New Member - Struggling With CPAP

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
Doublearon
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:50 am

New Member - Struggling With CPAP

Post by Doublearon » Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:20 pm

Hi, this is my first post on this forum. I never thought I would be posting on an online forum, seeking help from complete strangers but I’m desperate. I’ve been feeling pretty depressed about my situation and who knows, maybe this can help. I’m going to do my best to include some background info about myself since this is my first post. I apologize in advance as this is going to be lengthy and probably disjointed. I’m not really sure where to start, so here I go…

First some background. I am a 33 year old male, with no major health issues other than sleep apnea. I don’t smoke, rarely drink and exercise 5-6 days a week. I had my first sleep test (in-home) in January of 2019 after complaining to my primary care physician that I was exhausted most of the time. The results showed I had an RDI of 15.9 which was a complete shock. I asked the doctor I was referred to if he thought it was a mistake and he assured me the tests were “pretty” accurate (w/e that means…). The end result was a prescription for CPAP and a “good luck”.

After a few weeks I picked up my CPAP machine (Resmed AirSense 10 autoset) and mask (Airfit N20 nasal) and the fun began. From the start, I knew I was going to have issues with CPAP. I’m a notoriously finicky sleeper and have trouble getting to sleep unless conditions are near perfect. I started trying to use the machine right away but was unable to fall asleep with it. I would put the mask on for a little while, maybe an hour and then take it off so I could actually go to sleep. I eventually stopped using the machine altogether after I got pretty sick with a respiratory infection. I didn’t exactly keep up with cleaning the machine so that might have been the cause.

I didn’t use the machine for multiple months. My timeline for some of these past events is kind of fuzzy as I didn’t keep records. I started trying to use the CPAP machine again sometime around April or May of 2019. I struggled with the same issue as when I first tried. I would go to bed with the mask on but was unable to fall asleep with it on. I tried to use the machine for what I think was the better part of 2 months (??). In that time period, there might have been 1 or 2 nights where I slept for 4 hours with the mask on. Eventually I gave up and started looking into other options. I ended up getting a mouth guard which seemed to help some with how I feel during the day and has solved my TMJ issues for the most part. The mouth guard may not be fully treating my apnea but it is worth using for the latter reason alone.

While I was looking into other options, the nurse I was seeing kept encouraging me to try CPAP as it’s the “gold standard” of treatment. I ended up getting a few different masks to see if that would help. I hated one of the masks and the other (Resmed Airfit P10 nasal pillows) is okay. It kind of hurts my nostrils after awhile. Anyways, I was prescribed some Ambien (sleeping pills) which helped me to fall asleep with the mask on most nights that I took them. This allowed me to get at least some data which was nice. That being said, when I got into the clinical menu and started looking at my events, 99% of them were central. And, furthermore, the events per hour were higher than my in home sleep test. Perplexed, I spoke with the lady I got the new mask from who talked to the nurse. To sum things up, they were concerned that possibly the CPAP was causing central apneas and that I should get an in-lab sleep test to get a more definitive diagnosis.

I ended up waiting a long 6 months to get my in-lab test. Honestly, the intervening period where I did not have to try to use the CPAP machine was kind of nice. I’m not sure anybody can relate to this but it was like being laid off from a job you hate. Anyways, I got the results of my in-lab test about a month ago, the results of which are shown below. I can provide more screenshots of the results if anybody wants them. All I have is the summary though, I don’t have the full study.
sleep_test_031420.png
sleep_test_031420.png (51.09 KiB) Viewed 14046 times
Even though I have had the results for almost a month, I still didn’t even start trying to use the CPAP again until last Saturday night. I actually took this week off from work to try and use the machine. I took the time off because I didn’t want to have to worry about being tired or waking up at a certain time. I still had a few of the Ambien left over so I took those and was able to sleep with the mask on for 4-6 hours. I ran out of Ambien as of last night and I was right back to where I was before. I put the mask on for about 40 minutes and then gave up. I was tired and I wanted to go to sleep.

At this point, I’m not really sure what to do. I’m going to be starting work again on Monday and I honestly don’t know if I can continue trying to get used to CPAP and work at the same time. That might sound crazy but I end up losing sleep while trying to use the CPAP which makes things even worse. Not only am I getting no perceivable benefit from the treatment; it’s making it even harder to function during the day. I cringe at the idea of having to make myself more tired to try and get used to using this machine that I hate. I’m already so tired some days that I just want to crawl up into a ball and cry. The fact that I feel like I have to choose between working and treating my medical condition is pretty crappy. It makes me feel like it is hopeless and I am screwed.

A large portion of myself wants to just say screw it and give up on using the CPAP. I’ve never seen any actual benefits from it and I’ve been this tired for years. I could probably just put up with it until I kick the bucket. Most of my family doesn’t really seem to think what I have is serious anyways. Only my fiance thinks I should treat it because she says she wants me around for as long as possible.

To those that have actually read all of this and been through a similar ordeal:
Did any of you consider just giving up on treatment? If so, what made you persevere? Was it worth it? Do you feel better now?

Should I actually be concerned about the health effects of my condition? At this point, I really just don’t want to be tired anymore. The health effects are a secondary concern.

My current CPAP settings:
Machine: Resmed airsense 10 autoset
Mask: Airfit N20 Nasal
Ramp- ON, 30 mins starting at pressure of 4
Pressure relief is ON
Mode: Autoset
Min pressure=6
Max pressure=10

Avg usage last 6 nights- 4.6hrs (yeah Ambien!)
Avg pressure- 7.3
AHI=12.8
AI=12.5
Central AI=12.3

I am working on getting OSCAR and an SD card reader so I can look at some of my data.

I apologize again for the incredibly long post. Any encouragement/advice anybody wants to give would be greatly appreciated.

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Julie
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Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Re: New Member - Struggling With CPAP

Post by Julie » Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:33 pm

Have you ever tried Melatonin instead of Ambien (which you don't want to be on long term)?

Melatonin comes in various sizes, but most prefer the-fewer-the-better because it can leave you with a slightly dopey hangover otherwise.

I only take 1 mg (if that) having cut up larger pills, tho' you may be able to get them 'as is', but may find 3 mgs may work for you.

Google Ambien side effects... then melatonin's.

Do get Oscar going asap!

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Pugsy
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Location: Missouri, USA

Re: New Member - Struggling With CPAP

Post by Pugsy » Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:41 pm

Get OSCAR up and running.

Go here and watch all the videos
http://freecpapadvice.com/sleepyhead-free-software
I know it talks about SleepyHead but OSCAR is based on SleepyHead so it looks and acts the same.

I am betting that the bulk of that 12 AHI that is central is probably awake breathing false positive flagging.
Awake breathing is highly irregular when compared to asleep breathing. The machine only measures air flow and it doesn't know if we are asleep or not. It's quite common when we have a lot of trouble sleeping with the machine that we do a lot of irregular breathing and tossing and turning or whatever....the machine calls them centrals or OAs...but if we weren't asleep when they got flagged they aren't real and they just don't count.

Is it mask comfort that keeps you awake or just the brain being in hyper drive for no special reason?

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

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zonker
Posts: 11235
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:36 pm

Re: New Member - Struggling With CPAP

Post by zonker » Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:09 pm

Doublearon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:20 pm
Hi, this is my first post on this forum.
welcome to the zoo! you have come to the right place. most of us here have had a rough road getting started. but we made it and the good news is, you can too!

you are off to a good start. please pay close heed to whatever pugsy tells you. she is one of the most knowledgeable people here. she has years of experience and a most remarkable memory.

you are in good hands.

you can do this.

good luck!
people say i'm self absorbed.
but that's enough about them.
Oscar-Win
https://www.apneaboard.com/OSCAR/OSCAR-1.5.1-Win64.exe
Oscar-Mac
https://www.apneaboard.com/OSCAR/OSCAR-1.5.1.dmg

Doublearon
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:50 am

Re: New Member - Struggling With CPAP

Post by Doublearon » Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:11 am

Julie wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:33 pm
Have you ever tried Melatonin instead of Ambien (which you don't want to be on long term)?

Melatonin comes in various sizes, but most prefer the-fewer-the-better because it can leave you with a slightly dopey hangover otherwise.

I only take 1 mg (if that) having cut up larger pills, tho' you may be able to get them 'as is', but may find 3 mgs may work for you.

Google Ambien side effects... then melatonin's.

Do get Oscar going asap!
Hi Julie,

I have tried Melatonin. I currently have some 3mg pills and took one last night to see if it would help. It does seem to make me more tired but doesn't knock me out like Ambien. But, I definitely don't want to be on Ambien long term like you said. I will try to get OSCAR up and running. Installing won't be the issue, getting an SD reader given the delivery delays might be though.

Thank you for the reply!

Doublearon
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:50 am

Re: New Member - Struggling With CPAP

Post by Doublearon » Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:26 am

Pugsy wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:41 pm
Get OSCAR up and running.

Go here and watch all the videos
http://freecpapadvice.com/sleepyhead-free-software
I know it talks about SleepyHead but OSCAR is based on SleepyHead so it looks and acts the same.

I am betting that the bulk of that 12 AHI that is central is probably awake breathing false positive flagging.
Awake breathing is highly irregular when compared to asleep breathing. The machine only measures air flow and it doesn't know if we are asleep or not. It's quite common when we have a lot of trouble sleeping with the machine that we do a lot of irregular breathing and tossing and turning or whatever....the machine calls them centrals or OAs...but if we weren't asleep when they got flagged they aren't real and they just don't count.

Is it mask comfort that keeps you awake or just the brain being in hyper drive for no special reason?
Hi Pugsy,

I plan to get OSCAR up as soon as I can. I just realized my laptop might have an SD card reader so maybe that is an option. The laptop is old and slow though so it might not work depending on the resources OSCAR needs.

I was wondering if the machine was false flagging the centrals. Would looking at the data in OSCAR provide insight into whether that is actually the case?

To be honest, I'm not exactly sure what the issue is with the mask. I'm not claustrophobic or freak out when I put it on. For instance, I can wear it just fine when I'm watching TV with no issues. I think I have issues falling asleep with it on because it forces me to sleep on my back as I can't get comfortable in any other position (stomach sleeper normally). The other issue I see is focusing on breathing against the pressure. I just can't seem to forget that it is on and go to sleep. Sorry for the rather vague answer.

Thanks for the reply!

Doublearon
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:50 am

Re: New Member - Struggling With CPAP

Post by Doublearon » Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:27 am

zonker wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:09 pm
Doublearon wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:20 pm
Hi, this is my first post on this forum.
welcome to the zoo! you have come to the right place. most of us here have had a rough road getting started. but we made it and the good news is, you can too!

you are off to a good start. please pay close heed to whatever pugsy tells you. she is one of the most knowledgeable people here. she has years of experience and a most remarkable memory.

you are in good hands.

you can do this.

good luck!
Hi Zonker,

Thank you for the warm welcome and the words of encouragement, I appreciate it.

User avatar
Miss Emerita
Posts: 3732
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:07 pm

Re: New Member - Struggling With CPAP

Post by Miss Emerita » Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:32 am

Doublearon, I think we can all understand why your feel hopeless, but truly, you can adapt to CPAP treatment, and there are abundant reasons why you should try. It's very good that you have posted to this community; as you must be realizing, you are not alone, and there are people here who can help you.

I'd like to comment one one strand in your post. You have moderate to severe sleep apnea, mainly obstructive in nature. This means that on average two or three dozen times per hour, your sleep is being disrupted. Sometimes I'm sure that means you are waking up; other times, your sleep "architecture" is being trashed. In other words, you are not able to go through the normal sleep cycles that your body and mind need, including adequate deep sleep and REM sleep.

The short term consequences you know all too well. But the long-term consequences are very serious too. Over time, you are putting yourself at higher risk of high blood pressure, diabetes, stroke, and early dementia. You will be doing your future self a huge favor by starting therapy for your apnea.

Can you say a little more about what aspect of using CPAP bothers you? Is it the way the mask feels? The pressure? Problems with hose, leaks, sleep position?

Once you can post a daily chart or two, you can get help tuning your settings. In the meantime, I would encourage you to set the machine up during the day somewhere outside your bedroom where you can read or watch TV -- something pleasant and distracting. This will help to speed up the process of getting used to all the new sensations.
Oscar software is available at https://www.sleepfiles.com/OSCAR/

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Pugsy
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Location: Missouri, USA

Re: New Member - Struggling With CPAP

Post by Pugsy » Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:59 am

Sleep in any position you want. You aren't limited to sleeping on your back and in fact that's the worse position for making OSA worse.
Don't tell me your mask won't let you sleep on your side...people can even sleep on their stomachs with full face masks . It can be done. Might need to do something different with the bed pillow but it can be done.

And yes...using OSCAR lets us look at those centrals up close and see if it looks like you were really asleep or not.
Awake stuff simply doesn't count.
Did you watch those videos yet?

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

User avatar
zonker
Posts: 11235
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:36 pm

Re: New Member - Struggling With CPAP

Post by zonker » Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:05 am

Doublearon wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:27 am


Hi Zonker,

Thank you for the warm welcome and the words of encouragement, I appreciate it.
hat-tip.gif

you mentioned in response to pugsy regarding whether a determination could be made through oscar software could be made about your centrals. yes, the experts here will be able to look at the "tea leaves" that is the oscar graph and let you know if it is real or not and even if those centrals are enough to cause any concern.

so yeah, get that laptop going and see if it has enough horsepower to run oscar!
people say i'm self absorbed.
but that's enough about them.
Oscar-Win
https://www.apneaboard.com/OSCAR/OSCAR-1.5.1-Win64.exe
Oscar-Mac
https://www.apneaboard.com/OSCAR/OSCAR-1.5.1.dmg

Doublearon
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:50 am

Re: New Member - Struggling With CPAP

Post by Doublearon » Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:01 pm

Miss Emerita wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:32 am
Doublearon, I think we can all understand why your feel hopeless, but truly, you can adapt to CPAP treatment, and there are abundant reasons why you should try. It's very good that you have posted to this community; as you must be realizing, you are not alone, and there are people here who can help you.

I'd like to comment one one strand in your post. You have moderate to severe sleep apnea, mainly obstructive in nature. This means that on average two or three dozen times per hour, your sleep is being disrupted. Sometimes I'm sure that means you are waking up; other times, your sleep "architecture" is being trashed. In other words, you are not able to go through the normal sleep cycles that your body and mind need, including adequate deep sleep and REM sleep.

The short term consequences you know all too well. But the long-term consequences are very serious too. Over time, you are putting yourself at higher risk of high blood pressure, diabetes, stroke, and early dementia. You will be doing your future self a huge favor by starting therapy for your apnea.

Can you say a little more about what aspect of using CPAP bothers you? Is it the way the mask feels? The pressure? Problems with hose, leaks, sleep position?

Once you can post a daily chart or two, you can get help tuning your settings. In the meantime, I would encourage you to set the machine up during the day somewhere outside your bedroom where you can read or watch TV -- something pleasant and distracting. This will help to speed up the process of getting used to all the new sensations.
Hi Miss Emerita,

Thank you for your response and encouragement.

It it hard for me to describe what the exact issue is with using the CPAP. I don't find the mask(s) terribly uncomfortable. I will say that I can't seem to get comfortable with the mask on when trying to sleep on my side or stomach though. This causes issues for me because I normally always sleep on my stomach. The other big issue I have is I find myself focusing on breathing when I have the mask on. This gets into my brain and its all I can think about. Its kind of like if you were to have a ticking clock somewhere in the room and you end up focusing on that and unable to think about anything other than that tick,tock,tick,tock...

Doublearon
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:50 am

Re: New Member - Struggling With CPAP

Post by Doublearon » Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:08 pm

Pugsy wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:59 am
Sleep in any position you want. You aren't limited to sleeping on your back and in fact that's the worse position for making OSA worse.
Don't tell me your mask won't let you sleep on your side...people can even sleep on their stomachs with full face masks . It can be done. Might need to do something different with the bed pillow but it can be done.

And yes...using OSCAR lets us look at those centrals up close and see if it looks like you were really asleep or not.
Awake stuff simply doesn't count.
Did you watch those videos yet?
Hi Pugsy,

I guess it would have been more accurate to say that I struggle to get comfortable with the mask while sleeping in any position other than my back. I also find that I "hear" myself breathing more when on my side/stomach.

I have not gotten a chance to look at the videos yet. I ended up getting called for work on my vacation :( . I will try to watch them later.

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Julie
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Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Re: New Member - Struggling With CPAP

Post by Julie » Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:36 pm

I sleep alone ('cept for my cat) and so can get away with this - I cut a 3" wide, 4" deep and 1' long 'trench' in my memory foam mattress starting at the head and going towards the foot, with an electric knife, and rounded top edges with scissors. I have a FF mask and when sleeping on my front with my head turned right, the mask dips into the trench diagonally or more vertically, avoiding a very sore neck in the a.m. I've also cut and fiddled with sheets to accommodate things, but have been sleeping like this for years, and so far so good. Important to mention is that my particular mask's vent holes are higher on the mask than most (which are usually at the elbow), so foam or sheet don't block holes but probably would for other masks.

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Spiff
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Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:09 am
Location: Kansas

Re: New Member - Struggling With CPAP

Post by Spiff » Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:51 pm

Doublearon,

This is first post, too.

I've had my CPAP for about 18 months. While I had no trouble sleeping with the mask on, I didn't feel that it made me any less tired. I got a lot of (indirect) help from this forum, by reading responses to others' questions. Over time, I've made some adjustments to my treatment, switched masks and tubes, etc. After months, I realized that I hadn't yawned at work, I hadn't tried to nap while driving, and I hadn't fallen asleep during my lunch break in a couple of weeks. I had a gradual improvement, one that snuck up on me.

My point is, stick with it. I don't feel knowledgeable enough to offer advice, but with the help of your medical professionals and people like those on this forum, you'll get there. You might not find a solution that makes you alert the very next morning. It might take time just to sleep through the night. Be persistent and patient; you'll find a solution.

Doublearon
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:50 am

Re: New Member - Struggling With CPAP

Post by Doublearon » Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:12 pm

Julie wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:36 pm
I sleep alone ('cept for my cat) and so can get away with this - I cut a 3" wide, 4" deep and 1' long 'trench' in my memory foam mattress starting at the head and going towards the foot, with an electric knife, and rounded top edges with scissors. I have a FF mask and when sleeping on my front with my head turned right, the mask dips into the trench diagonally or more vertically, avoiding a very sore neck in the a.m. I've also cut and fiddled with sheets to accommodate things, but have been sleeping like this for years, and so far so good. Important to mention is that my particular mask's vent holes are higher on the mask than most (which are usually at the elbow), so foam or sheet don't block holes but probably would for other masks.
Wow, that is pretty awesome. I don't know if I'm ready for that yet though...