osa, decreased oxygen levels causing nightmares?

lovey · Post by **lovey** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:33 pm

I've been trying to find information to no success on whether low oxygen levels caused by OSA can trigger nightmares. I have both PTSD and severe OSA. On one of my sleep studies, my oxygen level went down to 50% for 10 minutes. I am trying to get more studies done to see if this is a more frequent problem, even with cpap. My AHI is 72.

My counselor and I have a theory though. We think that my oxygen level goes so low, it triggers me into "fight or flight" physiologically which produces the nightmares. Another theory is that the low oxygen levels make my body respond physiologically like there is a trauma going on, so it hits the same areas in my brain that are abnormal from the PTSD traumas, which triggers the nightmares.

Anybody have any similar symptoms/diagnoses? Any thoughts on whether this could be what's happening? Any advice or suggestions on tests or doctors? Thanks, Lovey

jskinner · Post by **jskinner** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:22 pm

lovey wrote:Anybody have any similar symptoms/diagnoses? Any thoughts on whether this could be what's happening? Any advice or suggestions on tests or doctors? Thanks, Lovey

OSA often wakes you up during REM which means you often remember dreams more often than then you normally would. Also your body has just been shot with adrenalin in order to make you start breathing again and leaves you in a sort of panicky state.

I think this is a pretty common experience for us OSA sufferers?

kteague · Post by **kteague** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:46 pm

Not sure if it was the low 02 or the struggle to breath, but having bad dreams has been discussed on here before. I have a friend who was hallucinating, seeing things on the wall like giant spiders, and her doc said it was the low oxygen.
Kathy

linda b · Post by **linda b** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:06 am

Before I started on oxygen therapy (about 6 months before starting sleep apnea therapy), I would have extremely vivid dreams, often nightmares. I would also talk quite a bit in my sleep. The talking would eventually wake me up enough that for a few moments I would be aware that I was talking. And, boy, was I smart!!! I could expound so eloquently on just about any subject imaginable!!. I kind of miss that -- but I don't miss the nightmares.

I agree that the low oxygen must have something to do with it and that some of the apnea episodes wake us enough that we are aware of dreaming.

tuna · Post by **tuna** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:10 am

I would wake up terrified in a cold sweat! Getting outside by any means including thru a closed window! Talking about scary!

Joe..

lovey · Post by **lovey** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:56 am

Thanks for the info on nightmares. Any comments on whether my body is responding like it is in trauma, i.e. being hypoxic/going through physiological trauma is triggering the same part of my brain as PTSD does? Thanks.

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:42 am

The O2 problem is one thing, but being under treatment and still having a AHI of 72, does your Dr. think he has you cured? If he can't get your AHI down, he probably can't fix anything else either. Jim

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:53 am

For one thing, Lovey, you have an inadeqaute machine for your doctor to assess anything about your CPAP therapy except that you are or are not being compliant w/its use.

As I understand it the only dreams you remember are those from which you are awakened for any reason. Most of us ONLY dream in REM sleep. A few of us also dream in Stage 1 but these dreams we usually control how they progress and the outcome. In addition, Stage 1 sleep is not really sleep at all but rather an transition stage from awake and alert to sleepy and dozing on and off. Stage 2 is the first stage of real sleep but it is a light sleep from which we are easily awakened.

So, if your obstructions are not being addressed w/adequate pressure you are experiencing more arousals than if your pressure was being adequately addressed and if those obstructions and arousals are occurring during REM sleep and a dream - you're going to remember that dream. If the obstruction is of some prolonged duration and/or the desaturation pretty low it would make sense that the dream could become a nightmare, especially of being suffocated or strangled and unable to breathe.

I'm not a medical professional, nor a dream specialist!!!! Just thinking thru what I remember from various things I've read.

socknitster · Post by **socknitster** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:56 am

I absolutely think that they are affecting each other. I used to wake up CONVINCED someone was breaking into my home, night after night, sometimes several times a night. Those would have been some pretty persistent intruders! I was externalizing a problem that was INTERNAL. Your brain floods you with crazy stress hormones when you are hypoxic. I have insanely scary nightmares sometimes and wake up gasping for air.

You really need to get your osa under control and I think you will sleep better. Keep looking for answers and maybe consider gettting a second opinion with a diff sleep doc who is willing to do another sleep study to try to titrate you better. Perhaps something as simple as a new interface will help.

Good luck and come back and tell us your progress. I would really like to hear how you do!

Jen

lovey · Post by **lovey** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:11 am

Thanks so much for your great info. I've had 4 studies:

1st. PSG, January 2006--that's where my ASI was so high.
2nd. After waiting what seemed to be forever, had titration in March 2006.
3rd. I am having trouble with prolonged sleeping (up to 18 hours at a time) in January 2007. I was sent to a local pulmonologist. He ordered a bipap/cpap split study and for them to analyze my REM. They asked me all types of questions about my cpap, but ended up giving me just a psg with no cpap. That's when my oxygen level went down to 50% on it's own. I had a lower asi of 25 on this study.
4th. I only slept 30 minutes, so they basically couldn't calculate anything. They tried to do the bipap/cpap study, but were unsuccessful.

I was refunded all fees for the 3rd and 4th study after making a complaint with the hospital.

Interesting about my CPAP machine being less than desired. I have been asking about good sleep doctors outside of my local area, and I think I have found one in Grand Rapids, MI. There is not a sleep doc in the South Bend, IN area.

Again, thanks for your help, Lovey

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:17 am

Good luck, Lovely. Did you ever try EMDR therapy for PTSD? I've heard they've had some very good luck w/it.

sharon1965 · Post by **sharon1965** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:32 am

socknitster said:

I absolutely think that they are affecting each other. I used to wake up CONVINCED someone was breaking into my home, night after night, sometimes several times a night. Those would have been some pretty persistent intruders! I was externalizing a problem that was INTERNAL. Your brain floods you with crazy stress hormones when you are hypoxic. I have insanely scary nightmares sometimes and wake up gasping for air.

OMG! when i read that it was as though i had written it myself...weird...

before my first consult w/ sleep doc, the sec. called to go through a questionnaire with me...the first question was whether or not i worked shift work and the second was if i had nightmares...i've had them frequently all my life and sleepwalking/acting out dreams has been a constant part of my nightlife also...the dreams described by socknitster are exactly what i experienced...i was told that it's due to an apnea which has sent you into panic mode and your brain is flooded with bad images as a result...i would wake up at least once or twice a night with my heart pounding so hard it actually hurt, gasping for air and shaking...i'm happy to say that since cpap this is no longer a nightly occurrence...

_________________

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kteague · Post by **kteague** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:34 pm

Seems to me that with your inability to sleep for a titration study, you of all people would be a candidate for a data capable cpap or an autopap. Noble of them to not charge you for unsuccessful studies, but not so noble to then leave you hanging high and dry. Too bad when you least feel up to it you have to be your own advocate. But the effort to optimize your treatment will pay off in the end. Best wishes.
Kathy

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:41 am

Is it Dr Quimby and/or his sleep lab in Grand Rapids you are thinking of going to, Lovey?

Be sure to let us know if you go and how things progress for you. It sounds like he enjoys working w/those who are a challenge to Dx and treat and if so you should be in really good hands!

Good luck and God bless!

osa, decreased oxygen levels causing nightmares?

osa, decreased oxygen levels causing nightmares?

Re: osa, decreased oxygen levels causing nightmares?

Low Oxygen and Nightmares

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Ineffective therapy