Please Help! Chipmunk cheeks waking me up despite taping mouth shut

[jimbud]

P10 or Bleep, Cervical Collar, Head Band across mouth and cheeks. Collar holds head band in place.

No Chipmunk Cheeks, at least for me. Head band will also restrict mouth breathing (loss of Therapy Pressure).

YMMV.

JPB

[Chris33022]

P10 or Bleep, Cervical Collar, Head Band across mouth and cheeks. Collar holds head band in place.

No Chipmunk Cheeks, at least for me. Head band will also restrict mouth breathing (loss of Therapy Pressure).

Yes! This is exactly what I've been doing (while using the P10) and what has been working best for me, thanks to hearing about these tips on this forum. In fact, I use 2 head bands (2 layers), one over the other, across my mouth, because one isn't tight enough. And yes, the headbands are kept in place in the back by the cervical collar, which prevents them from slipping down. The problem is, I sometimes still get small chipmunk cheeks. When that happens I know there are 3 solutions to choose from: (1) lower the pressure, (2) increase the EPR, or (3) tighten the collar. I usually choose this third option, but sometimes end up with a collar so tight I fear I will die in my sleep of strangulation. But the tighter it is, the fewer chipmunk cheeks there are. I REALLY HOPE HUMAN INGENUITY WILL SOON INVENT A BETTER SOLUTION TO PREVENT CHIPMUNK CHEEKS!

[Pugsy]

Sort of OT but I just noticed your avatar. Is that your kitty or did you steal the picture off the internet and if it is your kitty what kind is it? It's just adorable.

A glimmer of hope for you regarding the chipmunk cheeks with time your body might learn to shut the backdoor to the oral cavity and block that air from ever entering your mouth. With time and experience your body may learn to make use of a reflex action and not allow the air to enter your mouth so it can't inflate the cheeks....no more chipmunk cheeks.
Can't guarantee it but it is possible. My body learned how to do it and I never ever get chipmunk cheeks now.
It's a reflex action though....I can't explain it but you might get lucky.

[Chris33022]

Sort of OT but I just noticed your avatar. Is that your kitty or did you steal the picture off the internet and if it is your kitty what kind is it? It's just adorable.

I wish this were my kitty, but no, it's merely my new favorite animal that I didn't even know the existence of until recently. I discovered it by chance while browsing the web (the photo is from Wikipedia, I hope that's OK). It's called a Pallas cat (or Manul cat). It's a wild cat that lives in the mountains at high altitude. It's the only cat whose pupils are round (not vertical slits), which gives the cat a hauntingly human expression. Here's a cute video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg8FMNEt8KY

And here's a cute video of my previous favorite animal: the red panda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4RE30l8zDY

A glimmer of hope for you regarding the chipmunk cheeks with time your body might learn to shut the backdoor to the oral cavity and block that air from ever entering your mouth. With time and experience your body may learn to make use of a reflex action and not allow the air to enter your mouth so it can't inflate the cheeks....no more chipmunk cheeks.
Can't guarantee it but it is possible. My body learned how to do it and I never ever get chipmunk cheeks now.
It's a reflex action though....I can't explain it but you might get lucky.

Yes, I often remember you telling me that after your first 3 months of CPAP you suddenly were no longer getting chipmunk cheeks. I've been on CPAP about 6 weeks and I hope that in another 6 weeks the same thing will happen to me. But I've been losing hope because I've heard of a lot of people who were never able to get rid of the chipmunk cheeks. I think it shouldn't be that hard for someone to invent/create a device that stops those chipmunk cheeks. For starters, it could be a device that's similar to the headband but is more rigid and curves inward at the cheeks to make sure the cheeks don't pop out. Maybe the headbands don't completely work for me because I have kind of hollow cheeks these days. But they still help.

[Architect]

Chipmunk cheeks never bothered me, when I first began therapy, reason being chipmunk cheeks was an indication, I was recieving good pressure. Overtime, chipmunk cheeks began to resolve itself, pressure was causing my throat to croak, and over time that went away, I was introduced to arophagia,. I prefer chipmunk cheeks over arophagia.

When chipmunk cheeks and throat croaking went away, I contact sleep clinic something is wrong with my machine, my air pressure is not as strong, my throat is no longer croacking, feeling pressure flow down my throat was peace of mind.

I took machine to clinic, they pressure test etc..... shared nothing was wrong. They weren't joking, I developed arophagia, thank goodness, haven't had symptoms in years.

[jimbud]

Yes!

In addition to the head band I bought a roll of 2" elastic band and made an additional band to go over the head band.
I cut it so it would overlap itself and then added 2" adhesive velcro to the ends so I could adjust the tightness of the bands. The adhesive eventually wore out and I started stapling the velcro to the elastic band. I have been doing this for aprox. 2 1/2 years. Have only had to make the elastic band twice (really did not have to replace the first one but it was about due).

The elastic band is less porous than a plain head band, but you can still breath through the first head band somewhat.

I use pliers to mash the staple ends down flat.

The head band cushions and wicks mouth moisture.

Like the cervical collar it just disappears on my face.

Oh, I have a beard. Not going to cut.
Had to find some solution and came up with this.

JPB

[Chris33022]

Overtime, chipmunk cheeks began to resolve itself, pressure was causing my throat to croak, and over time that went away, I was introduced to arophagia,. I prefer chipmunk cheeks over arophagia.

Architect, very sorry to hear you developed arophagia. I agree it sounds much worse than chipmunk cheeks. I'm glad you no longer have it and I hope I never get it. What is "throat croaking"? Is it burping or something else?

Yes!

In addition to the head band I bought a roll of 2" elastic band and made an additional band to go over the head band.

Would it be possible/easy for you to send me a link (like, from Amazon) of the kind of elastic band you're talking about? I might want to order some.

Like the cervical collar it just disappears on my face.

Oh, I have a beard. Not going to cut.
Had to find some solution and came up with this.

JPB

I remember seeing in an old thread on this forum a photo of a man with a beard and a cervical collar and two headbands over his mouth (I was already doing this myself when I saw the photo). Perhaps that was you. When you say it just disappears on your face, I assume you mean the feeling of it. For me it only halfway does because I need to make the cervical collar so tight that I'm practically choking. Otherwise the chipmunk cheeks manage to squeeze in through the back door.

[zonker]

I remember seeing in an old thread on this forum a photo of a man with a beard and a cervical collar and two headbands over his mouth (I was already doing this myself when I saw the photo). Perhaps that was you. When you say it just disappears on your face, I assume you mean the feeling of it. For me it only halfway does because I need to make the cervical collar so tight that I'm practically choking. Otherwise the chipmunk cheeks manage to squeeze in through the back door.

you mean, THIS guy?



i wouldn't trust him if'n i were you. doesn't know what he's talking about, most of the time!


i think you may have the wrong sized collar. i snap it closed but it's not so tight as to choke me. also, are you using the scunci hairbands, too?

[Chris33022]

you mean, THIS guy?

i wouldn't trust him if'n i were you. doesn't know what he's talking about, most of the time!


i think you may have the wrong sized collar. i snap it closed but it's not so tight as to choke me. also, are you using the scunci hairbands, too?

Yes, this was the photo! And now that I see it again I remember that I was extremely curious to know what was that dark line that passes over the headbands, but for some reason I didn't ask. So what is that thing?

Yes, I do use 2 scunci headbands over my mouth, just like in this photo, and I like this method more than taping my mouth shut (for various reasons).

My cervical collar attaches with velcro so I can make it any tightness I want. The problem is, if I don't make it extremely/uncomfortably tight, it's not very effective at preventing chipmunk cheeks.

[Pugsy]

I am having a hard time figuring out how the tightness of a cervical collar has anything to do with chipmunk cheeks happening.

Can someone maybe enlighten me???

Chipmunk cheeks are formed when lips are sealed and air enters the oral cavity via the back door that has opened and allowing air going up the nose and down the airway to try to make a premature exit through the oral cavity and since the lips are sealed it can't exit and cheeks inflate. What about the cervical collar affects cheeks inflating or not?
It simply does not compute in my mind.

[Chris33022]

I am having a hard time figuring out how the tightness of a cervical collar has anything to do with chipmunk cheeks happening.

Pugsy, I feel exactly the same way. I don't understand it either. In fact, last night I was pacing around my living room wondering how in the world the tightness of the cervical collar has any effect on keeping the back door closed. You would think that as long as your chin doesn't sink behind the collar, and as long as the collar keeps your mouth closed, then it wouldn't matter how tight the collar is. I assumed maybe you guys knew the answer. I just don't know. In any case I can tell you for sure that (at least in my case) making the collar very tight does make a huge improvement in keeping my chipmunk cheeks away. And I think I remember seeing, perhaps on another forum, someone saying the cervical collar needs to be tight. So perhaps I'm not the only one.

[jimbud]

ould it be possible/easy for you to send me a link (like, from Amazon) of the kind of elastic band you're talking about? I might want to order some.

I checked on amazon and they no longer have the type I use. But I did find this:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=2+elastic+ba ... 4_ts-doa-p
I will have to try this myself when I need a new band. Matter of fact I believe I will order some now and check it out. Looks intriguing...to me.

I am having a hard time figuring out how the tightness of a cervical collar has anything to do with chipmunk cheeks happening.

It does not for me. Haven't had the cheek problem since after the first month or so.

The bands just keeps me from mouth breathing when I fall into deep sleep.

The cervical collar supports my chin and keeps the bands out of my mouth.
A loose collar does not support very well and chin drops, then the band drops, then my therapy pressure drops.

JPB

[Chris33022]

I am having a hard time figuring out how the tightness of a cervical collar has anything to do with chipmunk cheeks happening.

Pugsy, I feel exactly the same way. I don't understand it either. In fact, last night I was pacing around my living room wondering how in the world the tightness of the cervical collar has any effect on keeping the back door closed. You would think that as long as your chin doesn't sink behind the collar, and as long as the collar keeps your mouth closed, then it wouldn't matter how tight the collar is. I assumed maybe you guys knew the answer. I just don't know. In any case I can tell you for sure that (at least in my case) making the collar very tight does make a huge improvement in keeping my chipmunk cheeks away. And I think I remember seeing, perhaps on another forum, someone saying the cervical collar needs to be tight. So perhaps I'm not the only one.

Pugsy, I think I may have just figured it out. So I made a drawing of what I think is happening when I make the collar very tight. In the first sketch, the person does not have the collar uncomfortably tight (the dark vertical bar is a cross-section of the collar). In the second sketch, the person has the collar on very (maybe uncomfortably) tight.

[Pugsy]

Yes...but...the back door is above where the cervical collar does anything to the airway. I had already thought of what you drew but I am having a hard time seeing that affect the cheeks inflating unless it is a pressure thing and keeping the pressure low with the airway being better opened is what is causing the cheeks to remain deflated.
Which would mean it is a pressure thing causing the cheeks to inflate. I still just don't see it affecting the cheeks inflating.
The back door is at the back of the oral cavity and above the back of the tongue....that's a long way from where the cervical collar is.

I don't doubt you but I am just having a hard problem figuring out the "why" behind it.
If it is just the pressure thing...would limiting the pressure also maybe help fix the problem and you wouldn't have to feel like the wife if trying to strangle you.

[Chris33022]

and you wouldn't have to feel like the wife if trying to strangle you.

I'm a woman, so that would be my husband trying to strangle me. I chose the name Chris because I assumed that was gender-neutral but my husband informed me too late that usually a woman is spelled Kris (I'm half-French, so didn't know better).

Yes...but...the back door is above where the cervical collar does anything to the airway.

I thought "closing the back door" meant the back of the tongue staying sealed against the soft palate. Isn't that how you close your back door?

When I refer to "chipmunk cheeks" it's short-hand to mean any air entering my mouth through the back door. Sometimes I nip it in the bud and the air doesn't get a chance to accumulate in large quantities in my mouth and puff out my cheeks. But the moment my tongue gets unsealed from my soft palace and any air enters my mouth from the back door, it wakes me up. As I tried to show in the drawing, maybe a tight cervical collar pushes the back of the tongue up closer to the soft palate so that it's not as difficult to maintain that seal.

I am having a hard time seeing that affect the cheeks inflating unless it is a pressure thing and keeping the pressure low with the airway being better opened is what is causing the cheeks to remain deflated.

I'm confused by this part. I would think making the collar tighter would make the airway less opened, which I assume would increase the pressure, not decrease it. But in any case yes, I noticed that when I decrease the pressure on the settings of the machine I get much fewer and gentler chipmunk cheeks.