ULTRA MIRAGE - Whistles

[allend]

New mask time. I wanted to get the Resmed Ultra Miage FF mask but my RT who runs the sleep center that I go to said it whistles. She has lots of experience as they do 4-6 sleep studies a day. Have any of you noticed the Ultra Miage whistling? She recommends the F&P FF mask.

In addition, if I get the ULTRA Mirage, what size would I get if I use a Large Activa & a medium Comfort Gel? The shallow activa killed my nose. I' ve gotten pretty good size advice from here.

Allen

[Wulfman]

Allen,

Mine can't carry a tune worth a darn.....and it's off-key.

Not really a "whistle" as virtually all masks have "exhaust noise" (and I don't hear it when I'm asleep, anyway).

Read my post in this thread from yesterday concerning sizing, etc.:

viewtopic.php?p=156962&highlight=#156962

In my opinion, if a mask is "whistling", it isn't put together, sized or adjusted properly. I think your RT just wants to sell you the masks they carry. However, with that said, SOME people have had good luck with that brand of mask, too. It's a very individualistic thing. Some people hate the masks that others love.

I LOVE mine.

Good luck with your selection.

Den

[Snoredog]

my experience: Sleep labs are the WORST at recommending mask interfaces, same for RT's, they only recommend what is easiest for them to fit you with and/or the one that brings in the most profit. The only time you can expect to get the right answer from them is if the RT is a cpaper him/herself. "we fit most patients with this swift thingee" doesn't tell you anything about the mask. Your RT is NOT going to recommend a UMFF because it is expensive and if you have insurance they will make less money fitting you with it. They will fit you with a cheaper Comfort2 (ask, I bet they jump on that suggestion).

The UltraMirage Full Face:

I've owned (and still own) 3 different UMFF's, mine never whistled, they HAVE sounded more like a bull frog as you breathe in/out. I don't know exactly what the cause of that is, but I suspect it is from the anti-asphixia valve incorporated into the swivel elbow which is required on a FF mask.

Some FF mask have a flapper valve, this valve opens should the machine shut off, so you don't suffocate.

But the UMFF doesn't use a flapper valve, it only has slots around the perimeter of the swivel elbow for that purpose. I've had my oldest one (now 3yrs old) make the noise to the last purchase.

However, I start off at a low pressure of 6.5cm, that may have something to do with it, this mask needs a minimum pressure of 6.5cm to flush out exhaled CO2. I am on that borderline pressure. This could also explain why the noise goes away the longer I stay on therapy, as machine pressure goes up, noise seems to go away (my experience anyway). But I also think my Remstar Auto picked up this bull frog or whistle as a snore. Since I have been using the Soyala nasal, my snores have dropped dramatically.

But with the noise issue aside, the UMFF is still the best FF mask on the market (in my opinion). Headgear is of high quality, has the features you NEED in a FF mask, like quick release clips for removing headgear so you can clean the mask. I never remove the cushion when I clean my masks, I remove the headgear and wash the mask assembled.

UMFF also has a forehead pivot adjustment so you can tilt the mask and eliminate any leaks into your eyes OR eliminate too much pressure on the nose bridge.

Leaks into the eyes are not good because it dries out the eyes and can lead to vision loss. Get a welt across your nose and you will appreciate having that forehead pivot adjustment to relieve the pressure on the nose.

It should also be very comfortable, the UMFF is the most comfortable you'll find. You'll also find the cushion uses cpap air pressure to help make the seal. Full Face masks in general WILL leak MORE than nasal masks, there is simply more cushion-to-skin area to seal, you also have a lower mandible that may moves and can break that seal. With a nasal mask there is no movement, so the result is fewer leaks, that is if you don't mouth breathe.

I've purchased most of the Full Face masks with exception of the F&P 431/432 and the Mojo. I passed on the F&P 43x because it doesn't have my minimum requirement for a FF mask, that is the forehead pivot support.

And if you search here for it, you'll find most complaints have to do with too much pressure on the nose or leaks. That is because the F&P doesn't have a forehead support. Some can use it, but there are many more failures than successes. Search for it here, form your own opinion from reading the responses (same for the UMFF).

I have a new Respironics Comfort2 Full, I find it is more noisy (exhaust), doesn't seal as well as UMFF and is a throw-away mask compared to the UMFF. Insurance doesn't buy my masks, so I'd rather spend less money for a new cushion than a whole new mask.

My suggestions on what to look for:

1. Testimonials. Usually should be ignored in selecting anything, but in this case there are many long time users of the UMFF, they will either back up or dispute what I have said.

2. Quick Release Clips: Headgear should have quick release clips so you can remove the headgear for cleaning the mask. Without them, you loose your headgear strap tension, velcro does wear out and/or tear.

3. Cushion: Cushion should seal with cpap air pressure, this means it should have a thin membrane like inner cushion that the air pressure pushes against the skin (vs. a rolled edge like from a gel cushion such as mojo). This is why I have never tried the Mojo, my experience with these rolled edge cushions is they don't seal very well and require more strap pressure to seal.

4. Air delivery: This is how the air gets delivered to your nares/mouth. With the UMFF it is very smooth or diffused so you don't feel any direct high pressure entering. The UMFF is very gentle with air delivery.

5. Exhaust Noise: The UMFF is NOT the quietest FF mask, the Soyala FF is quieter but it has other issues mainly discomfort of the cushion. The noise level of the UMFF is tolerable.

6. Forehead Pivot: The mask must have the forehead support with a pivot. this to eliminate leaks and/or reduce pressure on the nose.

My selections for top 2 FF masks:

1. UMFF
2. Comfort2 Full (noisy)

A distant 3rd is the over hyped Hybrid. I found the Hybrid (noisy, lots of leaks, lousy headgear). Might work if you have a beard and pressure is 18cm and you are already used to putting a chain binder on the headgear.

Reasons for NOT trialing F&P 431/432 - No forehead pivot adjustment
Reasons for NOT trialing the Mojo - Rolled edge on cushion it will never seal, gel cushions like that have been around for years, same problem leaks.

Go to cpap.com, click on Full Face masks (other) and read the reviews on them there, just keep in mind those reviews come only a few weeks after the person orders so it doesn't really reflect the real world opinions (in my opinion). Sizing is critical on a Full Face mask, make sure you download a sizing template before ordering, they are non-returnable once opened.

The true test of any mask is if you are using it a year later or have made multiple purchases of the same mask. I prefer my Soyala nasal mask over the UMFF, but I still use my UMFF regularly when I get congested or cannot control mouth breathing. Some nights I just cannot wear that nasal mask and reach for the UMFF.

[track]

My UMFF is very quiet. Often I have to reach up to feel the exhaust to know if my machine is on or to see if I remembered to hook the tube up in the middle of the night when I got up.

[Hurricane]

Excellent reply Snoredog, great advice on overall strong points and weakness of masks, it appears its like the perfect mouse trap, many invented but still an inventers past time. I have been only a cpaper since last September, but already have four different masks, I have one favorite, but then every so often I will switch them, if anything its because I think I might have become a more seasoned user, and reading these posts seeing others having luck with their usage, I try and then after two nights, and a blister on my nose, I seem to remember why I stopped using a certain mask. I still haven't found the perfect mask for me, and sometimes feel I'm trying to match the freedom of pre cpap nites, and not feeling like Tom Cruise in Top Gun, lowering my canopy, preparing for takeoff, then my wife kills that saying no match at all.
Ed

[WearyOne]

Hi, allend. I have the UMFF, but haven't gotten it to the point yet that it doesn't leak somewhere. My main mask is the Hybrid and I wanted a regular FF in order to give my nose a rest occassionally!

The UMFF is quiet; no whistles for me. But, I tried the ComfortFull 2 and it did whistle. The whistling in the CF2 was from the anti-asphexia valve. If I took something and pushed the flap in a couple of times while the pressure was on, it would eventually stop whistling. Got tired of doing that (and didn't like the mask that much anyway) so took it back and exchanged for the UMFF.

Also tried the Mojo at the DME. The RT couldn't get that to seal at all so I never even took that one home.

Hope you find a great mask for YOU! (I'm rather new to this and I'm beginning to think there is no perfect mask for anyone! Hope I prove myself wrong one of these days!)

Pam

[danrosz]

Hi AllenD -

I have the UMFFM and I had a whistling problem for a few days. Took it to the clinic and they reput the mask together for me. The problem was that piece that comes in and out (right at the nose area of the mask) wasn't in correctly. Hope this helps.

[snoregirl]

My experience with the whistling is that when that happened t my UMFF mask, it was theh exaust port (little silicone insert, vibrating. Moving that around or taping it (being careful not to cover the holes) fixed that in a hurry. I tried the t ape solution in desperation when I was new at this and have since found out that moving the silicone thing around to eliminate the vibration works.

Others may have other whistling sounds, but I would bet that they are all caused by some part vibrating or leaking where it isn't intended to leak.

Just my non medical opinion.

[sleepngo]

I have the UMFF mask and indeed it does whistle, not only that it is hard to prevent it from leaking. It has awaken my wife and myself a couple times , also the forehead piece keep getting caught on the pillow when I turn from side to side and causes it to leak. I like the design concept, but it is to uncomfortable for me. I returned to using my comfort classic nasal mask and like it much better.

Dan

[sleepngo]

Almost forgot, I have the F/PFF 431 mask, when I complained to Apria about it leaking, they gave me the UMFF mask, but I have more problems with it than I do with the F/PFF mask, so if I need to use a FF mask I will probably use the F/PFF mask, more comfortable for me compared to the UMFF mask. Don't need a FF mask at this time, so will continue to use my CC nasal mask.

Dan

[allend]

my experience: Sleep labs are the WORST at recommending mask interfaces, same for RT's, they only recommend what is easiest for them to fit you with and/or the one that brings in the most profit. The only time you can expect to get the right answer from them is if the RT is a cpaper him/herself. "we fit most patients with this swift thingee" doesn't tell you anything about the mask. Your RT is NOT going to recommend a UMFF because it is expensive and if you have insurance they will make less money fitting you with it. They will fit you with a cheaper Comfort2 (ask, I bet they jump on that suggestion).

Hi Snoredog and thanks for the detailed reply. As I said below, the RT has nothing to gain by pointing me to one mask or another.

The UltraMirage Full Face:

I've owned (and still own) 3 different UMFF's, mine never whistled, they HAVE sounded more like a bull frog as you breathe in/out. I don't know exactly what the cause of that is, but I suspect it is from the anti-asphixia valve incorporated into the swivel elbow which is required on a FF mask.


However, I start off at a low pressure of 6.5cm, that may have something to do with it, this mask needs a minimum pressure of 6.5cm to flush out exhaled CO2. I am on that borderline pressure. This could also explain why the noise goes away the longer

Well, maybe that's it for a sleep lab that might start at low Ipap pressure. My Ipap is 11 but I set the auto to 15 because there are times during the night, closer to morning during REM that the Ipap goes that high, so that wouldn't be a problem for me.

But with the noise issue aside, the UMFF is still the best FF mask on the market (in my opinion). Headgear is of high quality, has the features you NEED in a FF mask, like quick release clips for removing headgear so you can clean the mask. I never remove the cushion when I clean my masks, I remove the headgear and wash the mask assembled.

UMFF also has a forehead pivot adjustment so you can tilt the mask and eliminate any leaks into your eyes OR eliminate too much pressure on the nose bridge.

It should also be very comfortable, the UMFF is the most comfortable you'll find. You'll also find the cushion uses cpap air pressure to help make the seal. Full Face masks in general WILL leak MORE than nasal masks, there is simply more cushion-to-skin area to seal, you also have a lower mandible that may moves and can break that seal. With a nasal mask there is no movement, so the result is fewer leaks, that is if you don't mouth breathe.

Interesting, I break apart the Activa or the Comfort Gel every night. I wonder if long term that's a bad idea because things stretch eventually.

I have a new Respironics Comfort2 Full, I find it is more noisy (exhaust), doesn't seal as well as UMFF and is a throw-away mask compared to the UMFF. Insurance doesn't buy my masks, so I'd rather spend less money for a new cushion than a whole new mask.

Yep, the Repsironics was the second suggested.

My suggestions on what to look for:

1. Testimonials. Usually should be ignored in selecting anything, but in this case there are many long time users of the UMFF, they will either back up or dispute what I have said.

2. Quick Release Clips: Headgear should have quick release clips so you can remove the headgear for cleaning the mask. Without them, you loose your headgear strap tension, velcro does wear out and/or tear.

3. Cushion: Cushion should seal with cpap air pressure, this means it should have a thin membrane like inner cushion that the air pressure pushes against the skin (vs. a rolled edge like from a gel cushion such as mojo). This is why I have never tried the Mojo, my experience with these rolled edge cushions is they don't seal very well and require more strap pressure to seal.

I guess the quick release clips are a good idea but if I found the perfect mask, I'd tie knots myself!

4. Air delivery: This is how the air gets delivered to your nares/mouth. With the UMFF it is very smooth or diffused so you don't feel any direct high pressure entering. The UMFF is very gentle with air delivery.

5. Exhaust Noise: The UMFF is NOT the quietest FF mask, the Soyala FF is quieter but it has other issues mainly discomfort of the cushion. The noise level of the UMFF is tolerable.

6. Forehead Pivot: The mask must have the forehead support with a pivot. this to eliminate leaks and/or reduce pressure on the nose.

My selections for top 2 FF masks:

1. UMFF
2. Comfort2 Full (noisy)

A distant 3rd is the over hyped Hybrid. I found the Hybrid (noisy, lots of leaks, lousy headgear). Might work if you have a beard and pressure is 18cm and you are already used to putting a chain binder on the headgear.

I think the Resmed machines are much quieter thant the Respironics. I like the Activa more than the Comfort Gel because of the air tight fit. The Comfort Gel seems to leak a little too easily, although I never conformed the cushion, as Respironics suggests.

Sizing is critical on a Full Face mask, make sure you download a sizing template before ordering, they are non-returnable once opened.

Where to you get that template? According to Resmed site, the template is 3D.

The true test of any mask is if you are using it a year later or have made multiple purchases of the same mask. I prefer my Soyala nasal mask over the UMFF, but I still use my UMFF regularly when I get congested or cannot control mouth breathing. Some nights I just cannot wear that nasal mask and reach for the UMFF.

Right, I don't intend to use a FF mask all the time, but when you cannot breath through your nose, what other choice do you have.

[allend]

Hi, allend. I have the UMFF, but haven't gotten it to the point yet that it doesn't leak somewhere. My main mask is the Hybrid and I wanted a regular FF in order to give my nose a rest occassionally!

The UMFF is quiet; no whistles for me. But, I tried the ComfortFull 2 and it did whistle. The whistling in the CF2 was from the anti-asphexia valve. If I took something and pushed the flap in a couple of times while the pressure was on, it would eventually stop whistling. Got tired of doing that (and didn't like the mask that much anyway) so took it back and exchanged for the UMFF.

Also tried the Mojo at the DME. The RT couldn't get that to seal at all so I never even took that one home.

Hope you find a great mask for YOU! (I'm rather new to this and I'm beginning to think there is no perfect mask for anyone! Hope I prove myself wrong one of these days!)

Pam

Thanks Pam,

I guess our facial bone structures are all so different that what is good for one might not be for the other. A few times I didn't put my Activa together correctly, at the point of the lower tab (@ 6:00) and the air leaked out of it and I couldn't feel where it was coming from, which is surprising because it was pretty loud. So, I just did what computer people do, pulled it apart and started all over again.

What is a Mojo. I have a feeling I might like the Hybrid because I kind of like the Opti-Life nasal pillow mask but I think I mouth breath with it.

[allend]

I have the UMFF mask and indeed it does whistle, not only that it is hard to prevent it from leaking. It has awaken my wife and myself a couple times , also the forehead piece keep getting caught on the pillow when I turn from side to side and causes it to leak. I like the design concept, but it is to uncomfortable for me. I returned to using my comfort classic nasal mask and like it much better.Dan

Hi Dan,

I had the Activa and the first size I was given was a shallow. It was awful and destroyed the bridge of my nose…I mean really bruised and cut it. Someone on here said that they had the same problem and switched to a Large and it was great. I did that too and it’s pretty good for me too, although it’s not preventing mouth breathing, which the correct pressure would do. I have a feeling that these new masks have too much exhaust power, especially considering how loose some of these masks need to be.

Almost forgot, I have the F/PFF 431 mask, when I complained to Apria about it leaking, they gave me the UMFF mask, but I have more problems with it than I do with the F/PFF mask, so if I need to use a FF mask I will probably use the F/PFF mask, more comfortable for me compared to the UMFF mask. Don't need a FF mask at this time, so will continue to use my CC nasal mask.

I started years ago with the Comfort Classic. It’s like a dinosaur but I wonder if that mask fit tightly is better than some of the new masks that attach loosely

[allend]

My UMFF is very quiet. Often I have to reach up to feel the exhaust to know if my machine is on or to see if I remembered to hook the tube up in the middle of the night when I got up.

Track, what size mask do you use? I wonder if these shallows are any good and what does shallow mean anyway?

[snoozeandlose]

Just wanted to check in on the discussion. My UM FF sounds like uncontrolled flatulence. I never have gotten it to stop leaking. I also have a F+P 431 and 432. They both leak a lot. I have gotten the best results adjusting the botton strap first and then the others like the instruction sheet shows. It seems by leaving the top straps looser the fit is better. However most of the time I tape and use a Ultra mirage nasal mask. It was what I was given after my first study and luckily it fit well from the start. Most people will tell you the FPs are tough to adjust. Good luck.