Six months and still struggling

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
futoncouchsofa
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Re: Six months and still struggling

Post by futoncouchsofa » Mon Jan 19, 2026 10:31 am

Pugsy wrote:
Mon Jan 19, 2026 10:28 am
Bear in mind that nasal congestion can and will show up as increased flow limitations and no amount of pressure changes or increases will treat or take care of nasal congestion. Have to treat the nasal congestion in the traditional way....decongestants, nasal rinses, saline spray, etc.
Right, but wouldn't switching to a full-face mask like the X30i take care of that problem?

Btw, I have already tried all the traditional solutions to nasal congestion and found no help. According to sleep specialists I've seen, I have a severely narrow airway even after my turbinate/septum surgery.

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Pugsy
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Re: Six months and still struggling

Post by Pugsy » Mon Jan 19, 2026 10:56 am

futoncouchsofa wrote:
Mon Jan 19, 2026 10:31 am
wouldn't switching to a full-face mask like the X30i take care of that problem?
No, not necessarily.
Not if it is nasal congestion flow limitations you are seeing. A full face mask won't fix nasal congestion. A full face mask will keep you from losing precious cpap pressures out your mouth from mouth opening though.

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futoncouchsofa
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Re: Six months and still struggling

Post by futoncouchsofa » Mon Jan 19, 2026 11:55 am

Pugsy wrote:
Mon Jan 19, 2026 10:56 am
futoncouchsofa wrote:
Mon Jan 19, 2026 10:31 am
wouldn't switching to a full-face mask like the X30i take care of that problem?
No, not necessarily.
Not if it is nasal congestion flow limitations you are seeing. A full face mask won't fix nasal congestion. A full face mask will keep you from losing precious cpap pressures out your mouth from mouth opening though.
Huh! That’s surprising because the respiratory therapist I spoke to said that full face masks are for mouth breathers. And I’ve seen people on forums say that they used FFM successfully for mouth breathing. Are you saying that they only meant it with respect to incidental mouth breathing, not when they are ONLY mouth breathing?

Is it not possible for me to just focus on only breathing through my mouth with the FFM? Or am I going to inevitably use my nose once I fall asleep?

Either way, any suggestions for opening up the nose? I’ve tried afrin experiment in the past which didn’t seem to help much. But also maybe I could try it again with higher pressure. I’ve also used nasal steroid which also didn’t seem to do much. But again, I might be able to try them again with higher pressures.

I use saline rinse nightly.

I’ve been told to get maxillary expansion surgery to open up my nasal airway. But I’m looking for an intermediate solution.

Also do you think continuing to raise my pressures makes sense? Maybe if I can get them high enough it might help?

futoncouchsofa
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Re: Six months and still struggling

Post by futoncouchsofa » Mon Jan 19, 2026 11:57 am

Also for context: at start of the night my nose feels relatively open but by morning it feels very blocked (dry). Also I get blocked on one side while lying down. And when I say blocked on one side I mean completely blocked. Not just obstructed.

My guess is that I experience a lot of similar nasal issues to others using PAP but that my particular problem is that these nasal issues happen in a very narrow nasal airway, which make them hard to resolve with conventional treatments.

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Re: Six months and still struggling

Post by futoncouchsofa » Mon Jan 19, 2026 12:07 pm

Do you think the purely oral oracle mask might work for me?

I guess I’m just a little confused why a FFM won’t work for me. If I only breathe though my mouth then what is the problem? Couldn’t that bypass my nose?

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Pugsy
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Re: Six months and still struggling

Post by Pugsy » Mon Jan 19, 2026 1:04 pm

Full face masks are indeed advised for serious mouth breathers because it completes the pressurized circuit.
Some people just simply prefer a full face mask as well.
Some people won't use a full face mask for any number of reasons (even if they sometimes do a little mouth breathing and I am one of those people.)

Nasal congestion can cause a person to mouth breath and in that situation it prevents loss of therapy pressure but it still won't necessarily fix or stop nasal congestion.
The nasal congestion is a different problem so it must utilize a different solution.
futoncouchsofa wrote:
Mon Jan 19, 2026 12:07 pm
Do you think the purely oral oracle mask might work for me?
It's a horrid little mask IMHO but some people do find they like it.
When I can't breathe through my nose for any reason...I simply can't sleep. Fortunately that something that rarely happens to me.
Even when I have had upper respiratory symptoms with a cold or flu I have always been able to open the nose up enough to use my nasal pillow cpap mask without a ton of mouth breathing.
futoncouchsofa wrote:
Mon Jan 19, 2026 11:55 am
Also do you think continuing to raise my pressures makes sense? Maybe if I can get them high enough it might help?
Did you miss what I wrote earlier about pressure changes (more or less) not being able to fix a nasal congestion or flow limitation problem? No where have I suggested using more pressure.
futoncouchsofa wrote:
Mon Jan 19, 2026 11:55 am
Either way, any suggestions for opening up the nose?
I don't have any ideas. Sorry. How to fix it depends on what is causing it and even when we know the cause of something it doesn't mean we always have an easy/guaranteed fix.

I have never used a full face mask.....don't even own one. 15 years of cpap use and I have never used a FFM.

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futoncouchsofa
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Re: Six months and still struggling

Post by futoncouchsofa » Mon Jan 19, 2026 1:14 pm

I guess I just am still confused because if I am only breathing through my mouth then how could I be getting flow limitations from nasal obstruction?

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jimbud
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Re: Six months and still struggling

Post by jimbud » Mon Jan 19, 2026 5:35 pm

futoncouchsofa wrote:
Mon Jan 19, 2026 1:14 pm
I guess I just am still confused because if I am only breathing through my mouth then how could I be getting flow limitations from nasal obstruction?
It is confusing, but the short answer is that the same underlying blockage that forces you to breathe through your mouth also causes a drop in pressure in your throat, leading to flow limitations.
Even if air is not actively passing through your nose, the obstruction creates a "vacuum effect" in your throat that makes it harder for you to get air into your lungs, regardless of which way it enters.
Here is how "nasal" obstruction affects you when you are only mouth breathing:
The Vacuum Effect (Negative Pressure): The nose acts as a crucial regulator of airflow. When it is blocked (due to a deviated septum, enlarged turbinates, or allergies), a significant amount of "negative pressure" (vacuum force) builds up in the back of your throat. This suction pulls the throat tissue inward, narrowing the airway and causing flow limitations.
Mouth Opening Increases Collapse: The act of opening your mouth often causes the tongue and soft palate to shift backward toward the throat, further narrowing the airway.
The "Straw" Analogy: Think of your airway as a tube. If one end (the nose) is blocked, the pressure inside the tube drops, making the whole system more likely to collapse.
The Chain Reaction: Nasal obstruction is almost always the root cause of chronic mouth breathing. The body tries to breathe through the nose first, but when the obstruction is too great, it switches to the mouth, bringing with it the high-resistance, low-pressure, and unstable mechanics of that blocked system.
In short: Even if you are mouth breathing, your body is still trying to fight against the pressure changes caused by the closed-off nose, resulting in flow limitation, loud snoring, or, in some cases, sleep apnea.

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Re: Six months and still struggling

Post by futoncouchsofa » Mon Jan 19, 2026 5:55 pm

Thank you very much for that explanation. It’s extremely helpful.

In that case what would your thoughts be on me sleeping sitting up? My nasal blockage always seems to worsen when I lay down. When I’m upright I can breathe pretty easily through my nose (post surgery)

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Re: Six months and still struggling

Post by jimbud » Mon Jan 19, 2026 6:14 pm

I have the same problem (not as severe as yours), and sitting up makes a difference. My problem is getting and staying asleep in that position. So I just tough it out and make myself as comfortable as possible to get the best sleep I can. Over six years now and I work at that constantly. Changing masks, pillows and position whenever/whatever I can think of to try. Right now I am using the Resmed F30i AirTOUCH mask, and buckwheat pillows front and back (to keep me OFF my back as much as possible).
It's a journey for me. :D

JPB

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Re: Six months and still struggling

Post by futoncouchsofa » Mon Jan 19, 2026 6:18 pm

Good to hear I have some company in my misery! I am seriously contemplating maxillary expansion for my nasal issues but that’s down the line.

Do you sleep in any kind of incline?

I’m thinking if I can get in a good incline, on my back, with cervical collar to keep it all in place, I might be able to get a decent night. Trying to decide if I should stick with the X30i or go back to P30i with mouth tape.

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Re: Six months and still struggling

Post by jimbud » Mon Jan 19, 2026 7:10 pm

I do not use any incline, but I have noticed that there are those on here that do with some success. I have to use a cervical collar or I end up with the bottom of the mask in my mouth. It (for me) was very easy to get used to. For several years I used the Resmed P10 with a head sweat band and a home made elastic band over the sweat band to prevent mouth breathing, with cervical collar. It worked. Until, Resmed recently came out with the F30i AIRTOUCH (not to be confused with the Airfit) mask. The best mask I have used to this date, by far.(for me). Still have to use a cervical collar. (the mask in mouth problem) YMMV :D

Good luck in your journey

JPB

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Nocibur
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Re: Six months and still struggling

Post by Nocibur » Tue Jan 20, 2026 5:11 am

Seems to that
jimbud wrote:
Mon Jan 19, 2026 5:35 pm
The Vacuum Effect (Negative Pressure): The nose acts as a crucial regulator of airflow. When it is blocked (due to a deviated septum, enlarged turbinates, or allergies), a significant amount of "negative pressure" (vacuum force) builds up in the back of your throat. This suction pulls the throat tissue inward, narrowing the airway and causing flow limitations.
and
The "Straw" Analogy: Think of your airway as a tube. If one end (the nose) is blocked, the pressure inside the tube drops, making the whole system more likely to collapse.
are the same thing.

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Re: Six months and still struggling

Post by ejbpesca » Tue Jan 20, 2026 10:52 am

futoncouchsofa wrote:
Mon Jan 19, 2026 6:18 pm
Good to hear I have some company in my misery! I am seriously contemplating maxillary expansion for my nasal issues but that’s down the line.

Do you sleep in any kind of incline?

I’m thinking if I can get in a good incline, on my back, with cervical collar to keep it all in place, I might be able to get a decent night. Trying to decide if I should stick with the X30i or go back to P30i with mouth tape.
I'm aboard the congestion boat also. I have chronic allergies, a deviated septum, and narrowed nasal passages that can swell shut at any time. I use an FF mask. I used a nasal mask once for an hour or so during a sleep study 18 years ago. I use the FF due to mouth breathing, not mouth leaking.

What helps me:
1. A nasal rinse and flush is good for a few hours.
2. Azelastine spray and flush are good for a few hours.
3. Flonase spray helps during peak airborne allergen times.
4. Afrin-like sprays are a last resort when no air will pass through the nose, and 1 - 3 are ineffective.
5. Sleeping on an incline. Sleeping with the head of the bed elevated helps keep nasal passages open and acid reflux down (literally down)
6. Hypoallergenic CPAP filters
7. low humidity I don't use the machine's humidifier unless I get nose bleeds, which happen somewhere below 40%RF
8. CPAP pressure. I clear the nose and sinuses by rinse/sprays/and an action that was depicted by the young artist teaching the young lady how to spit, then don my headgear. My base therapy pressure is 13. This compresses the nasal tissues, keeping the nose open and clear until I remove the mask. It does not work during times of severe nasal congestion and swelling.
9. Change sleeping position. Lying on my right side causes that side of the nose to swell shut at times. An article claims this is blood pooling in the sinuses. It does not happen on the left side or on my back.
10. During times of severe congestion, I take 1-2 doses of Benedryl, which helps keep air flowing for up to 12 hours.

What did not work for me:
1. A cervical collar changed nothing except to create irritation
2. Chin strap. I must mouth breathe at times during sleep, so my mouth opens regardless of a chinstrap
3. Taping. Even with very adhesive, strong tape, my jaw will manage to pull from the tape so I can mouth breathe when needed
4. Keeping off my back training. None of the 3 gadgets I used keeps me from rolling to my back. On my back is when the mouthbreathing starts, and the reason I have severe apnea.
5. Over-the-nose strips and nostril inserts hold the nose open but interfere with the mask and are too irritating.

PAP keeps my nose clear except for the right side when right side sleeping. As soon as the mask comes off, here comes the congestion. Some suggest the pressure holds back tissues from swelling ( that doesn't work while on my right side for the right side of the nose.) I wonder if it is due to breathing through a hypoallergenic filter that keeps the usual airborne particulates I breathe from my airway. But the nose must be clear first. PAP does not clear my nose; it keeps it clear as long as I'm on my left side or back.

I started nasal rinsing recently, and that is helping, but I have to do it so much and for so long that I doubt if I will keep it up. I have considered a machine that claims to do it by pumping water up one nostril and out the other, but again, the hassle factor is high.

Do you get congestion just from the therapy, or is it relieved when sleeping without therapy?
Some need a very high humidity to prevent congestion. (humidity makes mine worse)
Sleeping on an incline may help.

I've spent 74 years with nasal clogging allergies that can make me very ill (sinus infection, bronchitis, pneumonia) if I don't keep them at bay.

I hope you get some relief soon.

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Re: Six months and still struggling

Post by jimbud » Tue Jan 20, 2026 7:06 pm

Nocibur wrote:
Tue Jan 20, 2026 5:11 am
Seems to that
jimbud wrote:
Mon Jan 19, 2026 5:35 pm
🖕
and
🖕
are the same thing.
Nice catch. :wink:

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