Distinguish between Cheyne-stokes and Periodic Breathing
Distinguish between Cheyne-stokes and Periodic Breathing
Resmed appears to label a pattern of breathing as" Cheyne-stokes".
Respironics appears to label a very similar pattern as "Periodic Breathing"
Is there a distinction/difference between between the patterns?
Respironics appears to label a very similar pattern as "Periodic Breathing"
Is there a distinction/difference between between the patterns?
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Re: Distinguish between Cheyne-stokes and Periodic Breathing
Definitely - the former is more serious... have you googled them?
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Re: Distinguish between Cheyne-stokes and Periodic Breathing
and scary!
Yes, I have googled but with unsatisfactory results.
What I'm looking for is the differences in the pattern. What Resmed labels Cheyne-stokes, looks remarkably like what Respironics labels Periodic Breathing.
What I'm trying to capture is if there is a difference in the breathing pattern that distinguishes between the two, what is the "thing" that distinguishes Cheyne-stokes from Periodic Breathing?
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Re: Distinguish between Cheyne-stokes and Periodic Breathing
Bumping for you...
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Re: Distinguish between Cheyne-stokes and Periodic Breathing
People that know the answer have been down that waste of time road already, bump all you like.
Get OSCAR
Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.
Re: Distinguish between Cheyne-stokes and Periodic Breathing
Thanks for your helpful input
Now. back on topic....
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- Respirator99
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- Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:39 am
- Location: Australia
Re: Distinguish between Cheyne-stokes and Periodic Breathing
True Cheyne Stokes Respiration consists of a smooth waxing and waning of the air flow, with a central apnea occurring at every low flow. It's a problem if it persists for more than a short period and may be indicative of heart failure. The medical definition includes a requirement that the waxing & waning persists for 45 minutes or more.
The machines typically report any repeated patterns, even if they are not true CSR. For instance a repeated series of obstructive apnea caused by sleeping position will be labelled as CSR or PB.
The machines typically report any repeated patterns, even if they are not true CSR. For instance a repeated series of obstructive apnea caused by sleeping position will be labelled as CSR or PB.
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Re: Distinguish between Cheyne-stokes and Periodic Breathing
Does it make a difference if the low flow rate terminates in a obstructive versus central?Respirator99 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:07 pmTrue Cheyne Stokes Respiration consists of a smooth waxing and waning of the air flow, with a central apnea occurring at every low flow.
The patterns I'm looking at are about 5 waxing breaths followed by 5 waning breaths followed by period of about 10 seconds of apnea (either CA or OA) then the pattern repeats sometimes for 30-45 minutes. Respironics labels this as Periodic Breathing, while Resmed labels it as (the scarier) CSR.Respirator99 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:07 pmThe machines typically report any repeated patterns, even if they are not true CSR. For instance a repeated series of obstructive apnea caused by sleeping position will be labelled as CSR or PB.
Are you saying that the two may be synonymous ?
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- Respirator99
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Re: Distinguish between Cheyne-stokes and Periodic Breathing
Yes, true CSR involves central apneas. Repeated obstructive apneas (if correctly flagged) constitute PB, but are not CSR.Does it make a difference if the low flow rate terminates in a obstructive versus central?
Not exactly. All CSR is periodic breathing but not all PB is CSR. I think Resmed are wrong to label it all as CSR - it should be called PB unless it meets the strict criteria for Cheyne Stokes Respiration.Are you saying that the two may be synonymous ?
Edit to add: It would help if you could post an Oscar chart showing the events you describe.
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Re: Distinguish between Cheyne-stokes and Periodic Breathing
If I understand you correctly, this would be a fair exemplar of CSR?Respirator99 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:23 pmEdit to add: It would help if you could post an Oscar chart showing the events you describe.
On the other hand if the CAs were identified as OAs, then it would NOT be CSR, but Periodic Breathing.
Incidentally this snippet is taken from an episode that persisted for ~40 minutes, terminated by an full awakening.
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- Respirator99
- Posts: 343
- Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:39 am
- Location: Australia
Re: Distinguish between Cheyne-stokes and Periodic Breathing
That's pretty close to "classic" CSR as I understand it. The fact it persists for 40 minutes is possibly indicative of an underlying problem, especially if this is a frequent occurrence. If that was my chart I'd be off to the doctor, just to rule out anything nasty.
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Machine: ResMed AirCurve 10 ASV Machine with Heated Humidifier |
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* Download Oscar
* Oscar help
* An alternative to Oscar - try SleepHQ
I have no medical training or qualifications. Take my advice for what it's worth.
* Oscar help
* An alternative to Oscar - try SleepHQ
I have no medical training or qualifications. Take my advice for what it's worth.
Re: Distinguish between Cheyne-stokes and Periodic Breathing
When you say cycle time I assume that you mean the time interval between peak of wax to the next peak of wax. Is that what you mean?
What would the cycle time be for a classic CSR?
Any references for that criteria?
So is it your opinion is that Resmed is probably wrong to label this pattern as CSR?
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Machine: AirSense 11 Autoset |
Mask: FlexiFit HC431 Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier |
"THE INFORMATION PROVIDED ON CPAPTALK.COM IS NOT INTENDED NOR RECOMMENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL ADVICE."
Re: Distinguish between Cheyne-stokes and Periodic Breathing
Yes.
>40 seconds, typically 45-90 seconds. I think that sample just misses.What would the cycle time be for a classic CSR?
AASM Scoring RulesAny references for that criteria?
ResMed can do whatever they please.So is it your opinion is that Resmed is probably wrong to label this pattern as CSR?
Re: Distinguish between Cheyne-stokes and Periodic Breathing
My question is about the labeling of the pattern, CSR versus PB. If the wax/wane cycle must terminate in a Central ?
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Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier |
"THE INFORMATION PROVIDED ON CPAPTALK.COM IS NOT INTENDED NOR RECOMMENDED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL ADVICE."