a thin line between dry mouth and rainout

[ChicagoGranny]

Ooops, wrong chart.

#2/3 and/or #14/15

[zonker]

At some time in the future I would like to see what your reports look like (and how you feel of course) with some rather marked changes in the settings.
Like
EPAP min 12
PS 4
Max IPAP 25
Auto mode of course

Your choice of course.

i'm gonna try that!

but i'm wondering....should i be moving this conversation over to my vauto therapy thread?

i mean this fork in the thread, not the conversation regarding the thread title.

[zonker]

and is that specific gum available readily at drugstores?

Yes, we buy the big packs at Sam's. Walmart has smaller packs reasonably priced.

where are you placing it, exactly?

Sorta on the first and second molar; horizontal, half on tooth, half on gum above. After a while in the mouth, it will soften and stick like a third-grader's Bazooka on the underside of a desktop.

#2/3 and/or #14/15

i think this image is perfect. it accurately reflects the size of my mouth!

as to the rest, i'm going to experiment with the settings pugsy has suggested. will keep yours in mind if'n the pressure settings don't please me.

[zonker]

So, airflow over your oral tissues would not be the cause of dry mouth. Then, it could be pressure from the CPAP that is in the mouth. This pressure could easily prevent the flow of saliva from your salivary glands.

seems that you are spot on. tried the settings pugsy recommended with good result.

well spotted, you.

[zonker]

Like
EPAP min 12
PS 4
Max IPAP 25

did as you suggested and had a marked reduction in dry mouth. had one period of obstructives which resulted in ahi of 1. however, i think this coincides with the time i woke up on my back. had a bit of dry mouth then which makes be suspect dry mouth, back and obstructives all related.

will wait to get more oscar graphs then post them here.

i must say, i'm really impressed at how both you and chicago granny spotted this. we'll see how i continue.

excelsior!

[zonker]

Now your pressure settings....my own personal thoughts is that you are most likely using a lot more pressure than is really needed to address your apneas because in the past you were chasing AHI numbers wanting to get them as low as possible.
At some point in your experiments I would like to see you really give this VAuto machine a chance to do what it can do when not having its hands tied so much. Your choice but I have read that just having the air enter the mouth from the back airway open door can suppress saliva production and cause a dry mouth even though the air can't exit the mouth via breathing.
I wish I save that document (thought I did but I can't find it) as I thought that could explain a lot of people's dry mouth complaints with no mouth breathing.
Your pressures are quite high...maybe if we reduce them a bit we can reduce the drying effect....something to think about.
At some time in the future I would like to see what your reports look like (and how you feel of course) with some rather marked changes in the settings.
Like
EPAP min 12
PS 4
Max IPAP 25
Auto mode of course

Your choice of course.

so i changed my settings as you've suggested. and here are the charts for the last three nights-







hmmm...there's something about that 1 and 2 am stuff. seems i like to roll over onto my back. will have to work on that.

another very minor complaint. at these settings, i do feel as though i'm not breathing as naturally as before. seems i'm not getting into sync with the machine. do you think i should alter my settings? or just ride with it a bit and see if i adjust?

other than that, no other negative impact on my sleep quality. again, the dry mouth is gone.

please let me know what you think.

[Pugsy]

Not surprised that 4 ps might seem a bit weird. After all you have been essentially using 3 PS at higher pressures in like forever.
If it seems too uncomfortable you can sure back off again. You are in the drivers seat.

The 2 AM stuff...wonder if that is REM related. The timing would sure seem to line up.
You might consider trying 1 cm more EPAP minimum.
You have lots of options...always factor in your overall comfort though. Remember if we aren't comfortable we might not sleep so great.

[zonker]

Not surprised that 4 ps might seem a bit weird. After all you have been essentially using 3 PS at higher pressures in like forever.
If it seems too uncomfortable you can sure back off again. You are in the drivers seat.

The 2 AM stuff...wonder if that is REM related. The timing would sure seem to line up.
You might consider trying 1 cm more EPAP minimum.
You have lots of options...always factor in your overall comfort though. Remember if we aren't comfortable we might not sleep so great.

thanks for all of this. i don't like to change more than one thing at a time. so will set ps @ 3 for now and see how that flies.

is there some info somewhere that i can access to start understanding these odd-to-me settings? particularly a very dumbed down version? i don't want to just start dial wingin' and end up doing something that will make my sleep less comfortable.

again, thanks!

[zonker]

3 ps left me a bit dry. ahi was .22, obstructives. so will bump by increments. tonight will set at 3.4 and see how she goes.

excelsior!

[SummerTime]

Hi Zonker, I sure hope your sleep continues to improve!

I'm following this thread with interest. Altho I didn't change machines, I still have dry mouth issues. I've tried everything I've seen here; your trick along with others. Very frustrating.
.

[zonker]

Hi Zonker, I sure hope your sleep continues to improve!

I'm following this thread with interest. Altho I didn't change machines, I still have dry mouth issues. I've tried everything I've seen here; your trick along with others. Very frustrating.
.

i know, right? i reckon it's that darn "your mileage may vary" thing, but i wish it wasn't. if only there were some magic formula that would work on everyone!

the 3.4 helped and i'm staying with it tonight. my ahi was 0.56 with the pesky cluster of obstructive apneas that my posted charts show. i have no doubt that pugsy is right and it's a result of rem sleep.

we'll see what tonight brings.

[zonker]

so it's "been a minute" as the kids today say. thought i'd pop in and update this mess.

i've been taking care of other things and haven't found time to write out my thoughts. it comes down to the fact that i'm still experiencing dry mouth. and alternating with rainout. i have tried many combinations of hose temp and humidity. i have a cover for the short hose that connects my p10 to the machines hose. this helps on lower settings og humidity but not much on the higher settings. i've searched around a bit and can't find the barrell cozy i bought from padacheek.com. so i just ordered a new one and i'll see how that goes.

it's fairly discouraging because i don't remember this with my autoset machine. i'm still of the opinion that this happened when i first started with the autoset, but that it the machine became weaker over time and wasn't blowing as heartily as the vauto is currently.

i'd be happy to try some different settings. i'v gone through a lanky lefty youtube video that lsat was kind enough to link to. and i've read the clinicians manual. i just don't feel i have a keen enough grasp of what i'm reading and seeing to make any competent changes.

i know that i still feel like i'm getting too much pressure at my current settings. i don't know if i should reduce pressure or change the cycle.

my settings are:

MAX IPAP 25.0
MIN EPAP 11.8
PS 5
TRIGGER VERY HIGH
CYCLE MED

any suggestions would be most welcome.

and just btw? at this point, i'd be very happy with a higher ahi if it means i can sleep more comfortably.

[Pugsy]

Why the PS of 5?

[zonker]

Why the PS of 5?

derp!

fat finger, should have typed 4.

[Pugsy]

It's late and I am going to bed so don't rush to answer these questions.
Instead think about them.

Your aren't sleeping soundly??? Waking often?? Is it the dry mouth? Is it the rain out?
Is it something else? How many wake ups? How many hours of real sleep are you getting?
Feeling like crap during the day?

Medications? Even OTC....what are you taking?

To fix a problem we have to identify the problem(s).