CPAP specifically for PVCs?

[Pugsy]

Actually 8 central apneas over an entire night doesn't necessarily make it a mixed apnea diagnosis because it's normal to have a few central apneas here and there during the night.

[lars_the_bear]

Actually 8 central apneas over an entire night doesn't necessarily make it a mixed apnea diagnosis because it's normal to have a few central apneas here and there during the night.

Fair enough, As I said, sleep isn't really my field

In the end, though, I'm not 100% convinced that I have any kind of sleep apnoea, given that I have inconsistent studies and no overt symptoms. As you (I think) said, there are other possible reasons for intermittent oxygen desaturation, although I think I've been tested so extensively that I think all the non-obscure ones are ruled out. I guess I'll have a better idea when I can get some data out of the CPAP machine. That's on my to-do list, but it's Christmas, and my to-do list is very long just now.

Ultimately, all I want to know is whether CPAP will fix my bloody PVCs. It hasn't so far, but I'm still learning how to use it, so I'm not expecting miracles.

Thanks for the advice, though -- I appreciate your time and trouble.

Best wishes
Lars.

[squid13]

My wife was bothered with PVC's and her cardiologist told her to take Magnesium Oxide 400 MG and it stopped the PVC's. Don't know how it did it but it worked and that's all that count's.

[Pugsy]

I understand your frustrations but medical science is far from perfect. There are always some sort of variables potentially muddying up things. We as a population generally expect immediate answers and immediate fixes and don't take the "I don't know why" answer very well. I worked in the medical field for over 30 years and while I know (in my brain) this uncertainty fact it doesn't make it any easier to swallow. I am faced with that fact right now as to a health problem I am having now and a procedure schedule next week that the doctor says has maybe a 50/50 chance of helping me. I understand the facts but I don't like them because I want them to fix my problem NOW. I want definitive answers NOW.

I also understand your frustrations given you have had 2 conflicting sleep apnea sleep studies. Which one do we trust???
I don't blame you one bit for wondering and I would likely be doing the same thing.

You present with several questions that we simply can't offer definitive answers to.
The fact that you have significant desats while awake just doesn't compute. That's not normal at all when in comes to blaming sleep apnea for the desats. Sleep apnea is a sleep disordered breathing problem...you gotta be asleep first. It is NOT an awake breathing problem.
Now you say the PVCs didn't start up until a couple of weeks after Covid and we all know that there is SO much we don't know about what Covid can do to the body in terms of what it can do to the body acutely or long term. Which would make me also wonder if the desats themselves also just started after Covid. You probably had no reason to check your O2 levels prior to the onset of the PVCs so we don't know if you had desats prior to Covid.

Your sleep studies...both were home sleep studies???? Is that correct? Do you know which type of sleep study you had?
Was it a type 2 or type 3? It reported the central apneas which I assume means at least a type 3.
I wonder did it actually measure sleep status itself??? That takes a type 2 sleep study. In lab settings are type 2 studies.
Different types of sleep studies explained here.
http://freecpapadvice.com/home-sleep-tests
If the second sleep study was done in a lab....I would most definitely value its results over the first not so conclusive sleep study.
If your second sleep study doesn't mention sleep stages at all anywhere in the report we assume it wasn't type 2.
Makes me wonder how much real sleep you actually got.

For sure a lot more questions than definitive answers at this point.

[lars_the_bear]

Thanks. Neither study was done in a lab, sadly. In the UK, getting a lab sleep study is almost impossible at present. In fact, it's difficult to get any medical care that isn't for Covid. The first study I had would have been "type 3" in your list, I guess. The equipment had a nasal canula but, since my mouth falls open when I sleep, I doubt it registered anything. Also the chest strap kept coming loose, and setting off an alarm.

The second test didn't fit any of your categories, I think, because it used the "peripheral arterial tonometry" method for detecting arousals. It had a body position/accelerometer sensor, a breath sound sensor, as well as sp02 and PAT. Being the geek that I am, I trust the second study more, just because of the huge volume of data that was reported. It did include sleep stages, although I have no idea how it worked that out. However, on neither occasion did I sleep normally. I don't (yet) sleep normally with a CPAP machine, either -- I'm a very light sleeper, and every little irregularity keeps me awake.

I agree that the fact that I desaturate when I'm not actually asleep does not fit OSA. However, I'm given to understand (bearing in mind that this isn't my field) that long-term OSA sufferers can lose sensitivity to pCO2 (as folks with COPD often do). So these folks (AIUI) hypoventilate to some extent even when awake. I presume that if I do suffer from sleep apnoea (and I'm not convinced I do) I've probably had the problem for decades. Since I have no overt symptoms, I would never have known.

TBH I'm leaning towards the idea that my PVCs are the result of microscopic myocardial damage caused by Covid, and that CPAP won't work. But I know it's worked for other people, and I want to give it a fair try -- I'm just not sure how long I should persevere. I suspect nobody else does, either.

Best wishes
Lars.

[Pugsy]

I don't know how long to give cpap a try either at least in terms of the PVC aspect.
It's 50/50 at best even if OSA was the cause of the PVCs from what I have read.
The fact that you don't seem to have any of the classic OSA symptoms that the second sleep study points to you should be having doesn't really surprise me. Not everyone will have the classic symptoms. It does make it more difficult to justify doing something that you find annoying though.

I am totally unfamiliar with the type of home study you had the second time...Sorry but that's above my pay grade.

At this point you do seem to have more questions than answers but it has only been a week on cpap and while it would have been really nice to have a marked change in something to maybe give you some answers....sometimes life just doesn't give us those nice clear cut answers we want.

[Miss Emerita]

There's a wealth of good information about PAT tests here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7721305/

It also includes discussion of the value of PAT tests for people with A-fib.

[Deborah K.]

Lars, one thing to keep in mind is that many of us never felt any physical thing that would indicate we had apnea. I have been using my machine for almost two years, and I can't say that I feel better, because I never felt bad. My initial AHI was, I think, 38. My husband, on the other hand, had an AHI of about 95. He feels tremendously better now. And some folks with an AHI lower than your 20 feel a lot better. We are all different in what we perceive.

Anyway, please hang in there with your machine. Lots of folks find the adjustment difficult, but consider it well worth it. Also, dialing your machine in, with the help of folks here, can make your adjustment to the machine much, much easier, and much more comfortable. You seem to feel that asking folks to review your sleep study or posting Oscar results for review is asking too much. On the contrary, the whole point of this forum is to HELP others make the very best of their treatment. Please post your sleep study and some Oscar results. It will help the folks here figure out how to help you, which they WANT to do.

As to the PVCs I know nothing. However, it may be necessary to use the machine for some time before they go away. Changes brought about by using a pap machine can take a long while to manifest.

[Miss Emerita]

What she said!

[lars_the_bear]

Please post your sleep study and some Oscar results. It will help the folks here figure out how to help you, which they WANT to do.

Thank you. I finally managed to keep the darned mask on for the whole night, and I'll post some data from OSCAR shortly.

Best wishes
Lars.

[rick blaine]

Hello lars – for the second time today.

You said:

and I'll post some data from OSCAR shortly.

If you had posted your OSCAR results here, I might have saved myself some time. From what you say about – for example – pCO2, you don't need me to explain the parameters of breathing to you.

My suggestion is the same. Something is causing you to have both day-time breathing irregularity and asleep breathing irregularity, and whatever is producing the asleep breathing irregularity, it is unlikely to be obstructive sleep apnea. And the PVCs may be a consequence of the disordered breathing.

So continue to investigate – and look elsewhere.

PS. The general rule of etiquette here – and I'm as much of a guest as you are – is: please do not start a new thread for each different aspect of your current presenting condition. Keep it all in one place – and then people won't miss what might be an important and relevant fact.

If I had known what is said above about types of sleep study you've had, and had clocked that you have some knowledge about the availability of sleep labs in the NHS, I would have assumed you knew about the private option.

Compliments of the season.

[lars_the_bear]

If I had known what is said above about types of sleep study you've had, and had clocked that you have some knowledge about the availability of sleep labs in the NHS, I would have assumed you knew about the private option.

Sorry... I originally raised this thread to ask whether people had had success with CPAP for PVCs. I wasn't intending it to become a discussion of my particular measurements and how to use OSCAR. Sorry if I have caused confusion.

Best wishes
Lars.

[palerider]

If I had known what is said above about types of sleep study you've had, and had clocked that you have some knowledge about the availability of sleep labs in the NHS, I would have assumed you knew about the private option.

Sorry... I originally raised this thread to ask whether people had had success with CPAP for PVCs. I wasn't intending it to become a discussion of my particular measurements and how to use OSCAR. Sorry if I have caused confusion.

Best wishes
Lars.

Honestly, it's best if you just keep ALL your questions in ONE thread, littering the forum with questions isn't honestly a big problem, but it makes it harder to follow your issues, and I personally can't be bothered to read a dozen different threads by one person just to figure out what might be a good suggestion to help them.