Even if your CPAP doesn't cause you to feel less tired, do you still keep on using it anyway?

[zonker]

We wont talk about 2020 and the pandemic pounds

(yeah, yeah...not a meme but wanted to use this pic SO badly!)

[zonker]

I just checked my CPAP for AHI when I used the Vitera mask, and I was surprised that it was .5 instead of the 5 that I originally thought. A bit puzzling, since I was not any less tired the next day.

welcome to the zoo!

unfortunately, it takes time couple with a low ahi to produce some positive results. while i started put thinking cpap would cure my sleep ills, i've learned, alas, that ain't the case. i now use it for pretty much the reasons pugsy gave. though i DO feel more rested since being "on the hose".

good luck and read carefully the advice your given. soon, you'll be getting the proper treatment and the good results!

[Robb]

I will hang in there and will keep on going. Thanks for the encouragement that you as well as others have been offering.

Answers to your questions:

How many hours of sleep are you getting? About 7 1/2. I never have trouble falling asleep. Not sure if this matters, but I take 6 mg melatonin and a supplement contaning the ingredients attached to this post.

Are those hours of sleep fragmented with very many wake ups? Yes. Regardless of using a CPAP or not, I awake about once every 30 minutes. Not sure why.

Do you have any other physical or mental health issues going on that might impact how you feel during the day or your sleep quality? Not that I am aware of.

Do you drink alcohol within 4 hours of bedtime? No, I don't drink at all.

[Pugsy]

Melatonin can cause some unwanted after effects or known side effects.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-life ... q-20057874
Next day drowsiness is common. How much of your lack of energy might be daytime drowsiness.
While melatonin works decently for some people in help to fall asleep it doesn't work so great for help in staying asleep.
They do make a sustained release version now and you might look into that and see if it helps you stay asleep.

Fragmented sleep itself no matter what the reason is going to mess with our sleep quality and end up messing with how we feel during the day. We simply don't get the normal progression into each sleep stage and the amount of sleep in each sleep stage that is needed for the restorative powers of sleep to work their magic.

Read this and I know that it is talking about alcohol and it's affect on sleep stages...substitute "anything" for alcohol.
https://www.sleepfoundation.org/article ... -and-sleep
I know you don't drink alcohol but the premise is the same when it comes to needed sleep cycles. Doesn't matter what is causing the sleep quality or wake up issues...the result is the same. I offer the article so you can understand how important good sleep quality is in your overall well being.

While sleep apnea is a common cause for poor sleep quality...it isn't the only cause.
Google sleep maintenance insomnia and start reading. The list is miles long.
I do have some personal first hand experience with this myself but in my case I know the cause...old body and lots of arthritis so lots of pain. `So the cpap doesn't do anything to help with my arthritis issues...sure wish it could. I wake often during the night tossing and turning trying to relieve the pain.

All that said...we still have to try to optimize your cpap therapy on the chance that once we get it better that it will help with your sleep quality issues. We have a known problem that needs to be fixed (lowering your AHI) that might allow you to sleep better and thus feel better in the day.. No guarantees but there's a chance.

[chunkyfrog]

I have always used cpap because it LETS ME SLEEP.
Otherwise, I was waking up many times a night, in a panic, often having very disturbing nightmares.
The added energy was a bonus, along with improved mental functioning and a calmer emotional state.

[southerndoc]

Even if you don't feel rested, continuing to use CPAP will help prevent long-term conditions associated with OSA (hypertension, diabetes, congestive heart failure, dementia, etc.). People underestimate the conditions associated with OSA.

[Dreaming1]

More than likely the apnea or hypops related to the residual 6.5 AHI is what’s waking you up and then you are aware of the Bleep being on you. Don’t make the mistake of placing the arousals on the mask when it’s not leaking. It’s a common problem to have when the apnea isn’t actually getting taken care of.

[babydinosnoreless]

We wont talk about 2020 and the pandemic pounds

(yeah, yeah...not a meme but wanted to use this pic SO badly!)

Stealing that pic.

[zonker]

We wont talk about 2020 and the pandemic pounds

(yeah, yeah...not a meme but wanted to use this pic SO badly!)

Stealing that pic.

i can't tell if that's metaphysical or existential.

[Robb]

Melatonin can cause some unwanted after effects or known side effects.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-life ... q-20057874
Next day drowsiness is common. How much of your lack of energy might be daytime drowsiness.
While melatonin works decently for some people in help to fall asleep it doesn't work so great for help in staying asleep.
They do make a sustained release version now and you might look into that and see if it helps you stay asleep.

Fragmented sleep itself no matter what the reason is going to mess with our sleep quality and end up messing with how we feel during the day. We simply don't get the normal progression into each sleep stage and the amount of sleep in each sleep stage that is needed for the restorative powers of sleep to work their magic.

Read this and I know that it is talking about alcohol and it's affect on sleep stages...substitute "anything" for alcohol.
https://www.sleepfoundation.org/article ... -and-sleep
I know you don't drink alcohol but the premise is the same when it comes to needed sleep cycles. Doesn't matter what is causing the sleep quality or wake up issues...the result is the same. I offer the article so you can understand how important good sleep quality is in your overall well being.

While sleep apnea is a common cause for poor sleep quality...it isn't the only cause.
Google sleep maintenance insomnia and start reading. The list is miles long.
I do have some personal first hand experience with this myself but in my case I know the cause...old body and lots of arthritis so lots of pain. `So the cpap doesn't do anything to help with my arthritis issues...sure wish it could. I wake often during the night tossing and turning trying to relieve the pain.

All that said...we still have to try to optimize your cpap therapy on the chance that once we get it better that it will help with your sleep quality issues. We have a known problem that needs to be fixed (lowering your AHI) that might allow you to sleep better and thus feel better in the day.. No guarantees but there's a chance.

I read both of the articles; thank you. I tried the extended-release melatonin and found I was really tired the next day. I plan to read more on the side effects, so I am glad you brought it up. As far as fragmented sleep goes, it has been happening so long, that I tend to think that it is totally normal and that it happens to most people, so reading your take on it reminds me of the importance to keep working away at reducing it.

[Robb]

More than likely the apnea or hypops related to the residual 6.5 AHI is what’s waking you up and then you are aware of the Bleep being on you. Don’t make the mistake of placing the arousals on the mask when it’s not leaking. It’s a common problem to have when the apnea isn’t actually getting taken care of.

So yesterday, I was not able to think clearly and was coming up with really off-base conclusions. Seems like a no-brainer, but I know today after getting 8 hrs of sleep (did not use CPAP), that the reason why I was tired all day yesterday was that I only had 5 hours of sleep. I guess my hopes were so unrealistically high, that I thought that since I wore the CPAP for the whole time two nights ago, that 5 hours of sleeping with a CPAP would be equivalent or better to sleeping without it for 7-8 hrs.

The reason why I only slept 5 hours two nights ago was due to a weird thing sticking to my nose and the air rushing out of it (ordered the filter cover and lighter hose yesterday). I assume that after a week or two of wearing it, that it will become second nature, and my subconscious will stop waking up due to it every 30 minutes and consequently, I will start to notice I am feeling more well-rested. what I can't help wondering is if there are no leaks from the CPAP mask and one's AHI is still above 5, is there anything that can be done to lower the AHI? Or is it that with some people, no matter how well the CPAP mask fits, their AHI is more resistant to improving? Maybe AHI scores tend to decrease the more one gets used to the CPAP mask? I realize I may be getting ahead of myself, as I am worrying about the future of the effectiveness of using a CPAP just based on one night's AHI reading and should realize it may have been a fluke. I will try my best to take this one day at a time. Thanks for everyone's patience and input!

[Pugsy]

what I can't help wondering is if there are no leaks from the CPAP mask and one's AHI is still above 5, is there anything that can be done to lower the AHI?

There are things that can maybe be done to lower the AHI depending on what that AHI is composed of....that's why we keep saying "we need the OSCAR reports to see what is going on".

[Robb]

what I can't help wondering is if there are no leaks from the CPAP mask and one's AHI is still above 5, is there anything that can be done to lower the AHI?

There are things that can maybe be done to lower the AHI depending on what that AHI is composed of....that's why we keep saying "we need the OSCAR reports to see what is going on".

Got it and will do, thanks.

[kteague]

I see you are in good hands working to insure your therapy is optimized. Hopefully time will help too. Every time through the years that I have switched masks, it feels like starting over with new sensations to get used to. Unless the mask is just not one that is workable for me, I'm usually adjusted after a couple weeks. Got some personal non-professional theories on the fragmented sleep. The brain is a creature of habit. Once you are no longer having events that wake you, the brain may need some time to relearn how to sleep. I imagine it like the pathways to sustained sleep are overgrown like weeds in the woods needing more traffic to clear the passageway again. As I was working through that, I tried to set the stage for success. Is your mattress comfortable? Pillow comfortable? I remember going to a nice hotel once and when I slid into bed I felt this deep sense of ahhhhhhh! Wasn't able to recreate that feeling, but was able to get a little closer. As you are assessing your sleep issues, one question comes to mind. Do you have any issues with restless or jumpy legs? That can cause fragmented sleep.

[Robb]

I see you are in good hands working to insure your therapy is optimized. Hopefully time will help too. Every time through the years that I have switched masks, it feels like starting over with new sensations to get used to. Unless the mask is just not one that is workable for me, I'm usually adjusted after a couple weeks. Got some personal non-professional theories on the fragmented sleep. The brain is a creature of habit. Once you are no longer having events that wake you, the brain may need some time to relearn how to sleep. I imagine it like the pathways to sustained sleep are overgrown like weeds in the woods needing more traffic to clear the passageway again. As I was working through that, I tried to set the stage for success. Is your mattress comfortable? Pillow comfortable? I remember going to a nice hotel once and when I slid into bed I felt this deep sense of ahhhhhhh! Wasn't able to recreate that feeling, but was able to get a little closer. As you are assessing your sleep issues, one question comes to mind. Do you have any issues with restless or jumpy legs? That can cause fragmented sleep.

You are right in that it would be best to give it some time for my brain to unlearn the habit of waking up so often. Regarding my mattress, I have a Tempurpedic mattress that I bought last year which has been pretty comfortable. I also bought a comfortable pillow from Purple.

As far as restless or jumpy legs, that is not an issue, but my wife and I had to undergo a "sleep divorce" as she does it quite a bit, and I am a loud snorer. Thanks for your post!