Covid-19, CPAP cleaning regimen

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Sheriff Buford
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Re: Covid-19, CPAP cleaning regimen

Post by Sheriff Buford » Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:14 am

Lifeisabeach wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:25 am
palerider wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:06 am
Lifeisabeach wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:37 pm
Vinegar is perfectly competent at killing viruses and bacteria, so I would use that on the mask and hose over alcohol to avoid degrading the material.
Alcohol does not bother the silicone, or the plastic.
Most resources, including ResMed, say differently. Hard plastic, sure, no problem, but I wouldn't use it on soft silicone.
I thought alcohol was bad for my mask too. Pale convinced it wasn't and I have been using Purell for maybe a couple of years with no damage to my cushion.

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Lifeisabeach
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Re: Covid-19, CPAP cleaning regimen

Post by Lifeisabeach » Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:24 am

palerider wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:41 am
Lifeisabeach wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:25 am
palerider wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:06 am
Lifeisabeach wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:37 pm
Vinegar is perfectly competent at killing viruses and bacteria, so I would use that on the mask and hose over alcohol to avoid degrading the material.
Alcohol does not bother the silicone, or the plastic.
Most resources, including ResMed, say differently. Hard plastic, sure, no problem, but I wouldn't use it on soft silicone.
Most resources say that silicone is not affected by alcohol, here's two:

https://www.coleparmer.com/chemical-resistance
https://www.customadvanced.com/chemical ... &rubber=SI

Now, *LOTS* of people who don't know anything about chemical interactions say that alcohol is bad for silicone.

What *IS* bad for silicone is oil, alcohol removes oil easily.
Hmmmm. I know better not to trust every random thing people say on the internet, but I would have expected ResMed's advice at least to be more accurate. Although on a second read, they also advise against pretty much any solution, including vinegar. Their objections seem to be more over scents than damage. Good to know.

Back to the matter at hand. Colomon, ResMed's recommendations reinforce what we've all been saying about cleaning, which is this:
If you are the only person who uses your mask, you do not need to disinfect your mask. Simply follow the detailed cleaning instructions given in your mask user guide.
https://www.resmed.com/epn/en/consumer/ ... -mask.html
Last edited by Lifeisabeach on Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Covid-19, CPAP cleaning regimen

Post by Lifeisabeach » Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:43 am

palerider wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:43 am
Lifeisabeach wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:31 am
palerider wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:09 am
Lifeisabeach wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:00 pm
It's ok to use tap water, but you have to be meticulous about keeping the water chamber clean to avoid mineral deposit buildup.
Actually, cleaning it every month or two is fine, depending on how fast the mineral buildup happens. People all over the world use tap water.
I've had pink slime build up much faster than that... in about a week or so. Of course it could have been my particular water source at the time, which was store-bought distilled water actually. But when I say being "meticulous" in cleaning, I mean more meticulous than I am, because I'm horribly lax even if I know what I should be doing. The water I use now, which is purified-on-demand, has made me even more lax since I never have any residue or buildup. Ever.
"pink slime" is caused by an airborne bacteria, serratia marcescens, not from the water, and has nothing at all to do with mineral buildup.
Yeah, I realize I'm mixing up my terminology here, but you still have to clean the tub and it's by no means a good idea to wait a month if it's seen sooner. I would argue that if you see the slime, you've waited too long, at least for those who are immunocompromised. There's no good reason to put it off cleaning that long (I typically do, but I'm a slacker.... I confess!) I don't get the slime if I leave the tub clean and empty (well there's nothing in there for them to grow in or feed on), and I don't get it using the purified water I use now.

EDIT: I'm going to elaborate a little more. Early on when I was on BiPAP, I started getting sinus infections. I was using store-bought distilled water at the time and like I said, my cleaning habits were less than rigid although I didn't wait quite an entire month to clean anything, especially the tub when I saw the pink slime. When I switched to the purified-on-demand water, the sinus infections stopped. That bacteria simply can't grow in this stuff and I never see the pink slime build up now. Ever. Presumably my sinus infections were an opportunistic infection from the overgrowth of that bacteria, which ultimately is my fault for not cleaning more regularly. There's some belief that pre-bottled distilled water can become contaminated as part of the bottling process and my own limited experience seems to support that. ymmv.
Last edited by Lifeisabeach on Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Covid-19, CPAP cleaning regimen

Post by jnk... » Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:52 am

chunkyfrog wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:13 am
"Severe reactions" . . .
Would that be the cytokine storm?
I defer to WHO, from late February discussing data from China, in their broad definitions of mild, moderate, and severe:
Approximately 80% of laboratory confirmed patients have had mild to moderate disease, which includes non-pneumonia and pneumonia cases, 13.8% have severe disease (dyspnea, respiratory frequency ≥30/minute, blood oxygen saturation ≤93%, PaO2/FiO2 ratio <300, and/or lung infiltrates >50% of the lung field within 24-48 hours) and 6.1% are critical (respiratory failure, septic shock, and/or multiple organ dysfunction/failure). . . . Individuals at highest risk for severe disease and death include people aged over 60 years and those with underlying conditions such as hypertension, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, chronic respiratory disease and cancer.--https://www.who.int/docs/default-source ... nal-report
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Re: Covid-19, CPAP cleaning regimen

Post by chunkyfrog » Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:40 am

So, on the average, over 90% survivable, less if you are old, or not in good health.
Why is there so much PANIC?
You would think it was ebola by the media freak-out.

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Re: Covid-19, CPAP cleaning regimen

Post by jnk... » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:02 am

chunkyfrog wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:40 am
So, on the average, over 90% survivable, less if you are old, or not in good health.
Why is there so much PANIC?
You would think it was ebola by the media freak-out.
There is "panic" because many who are old and in bad health can DIE from exposure to a virus that can apparently be spread by casual contact with asymptomatic people, and no effective treatment is known. Therefore, extreme social-distancing safeguards may soon need to be enacted to save lives. Such disruptive measures have the potential to have lasting serious effects on economies and support systems.

People make fun of people stockpiling toilet paper, but if you fear the likelihood of being confined to your home by an official order of quarantine, you naturally want to stockpile what you will need when movement (no pun intended) is restricted.
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Re: Covid-19, CPAP cleaning regimen

Post by colomom » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:14 am

Lifeisabeach wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:00 pm
You know, I just have to ask... how exactly do you expect this extra cleaning will protect him? Will the equipment be cleaned after using it at night? If so, well then he'd have potentially been using infected equipment, so it's too late. Before going to bed? If the virus is already in the house, then how is that going to help if it's already in the air and other surfaces?

I am by no means saying you have no cause for concern or shouldn't be taking precautions, but there's so much hysteria over this virus and folks are focusing on the wrong preventative measures and being completely irrational about it all. The focus should be on shared environments and surfaces, not so much things that are uniquely his. If his equipment is contaminated, and only he uses and handles it, then he's the one contaminating it. It's really that simple.

On a somewhat more helpful note, there is data showing that using a humidifier will help prevent viral infections, so he should be using his humidifier with the CPAP. For the water, be aware of how you source it. Obviously, buying distilled water from a store where others have handled the bottles is a risk vector. It's ok to use tap water, but you have to be meticulous about keeping the water chamber clean to avoid mineral deposit buildup. Consider getting a home distiller as a long term option. I personally get my water for my humidifier from the FreshPure dispenser at stores like Whole Foods that purify the water and blast it with UV as it's dispensed into my own containers.
My son is 18 years old. He knows all the CDC recommendations to limit his chances of contracting COVID-19, but as an 18 year old he is not always self aware enough to notice the many times throughout the day that he has potential exposure. Vinegar likely will not kill Covid-19, the CDPHE reccomends to disinfect with either bleach solutions or alcohol solution with at least 70% alcohol.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qWfwjC ... eHFOM/view
My thinking is that cleaning his mask and machine buttons with alcohol wipes both before and after use is worthwhile. Before use because if my son does not do as thorough job as he should washing his hands after many possible exposures throughout his day as a college student the alcohol wipes would hopefully kill viruses he may introduce by touching the machine and mask. I am also considering cleaning after use because while much is still to be learned about COVID-19, there have been numerous cases of COVID-19 patients who are cleared and discharged after testing shows they no longer have the virus who later appear to have either been reinfected or perhaps were never fully cured because COVID-19 returns.

"Convalescing patients might not build up enough antibodies to develop immunity to the virus and are being infected again.
The virus also could be “biphasic”, meaning it lies dormant before creating new symptoms. Some cases of “reinfection” have also been attributed to testing discrepancies...
A vice director of a disease control center in Guangdong province told media last week that up to 14% of discharged patients in the province had tested positive again and had returned to hospital for observation."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN20Q1BK

I agree that some are overreacting and panicking about COVID-19, I was blown away when I went to the grocery store yesterday and was greeted by largely empty shelves because people are stockpiling and hoarding soap, hand sanitizers, cleaning products, toilet paper and canned goods. That said for those like my son who's health issues put them into a high risk category this virus could be deadly. It is certainly prudent to take all possible measures to protect my son against contracting a virus that could cause him significant harm or even death.

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Re: Covid-19, CPAP cleaning regimen

Post by chunkyfrog » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:43 am

Because of the debilitating effects of loneliness on the elderly in nursing homes,
we were previously encouraged to visit them.
Now it looks like the space between a rock and a hard place.
Perhaps prevention needs to be tailored to the individuals' susceptibility.
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Re: Covid-19, CPAP cleaning regimen

Post by Dog Slobber » Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:07 pm

If you want to reduce the chances of him picking up germs or a virus from his CPAP machine, then stop cleaning his equipment for him.

If he is the only one who handles his equipment, than the only pathogens on his equipment come from him and he's already exposed to them.

When you clean his equipment, you are leaving pathogens that he may not have been exposed to (yet).

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Re: Covid-19, CPAP cleaning regimen

Post by chunkyfrog » Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:49 pm

Dog Slobber wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:07 pm
If you want to reduce the chances of him picking up germs or a virus from his CPAP machine, then stop cleaning his equipment for him.

If he is the only one who handles his equipment, than the only pathogens on his equipment come from him and he's already exposed to them.

When you clean his equipment, you are leaving pathogens that he may not have been exposed to (yet).
Great catch!
Of couse, if he is disabled, not a choice--but if he can--he SHOULD.

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Re: Covid-19, CPAP cleaning regimen

Post by raisedfist » Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:40 pm

It sounds like you are doing everything that would be helpful. Small adjustments are all I've been interested in making. Washing my hands more often and for longer. Emptying the humidifier instead of topping it off. Washing my clothes and bedding a bit more often. I'm not interested in being a paranoid person and I do have health issues that would cause a problem should I get a virus. There are so many things out of our own control that there is just simply only so much you can do to begin with.

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Re: Covid-19, CPAP cleaning regimen

Post by palerider » Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:42 pm

Lifeisabeach wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:43 am
palerider wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:43 am
Lifeisabeach wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:31 am
palerider wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:09 am
Lifeisabeach wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:00 pm
It's ok to use tap water, but you have to be meticulous about keeping the water chamber clean to avoid mineral deposit buildup.
Actually, cleaning it every month or two is fine, depending on how fast the mineral buildup happens. People all over the world use tap water.
I've had pink slime build up much faster than that...
"pink slime" is caused by an airborne bacteria, serratia marcescens, not from the water, and has nothing at all to do with mineral buildup.
Yeah, I realize I'm mixing up my terminology here, but you still have to clean the tub and it's by no means a good idea to wait a month if it's seen sooner. I would argue that if you see the slime,
Do you see up there what YOU said, that I'm responding to?

Now you're changing the whole point.

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Re: Covid-19, CPAP cleaning regimen

Post by palerider » Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:48 pm

jnk... wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:02 am
chunkyfrog wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:40 am
So, on the average, over 90% survivable, less if you are old, or not in good health.
Why is there so much PANIC?
You would think it was ebola by the media freak-out.
There is "panic" because many who are old and in bad health can DIE from exposure to a virus that can apparently be spread by casual contact with asymptomatic people, and no effective treatment is known. Therefore, extreme social-distancing safeguards may soon need to be enacted to save lives. Such disruptive measures have the potential to have lasting serious effects on economies and support systems.

People make fun of people stockpiling toilet paper, but if you fear the likelihood of being confined to your home by an official order of quarantine, you naturally want to stockpile what you will need when movement (no pun intended) is restricted.
Oh, you mean like the *flu*, that over 18,000 people have already died from?

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Re: Covid-19, CPAP cleaning regimen

Post by jnk... » Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:03 pm

Unlike the flu, there are no vaccines or effective treatments for this virus. Perhaps in 12 to 18 months, if that fact changes, then such comparisons will be valid. At least, let's hope so. Until then, I personally consider that comparison to be grossly irresponsible. Hey, just me.
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Re: Covid-19, CPAP cleaning regimen

Post by chunkyfrog » Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:08 pm

Our best plan is to presume everyone is infected.
Avoid everyone.

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