About Full Face Masks

vdol52 · Post by **vdol52** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:52 am

This is something I learned about Full Face Masks. The particular FF mask I had was an Ultra Mirage FF Mask. The lower strap attached to the bottom of the mask and came around the back of the head.
My experience was that in order to avoid leaks I had to tighten the mask to the point that it pulled my lower jaw back significantly.
For some people, I was one, pulling back the lower jaw can close or narrow the airway. Some people wear a dental device, in order to pull forward the lower jaw.

I do not think this is true for everyone, nor is true for every FF mask.
Everyone has a different mouth, jaw configuration.
But for me the FF mask didn't work for that reason.

Something to consider when choosing a mask.

jasper · Post by **jasper** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:59 am

I found the same thing to be absolutely true when using the Comfort Full 2. Gave up on it in short order because of the pain to my teeth, gums and jaw. Since then I got the F&P 432 which goes under the chin. It does not do the same thing to my jaw, but I can only tolerate it for about 3 nights in a row before the bridge of my nose is very sore. Then, back to the Activa with tape until the nose heals. Sounds like a pretty common complaint.

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vdol52 · Post by **vdol52** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:05 pm

Wow, Jasper, Cool Dog picture.
I have a schnoodle. He sleeps good though.

mecocosm · Post by **mecocosm** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:57 pm

vdol52 wrote:This is something I learned about Full Face Masks. The particular FF mask I had was an Ultra Mirage FF Mask. The lower strap attached to the bottom of the mask and came around the back of the head.
My experience was that in order to avoid leaks I had to tighten the mask to the point that it pulled my lower jaw back significantly.
For some people, I was one, pulling back the lower jaw can close or narrow the airway. Some people wear a dental device, in order to pull forward the lower jaw.

I do not think this is true for everyone, nor is true for every FF mask.
Everyone has a different mouth, jaw configuration.
But for me the FF mask didn't work for that reason.

Something to consider when choosing a mask.

It is interesting you say that. My RT told me that the chin flap of the Hybrid helps support the chin and minimizes this problem. I wonder if anyone has compared the Hybrid vs the other FF masks on this particular aspect.

Lepeu63 · Post by **Lepeu63** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:03 pm

I've an F&P also and find it works better if you don't tighten the upper straps that tight. The skirt needs to inflate a bit to seal properly. Yes I get some leakage around the nose after, say 4-5 hours - usually when my skin gets oily under the gasket - but a tug down on the mask or at worst case a wipe of the face usually takes care of it.

My worst leakage issue with this mask is when I lay on my back and my chin drops on its own I get leakage around the cheeks.

Lepeu63 · Post by **Lepeu63** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:04 pm

vdol52 wrote:Wow, Jasper, Cool Dog picture.
I have a schnoodle. He sleeps good though.

We're looking at a Shih-chon right now. We're SUPPOSED to wait until the fall but I don't know if I can hold out that long

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:16 pm

I have experienced the same issue w/ UMFF and 432.

My hypothesis - The lower strap on UMFF fits around the back of the neck. As the skull pivots at the top of the spine (back of neck), the tension responds to any motion of the head while asleep … consequently lower strap tension is variable and the seal is lost and mask leaks. The natural solution is to tighten the lower strap in an attempt to stop leaks … this leads to displacing the jaw back towards the throat enhancing potential for apnea and sore jaw.

One solution is to be able to maintain the lower strap on the back of the skull near the base and off the neck (or top of spine). The 431/432 has a strap over the top of the head and it can be tightened to help maintain the lower strap off the neck … resulting in less tension for the lower strap and less chance of leaks or displaced jaw (although for me, the strap somehow manages to slip back down over the neck during sleep). I also begin to get leakage near eyes due to build up of skin oils during the night.

Another solution is to find a way to keep your head from moving relative to your neck (a neck brace perhaps?) so that tension of lower strap is kept constant and leaks are minimized … not the solution I would use first if at all (may cause stiff neck?).

I hope to modify/replace my headgear to keep the lower strap off the neck and on the skull as an ultimate solution.

Lepeu63 · Post by **Lepeu63** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:21 pm

I'll give that a try!

vdol52 · Post by **vdol52** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:41 pm

I googled the Shih-chon and it is adorable. I can see why you want one.
Walking dogs is a good way of getting exercise. They let you know when it is time to be walked and demand that you do. No getting out of it.
Helps me sleep better.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:30 am

Another solution is to find a way to keep your head from moving relative to your neck (a neck brace perhaps?) so that tension of lower strap is kept constant and leaks are minimized …

I'm not sure, but isn't this what the F&P HC431/432's "Glider Strap" is designed to address? You can turn your head to either side, but the seal-producing pressure on the bottom of the mask remains constant. The front of the strap is a slippery two-strap plastic piece that slides back and forth freely through the bottom of the mask. It seems to work really well.

DreamStalker · Post by **DreamStalker** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:04 am

Anonymous wrote:
Another solution is to find a way to keep your head from moving relative to your neck (a neck brace perhaps?) so that tension of lower strap is kept constant and leaks are minimized …
I'm not sure, but isn't this what the F&P HC431/432's "Glider Strap" is designed to address? You can turn your head to either side, but the seal-producing pressure on the bottom of the mask remains constant. The front of the strap is a slippery two-strap plastic piece that slides back and forth freely through the bottom of the mask. It seems to work really well.

Yep ... I like the glider design too and it does seem to work for "side to side" motion ... now try nodding your head "up and down" and you will notice that lower strap tension increases when you nod up and decreases when you nod down. Glider does not do anything for that type of motion.

ChainSaw · Post by **ChainSaw** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:50 pm

I am only into my Fisher 431 for 5 days (after 3 months in the ResMed Ultra Mirage) but I am sold. With the old mask it seemed that I slept only until I woke, then the noise of escaping air would not let me go back to sleep.
The 431 has a better seal and tho I am a bed thrasher I wake up and lay there with almost no noise. I even went back to sleep this morning for one and a half hours.

OldHippie · Post by **OldHippie** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:11 pm

I have discovered with about 5 weeks using the Ultra Mirage FF Mask that when I lay down at night the straps fit great but when I wake during the night they are almost unbearably tight.

Am I a shape shifter like in the SciFi movies or is this normal? It is most frustrating.

I found a "comfortable" tightness and just leave it there even if I leak a bit. If I am leaking, a bit of tugging on the mask and it usually takes care of itself. Of course, sometimes the headrest is almost covering my eyebrows.....

God bless,
Louise

About Full Face Masks

About Full Face Masks

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Shih-chon