Any of you suffer from panic disorder too?
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Frankiedude
btolman,
I had panic attacks at times from about age 20 to age 45.
Many people use the word panic to describe intense anxiety, but having had both I know there is a very clear difference. Anxiety, no matter how bad, is not nearly the actual PANIC state of panic attacks.
Panic attacks last only about 15-20 minutes, while intense anxiety can roll on for hours, even days or weeks. In panic attacks, the sufferer is convinced that something dreadful (death, insanity) will occur within just a few minutes.
During some of my panic attacks when I believed I was going to be dead within minutes (despite being a very healthy young woman!) I would look for an out-of-the-way place to die (stairwells, alleyways) -- just some sort of animal going-hiding-to-die instinct, I guess. I never looked for help to save my life because I was so convinced it was OVER.
Never had a panic attack during sleep and don't think I developed sleep breathing problems until years after my last panic attack.
If you read the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association (probably in most libraries) criteria for panic disorder, you may note that having panic attacks once in a while does not mean that one has panic disorder. My recollection is that a panic disorder diagnosis requires a considerable amount of anxiety over having panic attacks (perhaps even the development of avoidance).
Why I think I have not had a panic attack in about 10 years:
1. I learned simple hand-temperature warming biofeedback (an excellent thing for all anxious people). That taught me that I had a lot more control over my physiological reactions than I'd ever suspected and helped me feel more able to control all emotional states. (It is a simple do-it-yourself project.)
2. My attitude towards fear gradually changed. I stopped despising myself for being fearful and started accepting it more. (Courage isn't the absence of fear. Courage is enduring despite fear.)
3. I learned to laugh (in retrospect) at the wacky things I thought and did during panic attacks: When you consider something entertaining, even in hindsight, it helps a lot.
4. During the wind-up phase of the last panic attack I had (on a bus leaving downtown), I suddenly felt that I had two routes: I could be afraid or I could be sad. So I chose the latter (much easier!), but I was deeply depressed for several months thereafter. The experience led me to understand that with some emotions, I have a toggle switch: I can substitute, usually unconsciously, sometimes consciously. So I understood that panic at times was simply other things building up that got expressed as panic. And knowing that helped me become more aware of the feelings that can lead to panic.
5. I started being more attentive to my need to ratchet down sensory-neuro stimulation in certain situations. I don't go anywhere without earplugs in my pocket so I can at least shut out noise. That's just self-respectful behavior, not putting up with anything and everything, but I think it helps quell discomforts that can eventually fuel panic.
I did not use drugs such as described for WillSucceed. I tried some of those for depression years back: they did not help and some even worsened my anxiety and depression problems considerably in seemingly paradoxical reactions.
Don't give up on the idea that you can unravel the problem and make it better. Be aware that there is a downside to turning the problem over to professionals: Learning to help ourselves directly counters anxiety, whereas being dependent on others and drugs they prescribe can make us feel more helpless.
Good luck with your panic.
Grace
I had panic attacks at times from about age 20 to age 45.
Many people use the word panic to describe intense anxiety, but having had both I know there is a very clear difference. Anxiety, no matter how bad, is not nearly the actual PANIC state of panic attacks.
Panic attacks last only about 15-20 minutes, while intense anxiety can roll on for hours, even days or weeks. In panic attacks, the sufferer is convinced that something dreadful (death, insanity) will occur within just a few minutes.
During some of my panic attacks when I believed I was going to be dead within minutes (despite being a very healthy young woman!) I would look for an out-of-the-way place to die (stairwells, alleyways) -- just some sort of animal going-hiding-to-die instinct, I guess. I never looked for help to save my life because I was so convinced it was OVER.
Never had a panic attack during sleep and don't think I developed sleep breathing problems until years after my last panic attack.
If you read the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association (probably in most libraries) criteria for panic disorder, you may note that having panic attacks once in a while does not mean that one has panic disorder. My recollection is that a panic disorder diagnosis requires a considerable amount of anxiety over having panic attacks (perhaps even the development of avoidance).
Why I think I have not had a panic attack in about 10 years:
1. I learned simple hand-temperature warming biofeedback (an excellent thing for all anxious people). That taught me that I had a lot more control over my physiological reactions than I'd ever suspected and helped me feel more able to control all emotional states. (It is a simple do-it-yourself project.)
2. My attitude towards fear gradually changed. I stopped despising myself for being fearful and started accepting it more. (Courage isn't the absence of fear. Courage is enduring despite fear.)
3. I learned to laugh (in retrospect) at the wacky things I thought and did during panic attacks: When you consider something entertaining, even in hindsight, it helps a lot.
4. During the wind-up phase of the last panic attack I had (on a bus leaving downtown), I suddenly felt that I had two routes: I could be afraid or I could be sad. So I chose the latter (much easier!), but I was deeply depressed for several months thereafter. The experience led me to understand that with some emotions, I have a toggle switch: I can substitute, usually unconsciously, sometimes consciously. So I understood that panic at times was simply other things building up that got expressed as panic. And knowing that helped me become more aware of the feelings that can lead to panic.
5. I started being more attentive to my need to ratchet down sensory-neuro stimulation in certain situations. I don't go anywhere without earplugs in my pocket so I can at least shut out noise. That's just self-respectful behavior, not putting up with anything and everything, but I think it helps quell discomforts that can eventually fuel panic.
I did not use drugs such as described for WillSucceed. I tried some of those for depression years back: they did not help and some even worsened my anxiety and depression problems considerably in seemingly paradoxical reactions.
Don't give up on the idea that you can unravel the problem and make it better. Be aware that there is a downside to turning the problem over to professionals: Learning to help ourselves directly counters anxiety, whereas being dependent on others and drugs they prescribe can make us feel more helpless.
Good luck with your panic.
Grace
Started CPAP on 7/1/2005
Mild apnea
Plus upper airway resistance syndrome with severe alpha intrusion
Mild apnea
Plus upper airway resistance syndrome with severe alpha intrusion
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Sleepless in St. Louis
- Posts: 254
- Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:12 am
- Location: St. Louis
That's interesing. How do you go about leaning this? I have not really had big problems with panic or anxiety for almost a year but it would be good to have this kind of tool in my emotional tool box. While I think getting my sleep issues under control has done me a world of good, I still am prone to being an anxious person sometimes. I would love to know how to calm myself without going back to anti depressants and the other chemicals that docs seem to throw at this problem.1. I learned simple hand-temperature warming biofeedback (an excellent thing for all anxious people). That taught me that I had a lot more control over my physiological reactions than I'd ever suspected and helped me feel more able to control all emotional states. (It is a simple do-it-yourself project.)
Sucking Wind since Feb '06.
Symptoms of Depression in Individuals With Obstructive Sleep Apnea May Be Amenable to Treatment With Continuous Positive Airway Pressure
http://www.chestjournal.org/cgi/content ... 128/3/1304
Discusses depression (not anxiety or panic attacks).
http://www.chestjournal.org/cgi/content ... 128/3/1304
Discusses depression (not anxiety or panic attacks).
Hand Warming Explanation: http://www.bio-medical.com/news_display.cfm?newsid=21
Other links if you google "hand-temperature warming biofeedback".
I would like to hear some more comments on this from gracie97.
Thanks.
Other links if you google "hand-temperature warming biofeedback".
I would like to hear some more comments on this from gracie97.
Thanks.
Dear Sleepless:
I initially learned hand-warming using biofeedback in a few sessions with someone who taught such things. My PCP suggested it for migraines, but it didn't help my migraines.
Now I use a cheap little device, about 2" by 3" I got over the internet called a Stress Thermometer. Think it is just a modified indoor-outdoor thermometer. Cost about $15. You just tape the 'outdoor' end to one of your fingers, and it will give pretty good (fast and in tenths of a degree) feedback about finger temperature. There are fancier devices, but that one works pretty well.
(I don't know if any of type that plugs into a computer and displays temperature rise in graph display are reasonably priced yet. The cheapest computer model I've seen of that sort yet was part of a stress-reduction biofeedback game called something like The Wild Beyond.)
I just focus on doing whatever relaxation techniques seem best at the time (deep breathing, some autogenic suggestions, some progressive relaxation). Then I look for feelings of warmth anywhere in my hands. If my hands are really cold so that I can't find any feelings of warmth, I'll try thinking about how the warm blood is actually flowing through them and search for some little hint of that.
It's more about noticing what is there and focusing on that than trying to produce something. At a certain stage of handwarming, I start noticing that I can feel a bit of pulse in my fingers: Focusing on that helps. Past that point, I often imagine that my fingers are getting fatter from being engorged with lots of warm blood, that they feel like plump sausages.
The temperature reading is the feedback that reinforces it. Some people use visualizations (imagining the sun shining on their hand). If you have trouble getting it going, you could even try holding a glass of warm water.
I believe a lot of very anxious people are also quite imaginative and even creative people: It takes imagination to figure out a lot of dire things to dread that are probably never going to happen and convince oneself it is happening! But the sword can cut both ways: A very imaginative person can use that same trait to quell anxiety, and things like biofeedback are an example of that.
Are you familiar with The Relaxation and Stress Reduction Workbook by Davis et al.? That book doesn't get into biofeedback or handwarming, but it is chock full of straightforward instructions for a large variety of anxiety-reducing techniques and lots of helpful instructions.
Some research has shown quite a connection between anxiety and depression, e.g. the former causes the latter or at least contributing to it significantly. One project I read about successfully used stress reduction as a way of keeping people from relapsing into depression.
Gracie
I initially learned hand-warming using biofeedback in a few sessions with someone who taught such things. My PCP suggested it for migraines, but it didn't help my migraines.
Now I use a cheap little device, about 2" by 3" I got over the internet called a Stress Thermometer. Think it is just a modified indoor-outdoor thermometer. Cost about $15. You just tape the 'outdoor' end to one of your fingers, and it will give pretty good (fast and in tenths of a degree) feedback about finger temperature. There are fancier devices, but that one works pretty well.
(I don't know if any of type that plugs into a computer and displays temperature rise in graph display are reasonably priced yet. The cheapest computer model I've seen of that sort yet was part of a stress-reduction biofeedback game called something like The Wild Beyond.)
I just focus on doing whatever relaxation techniques seem best at the time (deep breathing, some autogenic suggestions, some progressive relaxation). Then I look for feelings of warmth anywhere in my hands. If my hands are really cold so that I can't find any feelings of warmth, I'll try thinking about how the warm blood is actually flowing through them and search for some little hint of that.
It's more about noticing what is there and focusing on that than trying to produce something. At a certain stage of handwarming, I start noticing that I can feel a bit of pulse in my fingers: Focusing on that helps. Past that point, I often imagine that my fingers are getting fatter from being engorged with lots of warm blood, that they feel like plump sausages.
The temperature reading is the feedback that reinforces it. Some people use visualizations (imagining the sun shining on their hand). If you have trouble getting it going, you could even try holding a glass of warm water.
I believe a lot of very anxious people are also quite imaginative and even creative people: It takes imagination to figure out a lot of dire things to dread that are probably never going to happen and convince oneself it is happening! But the sword can cut both ways: A very imaginative person can use that same trait to quell anxiety, and things like biofeedback are an example of that.
Are you familiar with The Relaxation and Stress Reduction Workbook by Davis et al.? That book doesn't get into biofeedback or handwarming, but it is chock full of straightforward instructions for a large variety of anxiety-reducing techniques and lots of helpful instructions.
Some research has shown quite a connection between anxiety and depression, e.g. the former causes the latter or at least contributing to it significantly. One project I read about successfully used stress reduction as a way of keeping people from relapsing into depression.
Gracie
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Sleepless in St. Louis
- Posts: 254
- Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:12 am
- Location: St. Louis
Thanks Gracie. Food for thought and some research on my part is in order. The mind is an amazing thing. My whole family must be eligible for MENSA. We all tend towards the high strung. I never thought of it that way before but I think you are right. It does take a certain amount of abstract thought to come up with all the ways something bad is going to happen to you.
Sucking Wind since Feb '06.
You remind me of a friend from my college days. A half dozen of us used to sit around for hours in the wee hours of the morning and discuss philosophy, sociology, and psychology. The discussion would usually break up when this particular guy would say, "You would be better off if you had lower IQs; you wouldn't worry about all this".Sleepless in St. Louis wrote:........................ My whole family must be eligible for MENSA. We all tend towards the high strung. .................................. It does take a certain amount of abstract thought to come up with all the ways something bad is going to happen to you.
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elpasojoe
panic attacks
I used to get some crazy panic attacks just after I fell asleep. I would wake up with shortness of breath and chlostrophobic anxiety. My doctor prescribed xanax to help me sleep better. My wife noticed that I would stop breathing during the night. I scheduled a sleep study and found that I had moderate sleep apnea. I've been sleeping with a hose on my head for about 6 months and have never felt better. I can stay awake during meetings, I don't put my car in park and take 10 second naps at stop lights anymore and best of all the panic attacks have just about dissappeared.