In support of your education moment, here's an image showing a machine lowering pressure to try and get the mask to seal:
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/L8lgwBLl.png)
In support of your education moment, here's an image showing a machine lowering pressure to try and get the mask to seal:
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Also use a P10 mask |
This is possible. But at 4-10, ejbpesca had a cluster like this on every night. So it's worth investigating further.Pugsy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:54 pmBTW....I am not convinced that the cluster of events on Oct 1 that everyone is so worried about is a real asleep cluster.
The breathing prior to the onset of the cluster....very irregular to my eye which makes me suspect the validity of those flagged events and the machine's response.
I agree 100%. That's why I've been trying to get ejbpesca to understand the need to keep the same settings for several nights to gather data, as long as the aerophagia is not an issue. And at this point, ejbpesca needs to also learn the lesson of "Change one thing at a time."Pugsy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:54 pmSo....someone went trying to kill some maybe arousal flagged events with more pressure....and that opened the door for the aeophagia monster to sneak in. Just because a machine might want to go higher doesn't always mean that the reason it wants to go higher is a valid reason and even if a valid reason it doesn't mean that it won't create a problem going higher.
I agree. I had said that if those nasty clusters continue while using 4-10cm, then it would worth considering a modest increase in pressure. Jumping from 4-10 to 6-11 is not a huge leap, but with aerophagia in the driver seat, it's too big of a leap.
I would have waited as well.I would have waited and got more concrete data and looked for trends and patterns.
I am not so sure that more pressure was the way to go because I am not so sure that the flow rate points to for sure asleep breathing.
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Also use a P10 mask |
In total agreement and would add in doing some self education as to arousal breathing irregularities and how IF there are again some ugly clusters that some investigation into "are those real asleep flags or are they arousal related flags" because if someone isn't really asleep then they don't need more pressure to try to fix whatever problem is causing the arousal breathing.....if we see arousal related flags and not asleep related flags on a consistent basis.robysue1 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:30 pmI would have waited as well.
At this point, I would suggest going back to 4-10 for at least 4 days, and a week would be better. Then look at the daily data for each day to see if there is always a nasty cluster at roughly the same time. If so, then some adjustments may be in order.
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/ |
Machine: AirSense 11 Autoset |
Mask: ResMed AirFit N30 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Newbie who loves her machine! |
Holy cow! ok.
Machine: AirSense 11 Autoset |
Mask: ResMed AirFit N30 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Newbie who loves her machine! |
The way our machines maintain the current pressure setting in the presence of a (large) leak is to blow more air into the leaky system. That additional air flow can feel like a pressure increase even though the pressure is either being maintained or even being allowed to decrease in order to see if the mask will reseal itself.lynninnj wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:52 pmI appreciate that. I often feel like as I am dozing off and my mask shifts a bit with my head it feels as though the pressure increases with the leak but I guess something that large would give the algorithm a different path to take.
Thanks for sharing that. ( cannot even IMAGINE 60 AHI and feel lucky not to experience it.)
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Also use a P10 mask |
I'd have to go back through the Oct. 1 data to see whether I think it looks like SWJ or not.Pugsy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:45 pmGoes back to a common sense thought we have always gone by.....don't go trying more pressure (when more pressure is causing a problem like aerophagia) until we are damn sure that more pressure is for sure needed. Now I am still on the fence with this one. I haven't seen clustering with for sure asleep breathing....what I have seen is clustering and not for sure asleep breathing.
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Also use a P10 mask |
Pressure NEVER EVER increases due to leaks. NEVER.
Please don't use that terminology, CPAPs don't, and *can't* "blow air down" anybodies throat. That confuses newbies and is just another thing that freaks them out.
Ok. Fine. But when I was a newbie it sure felt like air was being forced down my throat all night long. And the tickle in the back of my throat was real.
You only quoted part of what I said:
We are in agreement that when there is an added leak, the machine blows more air into the system in an effort to maintain the pressure in the system.robysue1 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:19 pmThat's basically what our CPAPs do all night: They blow air down our throats at a rate that is the same as the amount of air being lost through the exhaust vents of our masks---our airway, the mask, the hose, and the CPAP make up the leaky balloon: To keep the pressure constant, you have to replace the air that is lost due to the leaks.
Now if we spring an extra leak---our mask unseals or we open our mouth---the machine will attempt to keep the pressure constant by blowing additional air into the leaky system. The amount of additional air blown into leaky system will equal the size of the additional leak. (emphasis added)
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Also use a P10 mask |
I'm pretty sure there's no air being shoved down people's throats if they don't have gills to vent that air.robysue1 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:38 pmOk. Fine. But when I was a newbie it sure felt like air was being forced down my throat all night long. And the tickle in the back of my throat was real.
Because I was agreeing with you.
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: Machine: Resmed AirSense10 for Her with Climateline heated hose ; alternating masks. |
THANK you.
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |