therapy I have noted a marked decrease in the number or mornings I wake with a severe and lasting headache, and the length of time each day that I suffer such headaches. The overall severity of each headache is far less intense also. These are very pleasant effects of therapy that I was not aware existed until I joined this group.
I keep checking my bank accounts to see if increasing success in therapy compliance will also help those to prosper. Thus far, XPAP'ing hasn't done a thing for my green numbers.
_________________
CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): C-FLEX, auto
Headaches and xPAP Therapy
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Nodzy
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Headaches and xPAP Therapy
Last edited by Nodzy on Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I used to get migraines all the time before CPAP, I used to get them so bad they impacted my vision, I couldn't see the computer screen at work, I would have auras see stars you name it. They usually meant I had to pop some pills and head home from work as I couldn't do my job with them. The quack neuro I was seeing at the time thought the TIA's I was having was from the migraines, after 2 strokes I realized she was a quack and had no idea what she was talking about.
In any case, while researching them on my own (before CPAP) I ran across one site which gave a pretty good theory/explanation of them, basically it claimed it was how the brain regulates blood flow to the brain, by increasing or decreasing the diameter of the blood vessels, if that dilation is not adequate it then sends the signal to the heart to increase or decrease the heart rate.
Below you can see a normal blood vessel on the left and a dilated one on the right, you can also see the branch of the trigeminal nerve (gold color) attached to those blood vessels in the brain, those nerve endings like most nerves are stiff and don't like to stretch and/or change shape, they like being rigid.
When the blood vessel changes size/shape of which those endings are attached, it irritates those nerves, the result is the migraine pains you feel.
Before CPAP therapy to treat your OSA, your blood vessels would dilate due to the Hypoxia condition it was constantly under during sleep. This allows more blood to flow to the brain supplying it with much needed oxygenated blood.
Once you wake up, that hypoxia condition subsides, now the brain is getting too much oxygenated blood so the brain lowers heart rate and constricts the diameter of blood flow by reducing the diameter of the blood vessel. This "changing" of size/shape of the blood vessel causes the nerve pain that you feels as a migraine.
Many times drinking a cup of coffee can eliminate the migraine, it works because the caffeine in coffee causes blood vessels to constrict.
When you regularly use CPAP you reduce the need for the brain to dilate blood vessels to control blood flow to the brain, this is why migraines usually subside after addressing OSA. If you stop with CPAP your migraines will usually return within a few days.
In any case, while researching them on my own (before CPAP) I ran across one site which gave a pretty good theory/explanation of them, basically it claimed it was how the brain regulates blood flow to the brain, by increasing or decreasing the diameter of the blood vessels, if that dilation is not adequate it then sends the signal to the heart to increase or decrease the heart rate.
Below you can see a normal blood vessel on the left and a dilated one on the right, you can also see the branch of the trigeminal nerve (gold color) attached to those blood vessels in the brain, those nerve endings like most nerves are stiff and don't like to stretch and/or change shape, they like being rigid.
When the blood vessel changes size/shape of which those endings are attached, it irritates those nerves, the result is the migraine pains you feel.
Before CPAP therapy to treat your OSA, your blood vessels would dilate due to the Hypoxia condition it was constantly under during sleep. This allows more blood to flow to the brain supplying it with much needed oxygenated blood.
Once you wake up, that hypoxia condition subsides, now the brain is getting too much oxygenated blood so the brain lowers heart rate and constricts the diameter of blood flow by reducing the diameter of the blood vessel. This "changing" of size/shape of the blood vessel causes the nerve pain that you feels as a migraine.
Many times drinking a cup of coffee can eliminate the migraine, it works because the caffeine in coffee causes blood vessels to constrict.
When you regularly use CPAP you reduce the need for the brain to dilate blood vessels to control blood flow to the brain, this is why migraines usually subside after addressing OSA. If you stop with CPAP your migraines will usually return within a few days.
someday science will catch up to what I'm saying...
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Nodzy
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Snoredog,
Thank you. That was a great presentation. It truly detailed far beyond my adulterated layman's determination for the noggin' aches.
Yes, the caffeine is supposed to aid in easing such headaches, but with me that rarely occurred. For reasons unknown, the caffeine usually made me feel them as worsening. On most days with one, I would suffer it until early to late evening. Sometimes the morning headache would be with me as painful as it started as when I pillowed-out at some time after 11:00 p.m.
Like you, many of mine affected my vision, hearing, balance, my ability to function... and certainly my moods.
But, I am extremely pleased to find that persistent XPAP'ing is relegating such headaches to be unpleasant memories of my pre-XPAP days. Thanks again for the excellent and colorful explanation.
Thank you. That was a great presentation. It truly detailed far beyond my adulterated layman's determination for the noggin' aches.
Yes, the caffeine is supposed to aid in easing such headaches, but with me that rarely occurred. For reasons unknown, the caffeine usually made me feel them as worsening. On most days with one, I would suffer it until early to late evening. Sometimes the morning headache would be with me as painful as it started as when I pillowed-out at some time after 11:00 p.m.
Like you, many of mine affected my vision, hearing, balance, my ability to function... and certainly my moods.
But, I am extremely pleased to find that persistent XPAP'ing is relegating such headaches to be unpleasant memories of my pre-XPAP days. Thanks again for the excellent and colorful explanation.
I also have had "migraines" for approx 10 years, they started when I was pregnant with my oldest daughter. In probably the last 10-15 years, I have had numerous problems I've blamed on getting older although I'm only 37. This includes memory loss (can't seem to remember anything if I don't write it down), weight gain (about 100 lbs in the last 10-15 years), tired all the time (don't ever feel like playing with my kids and I could take a nap any chance I got to close my eyes), I've been diagnosed with insulin resistance and went on an antidepressant in the last year. Needless to say, through knowledge I've gained from this forum and the web searching I've done in the last 2 months since I was diagnosed I know that chances are high that OSA is what has been causing most, if not all of my problems.
I got my cpap on 7/24/07 and have been 100% compliant from night 1. I am slowly feeling better and the girls I work with claim they see a huge difference in both my personality and energy level. I won't say it's been extremely fun, but I have luckily adapted quickly and if I wake up during the night I actually feel for the exhaust to be sure it's still blowing.
Sorry to go on so long. I just wish everybody else's experience could be as good as mine has so far.
Thanks for all the great advice.
I got my cpap on 7/24/07 and have been 100% compliant from night 1. I am slowly feeling better and the girls I work with claim they see a huge difference in both my personality and energy level. I won't say it's been extremely fun, but I have luckily adapted quickly and if I wake up during the night I actually feel for the exhaust to be sure it's still blowing.
Sorry to go on so long. I just wish everybody else's experience could be as good as mine has so far.
Thanks for all the great advice.
_________________
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Nodzy
- Posts: 541
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Gerald,
To answer: No. The simple oximeter I currently have is the Nonin 9500 self-contained fingertip probe. It's for spot checks only, but can be worn until the battery depletes, or the unit slips off the finger. It doesn't record.
On a recent night I wore the Nonin 9500 and looked at it every time my eyes popped open during the night, which is frequent during most nights. I had many readings in the mid to low 80's and some as low as 76-SPO2. I don't know how many readings were below 88 or the durations. But even with more compliant XPAP therapy and lessening of the headache frequency and intensity, I know that my SPO2 saturations are far too low at times during sleep.
I'm also fighting to get persistent mouth breathing and mouth venting under control so that my therapy becomes more effective. That, in small or large part, may contribute to higher and more stable O2 saturation during sleep. Later this week I'll be starting to experiment with Poligrip strips, a Ruby chin strap in combo with Comfort Curve and OptiLife masks, and the Hybrid mask, once it arrives.
That's why I'm lusting for a Nonin Wristox 3100 with Profox software, although its memory and useful battery life fall far short of admirable. It also comes with a 3-year warranty, and allows for reasonable replacement of a damaged sensor or sensor cable without having to send the unit for repair, or buy a whole new unit.
I like the less expensive SPO Medical Pulseox 7500, but its sensor is permanently attached to the unit, and it only has a 1-year warranty. Though its memory and useful battery life far exceed that of the Nonin Wristox 3100. It also can be used with Profox oximetry software. The probme being... any damage to the sensor or sensor cable requires a total unit replacement, or sending the entire unit in for repair.
I'm choosing a wrist-worn unit because it makes for a great tool to wear at almost anytime for getting SPO2 readings.
A handheld unit has a sensor with at minimum a 3-foot sensor cable which could make it a hassle to wear during daily activities, or even on a toss-&-turn night. I can foresee possible damage to the unit, or to the cable from tossing and turning. Having to strap a 3-foot cable up under my armpit and down my arm seems to be absurd when I can get the wrist-worn style with a short cable on the finger probe and wear it without having to rig other straps and ties to hold a longer cable tight to me.
I plan to start bike-riding, walking, hiking, bowling and resuming other activities and would like to know my SPO2 levels when sleeping and awake -- since I appear to have notable lung damage (COPD) from workplace toxicity exposures. The wrist-worn style of oximeter just seems to be the better option for me. Oddly too, my lung capacity and function is improving, which doctors find baffling. So, I avoid the doctors as much as possible, because I don't like to confuse people. <G>
To answer: No. The simple oximeter I currently have is the Nonin 9500 self-contained fingertip probe. It's for spot checks only, but can be worn until the battery depletes, or the unit slips off the finger. It doesn't record.
On a recent night I wore the Nonin 9500 and looked at it every time my eyes popped open during the night, which is frequent during most nights. I had many readings in the mid to low 80's and some as low as 76-SPO2. I don't know how many readings were below 88 or the durations. But even with more compliant XPAP therapy and lessening of the headache frequency and intensity, I know that my SPO2 saturations are far too low at times during sleep.
I'm also fighting to get persistent mouth breathing and mouth venting under control so that my therapy becomes more effective. That, in small or large part, may contribute to higher and more stable O2 saturation during sleep. Later this week I'll be starting to experiment with Poligrip strips, a Ruby chin strap in combo with Comfort Curve and OptiLife masks, and the Hybrid mask, once it arrives.
That's why I'm lusting for a Nonin Wristox 3100 with Profox software, although its memory and useful battery life fall far short of admirable. It also comes with a 3-year warranty, and allows for reasonable replacement of a damaged sensor or sensor cable without having to send the unit for repair, or buy a whole new unit.
I like the less expensive SPO Medical Pulseox 7500, but its sensor is permanently attached to the unit, and it only has a 1-year warranty. Though its memory and useful battery life far exceed that of the Nonin Wristox 3100. It also can be used with Profox oximetry software. The probme being... any damage to the sensor or sensor cable requires a total unit replacement, or sending the entire unit in for repair.
I'm choosing a wrist-worn unit because it makes for a great tool to wear at almost anytime for getting SPO2 readings.
A handheld unit has a sensor with at minimum a 3-foot sensor cable which could make it a hassle to wear during daily activities, or even on a toss-&-turn night. I can foresee possible damage to the unit, or to the cable from tossing and turning. Having to strap a 3-foot cable up under my armpit and down my arm seems to be absurd when I can get the wrist-worn style with a short cable on the finger probe and wear it without having to rig other straps and ties to hold a longer cable tight to me.
I plan to start bike-riding, walking, hiking, bowling and resuming other activities and would like to know my SPO2 levels when sleeping and awake -- since I appear to have notable lung damage (COPD) from workplace toxicity exposures. The wrist-worn style of oximeter just seems to be the better option for me. Oddly too, my lung capacity and function is improving, which doctors find baffling. So, I avoid the doctors as much as possible, because I don't like to confuse people. <G>
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Nodzy
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TNurse,
Great going - being that compliant from day-one is a feat few experience.
Yes, you are absolutely right. OSA, CSA and MA and a plethora of other sleep disturbance problems create or exacerbate numerous other health problems. And those sleep problems often lead to premature death, and a crappy life long before the checkout day.
No need to apologize for apeaking out and telling your story. We're all here for help, support, understanding... and to offer what we can to others.
Welcome to the board....
Great going - being that compliant from day-one is a feat few experience.
Yes, you are absolutely right. OSA, CSA and MA and a plethora of other sleep disturbance problems create or exacerbate numerous other health problems. And those sleep problems often lead to premature death, and a crappy life long before the checkout day.
No need to apologize for apeaking out and telling your story. We're all here for help, support, understanding... and to offer what we can to others.
Welcome to the board....
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jskinner
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- Location: Greenwich, Nova Scotia, Canada
- Contact:
I ended up getting a Writox 3100 for about $300 off eBay. I am using the Profox software as well. I'm pretty happy with the Nonin.Nodzy wrote:That's why I'm lusting for a Nonin Wristox 3100 with Profox software, although its memory and useful battery life fall far short of admirable.
Encore Pro Analyzer Author
Facebook Apnea Group
Facebook Apnea Group
Nodzy......
Thanks so much for your wonderfully written response.......You do such a good job expressing your ideas..... that we all learn.
I ran across something (an article of some sort) that mentioned the idea that shallow breathing might be partly caused by diaphragm muscles that aren't being used correctly.
When we go to sleep, most of our muscles are "paralyzed"....with the exception of essential muscles such as the heart and the diaphragm.
If one gets in the habit of using the upper chest muscles for breathing....and those muscles are "paralyzed" during sleeping....what's left are diaphragm muscles that have gotten out of the habit of working correctly.
I think this may be what has happened to me.
Add restrictions in the throat......plus a little over-active sinus drainage.....and I think my "M" series records the situation as "flow limitations".
Even though I'm doing way better than when I started CPAP nearly a year ago......I think I'm still not getting enough O2 during the night.
This is why I'm moving in the direction of purchasing a SPO 7500 with ProFox software......so that I can compare Profox software "events" with those shown on EncorePro readouts.....and come to a better understanding of what's happening to me during sleep.
Finally, I had a thought about the risk of damage to the finger probe wiring on the SPO 7500. What if one wore a lightweight cotton glove over the sensor and wire to protect it during sleep? I'm pretty sure I won't be using the oximeter more than a couple of times a week.....so, something like that might lessen the possibility of damage to the system during sleep.
Any thoughts you have on this is super appreciated....by me....and by others. What do you think?
Gerald
Thanks so much for your wonderfully written response.......You do such a good job expressing your ideas..... that we all learn.
I ran across something (an article of some sort) that mentioned the idea that shallow breathing might be partly caused by diaphragm muscles that aren't being used correctly.
When we go to sleep, most of our muscles are "paralyzed"....with the exception of essential muscles such as the heart and the diaphragm.
If one gets in the habit of using the upper chest muscles for breathing....and those muscles are "paralyzed" during sleeping....what's left are diaphragm muscles that have gotten out of the habit of working correctly.
I think this may be what has happened to me.
Add restrictions in the throat......plus a little over-active sinus drainage.....and I think my "M" series records the situation as "flow limitations".
Even though I'm doing way better than when I started CPAP nearly a year ago......I think I'm still not getting enough O2 during the night.
This is why I'm moving in the direction of purchasing a SPO 7500 with ProFox software......so that I can compare Profox software "events" with those shown on EncorePro readouts.....and come to a better understanding of what's happening to me during sleep.
Finally, I had a thought about the risk of damage to the finger probe wiring on the SPO 7500. What if one wore a lightweight cotton glove over the sensor and wire to protect it during sleep? I'm pretty sure I won't be using the oximeter more than a couple of times a week.....so, something like that might lessen the possibility of damage to the system during sleep.
Any thoughts you have on this is super appreciated....by me....and by others. What do you think?
Gerald
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DeltaSeeker
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- Location: Illinois
- Contact:
Nodzy,
Glad to hear your headaches have lessened. Same happened for me too. I work almost daily with severe long-lasting headaches which nothing would take away. I'm glad to say that for the most part since starting CPAP they are few and less severe. YAY CPAP!!!
L
Glad to hear your headaches have lessened. Same happened for me too. I work almost daily with severe long-lasting headaches which nothing would take away. I'm glad to say that for the most part since starting CPAP they are few and less severe. YAY CPAP!!!
L
To dream ... the impossible dream...
APAP since 4/12/07 still looking for the "perfect" mask. 1st ZERO AHI nite 6/7/07! 2nd 6/11
Using loaner Hybrid next 2 weeks. Fingers x'd
See http://www.urastarbooks.net for stats
APAP since 4/12/07 still looking for the "perfect" mask. 1st ZERO AHI nite 6/7/07! 2nd 6/11
Using loaner Hybrid next 2 weeks. Fingers x'd
See http://www.urastarbooks.net for stats
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AdmiralCougar
- Posts: 272
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- Location: Portland, Oregon
I've had the headaches since I was little. Completely horrible end up in a ball crying all day long didn't have anything that would help much. discovered that I was allergic to codeine... I was the only 8 year old I knew taking prescribed narcotics. This was around the same time when I had my Tonsils and Adenoids removed. My mom tells me now that the Dr talked about on top it helping stop me getting Strep every couple of months that the Adenoids would stop my sleeping problems ie severe snoring and of course it didn't, and my mom didn't pursue the issue further. I'm pretty sure I may have had Sleep Apnea as a child because I had allot of the signs. I still have the headaches and look forward to some possible relief now that I got my machine today.
Admiral Cougar
any progress with your sleep/fatigue?jskinner wrote:I ended up getting a Writox 3100 for about $300 off eBay. I am using the Profox software as well. I'm pretty happy with the Nonin.Nodzy wrote:That's why I'm lusting for a Nonin Wristox 3100 with Profox software, although its memory and useful battery life fall far short of admirable.
someday science will catch up to what I'm saying...
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jskinner
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- Contact:
Only slightly as I seem to be breathing slightly better at night, but not much (I can now sometimes sleep on my side again and thus get a bit better sleep) I'll try to give a bit more of an update in a related thread if things continue like this for a statically significant amount of time timeSnoredog wrote:any progress with your sleep/fatigue?
Encore Pro Analyzer Author
Facebook Apnea Group
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Headaches
Since I began my therapy, I've been obsessive about at least going to bed with my mask on every night, even if I don't finish the night with it. This is my way of maintaining some level of compliance. As long as going to bed without the mask isn't an option, I start the game ahead. I consider this a victory.
Anyway...
A couple of nights ago, for the first time I didn't go to bed with the mask on. I just didn't want to. Big mistake that I'm still paying for. You know they say that you don't know what you have until you miss it? In this case, I didn't know what I had until I got it back. I got a nasty headache in the evening. Who knew that only a few hours of compliance at night makes such a big difference?
Doug.
Anyway...
A couple of nights ago, for the first time I didn't go to bed with the mask on. I just didn't want to. Big mistake that I'm still paying for. You know they say that you don't know what you have until you miss it? In this case, I didn't know what I had until I got it back. I got a nasty headache in the evening. Who knew that only a few hours of compliance at night makes such a big difference?
Doug.
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Nodzy
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AdmiralCougar,AdmiralCougar wrote:I've had the headaches since I was little. Completely horrible end up in a ball crying all day long didn't have anything that would help much. discovered that I was allergic to codeine... I was the only 8 year old I knew taking prescribed narcotics. This was around the same time when I had my Tonsils and Adenoids removed. My mom tells me now that the Dr talked about on top it helping stop me getting Strep every couple of months that the Adenoids would stop my sleeping problems ie severe snoring and of course it didn't, and my mom didn't pursue the issue further. I'm pretty sure I may have had Sleep Apnea as a child because I had allot of the signs. I still have the headaches and look forward to some possible relief now that I got my machine today.
Many hoseheads I have spoken with claim, as I do, that xPAP therapy greatly helped with the headaches. Welcome to the board, and I wish you great success in your therapy.