My diagnosis is Upper airway resistance syndrome, so ahi is not really a good indicator for me if I am well treated or not.
So what can I look at to see if the CPAP treament is good enough?
And from these results what do you see?
When I look at the flow rate I see a lot of patterns that kind look like cheyenne stokes, see picture; Do I need to woory about that and talk to the doctor about it or is it not cheyenne stokes?
On top of the UARS I am battling insomnia and are on a sleep restriction treatment where, for now, I am only allowed to be in bed for a maximum of 6 hours.
Does anyone have some good input on how to eliminate all the wake ups during the night caused by insomnia?
UARS and what to look for
UARS and what to look for
Last edited by mwulff on Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: UARS and what to look for
Cheyne Stokes Respiration looks like this and you have to zoom in much closer than you have to see it.
Yours isn't going to be CSR. Now there might be a little bit of waxing and waning of the air flow but it's not going to be CSR.
CSR is a type of periodic breathing and PB is simply waxing and waning of the air flow. CSR is NOT the only kind of PB.
You need to zoom in so that you are seeing maybe a 2 or 3 minute segment to really evaluate the breaths.

Now what you might look at while zoomed in that close would be each individual breath and look for flow limitations.
Some people think that FLs might be a factor in UARs. It's been discussed here a bit. It's really the only data that the machine can give that might (stress might) be of help and that's a big if. Otherwise UARS is not something that the machine was ever designed to auto adjust for and nothing shown is all that helpful. Remember cpap/apap was mainly designed for OSA. It was found later that cpap seems to help UARS and since it's the only thing....that's what gets prescribed.
Are you having any nasal congestion at all? If not then your FL graph is fairly active and if we can't blame it on nasal congestion then what is shown there might be a potential culprit in your insomnia issues. It's a maybe. The for her auto mode tends to make mountains out of mole hills when it comes to Flow Limitations. I know the for Her mode sort of insinuates that it might be a UARS treatment thing but in reality it was never designed for that.
We have had some documented UARS patients here and they haven't done well with just letting the machine try to find optimal pressures with the auto adjusting modes because remember the things the auto adjusting algorithms will try to prevent are related to OSA and not the subtle changes in air flow that go along with UARS. Most of the time UARS people need a higher baseline pressure than the machine will want to give in auto mode.
Most of the time UARS people have to rely on subjective feelings since the data from the machine or how it responds isn't all that helpful.
Now those increased FLs shown on your report...the machine is designed to fight those with more pressure which is why you see the pressure lines go up and down. It's responding to the FLs it senses. If you are having much nasal congestion it doesn't know if the reduction is in the nose or the airway but if the FLs are in the nose more pressure won't fix it.
You might try adding EPR into the mix along with a higher minimum pressure and see if your FLs reduce and then see if your sleep quality improves. I can't promise that it will because we really don't know for sure what is causing your insomnia. There is a miles long list of insomnia causes and airway issues is but one of many in that miles long list. cpap/apap only fixes airway problems though...only if the insomnia is caused by airway issues can we hope for cpap to help the poor sleep quality issues.
I suggest a little experiment with maybe changing the minimum to 7 cm and add in EPR full time and set to 3 and give it a couple of weeks and see if it helps and what the FL graph looks like.....assuming you don't have nasal congestion going on.

Yours isn't going to be CSR. Now there might be a little bit of waxing and waning of the air flow but it's not going to be CSR.
CSR is a type of periodic breathing and PB is simply waxing and waning of the air flow. CSR is NOT the only kind of PB.
You need to zoom in so that you are seeing maybe a 2 or 3 minute segment to really evaluate the breaths.

Now what you might look at while zoomed in that close would be each individual breath and look for flow limitations.
Some people think that FLs might be a factor in UARs. It's been discussed here a bit. It's really the only data that the machine can give that might (stress might) be of help and that's a big if. Otherwise UARS is not something that the machine was ever designed to auto adjust for and nothing shown is all that helpful. Remember cpap/apap was mainly designed for OSA. It was found later that cpap seems to help UARS and since it's the only thing....that's what gets prescribed.
Are you having any nasal congestion at all? If not then your FL graph is fairly active and if we can't blame it on nasal congestion then what is shown there might be a potential culprit in your insomnia issues. It's a maybe. The for her auto mode tends to make mountains out of mole hills when it comes to Flow Limitations. I know the for Her mode sort of insinuates that it might be a UARS treatment thing but in reality it was never designed for that.
We have had some documented UARS patients here and they haven't done well with just letting the machine try to find optimal pressures with the auto adjusting modes because remember the things the auto adjusting algorithms will try to prevent are related to OSA and not the subtle changes in air flow that go along with UARS. Most of the time UARS people need a higher baseline pressure than the machine will want to give in auto mode.
Most of the time UARS people have to rely on subjective feelings since the data from the machine or how it responds isn't all that helpful.
Now those increased FLs shown on your report...the machine is designed to fight those with more pressure which is why you see the pressure lines go up and down. It's responding to the FLs it senses. If you are having much nasal congestion it doesn't know if the reduction is in the nose or the airway but if the FLs are in the nose more pressure won't fix it.
You might try adding EPR into the mix along with a higher minimum pressure and see if your FLs reduce and then see if your sleep quality improves. I can't promise that it will because we really don't know for sure what is causing your insomnia. There is a miles long list of insomnia causes and airway issues is but one of many in that miles long list. cpap/apap only fixes airway problems though...only if the insomnia is caused by airway issues can we hope for cpap to help the poor sleep quality issues.
I suggest a little experiment with maybe changing the minimum to 7 cm and add in EPR full time and set to 3 and give it a couple of weeks and see if it helps and what the FL graph looks like.....assuming you don't have nasal congestion going on.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/ |
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.
Re: UARS and what to look for
Thank you so much taking the time and for giving me some advice
I don't have any problems with nasal congestion so I will speak with my doctor about making those changes. And hope that it will help me with all the wake ups.

I don't have any problems with nasal congestion so I will speak with my doctor about making those changes. And hope that it will help me with all the wake ups.
Re: UARS and what to look for
Moving this to a new thread - titled Periodic breathing with CAs & HAs
Last edited by Scott123 on Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: UARS and what to look for
moved to new thread
Last edited by Scott123 on Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: UARS and what to look for
moving to the new thread
Last edited by Scott123 on Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: UARS and what to look for
FYI, OSCAR can import the Dreem 2 CSV files, and display the hypnogram.
_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution |
Additional Comments: UARS; VAuto Mode, 7-15, PS 5.8 |
Re: UARS and what to look for
Scott 123....would you mind starting a topic/thread of your own.
Your problem is likely to get lost in this thread and it looks like you are likely going to need some extra work/help. Best if we keep it in a thread devoted to you.
Some of your PB does look like CSR and some looks like awake breathing false positives.
Once you have your own thread I am going to try to figure out how to get your posts here moved over to your new thread.
Couple of questions you can answer in that thread...
Do you take any medications of any kind? If so, what?
Do you think you were asleep or awake when some of that CSR looking flow rate is happening? Sleeping soundly for the most part or lots of wake ups going on?
Your problem is likely to get lost in this thread and it looks like you are likely going to need some extra work/help. Best if we keep it in a thread devoted to you.
Some of your PB does look like CSR and some looks like awake breathing false positives.
Once you have your own thread I am going to try to figure out how to get your posts here moved over to your new thread.
Couple of questions you can answer in that thread...
Do you take any medications of any kind? If so, what?
Do you think you were asleep or awake when some of that CSR looking flow rate is happening? Sleeping soundly for the most part or lots of wake ups going on?
_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/ |
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.