cpap.com Return Insurance

WestResid · Post by **WestResid** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:09 pm

I ordered a couple of masks from cpap.com with return insurance.
When I returned the masks cpap.com refused the package and it was returned to me.
I tried to post a review on the cpap.com website but the refused to accept the review.
The last email in this posting is the review I posted on their website.
I am posting the email exchange. I only edited out my email address and the UPS tracking number.
While I'm sure they will honor the return insurance policy what bugs me is that they refused to publish a legitamate and honest review on their website and that makes me wonder what else they're editing off their website.
Let the buyer beware.

__________________________________________________________
Hello Roger:

No the review will not appear on the site. Instead of posting it I
decided to make sure you were taken care of.

Regards,
Adam Robison
CPAP.com
___________________________________________________________
In a message on Wed, 13 Dec 2006 15:50:28, you said...

> I posted this as a user review.
> Will it appear on your website?
___________________________________________________________
> >----- ------- Original Message ------- -----
> >From: "cpap@cpap.com"
> >To:
> >Sent: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:22:02
> >
> >Dear Roger:
> >
> >I approved the call tag after Chris verified you
> >used the return label
> >included and it was denied delivery. We are not
> >sure how your
> >delivery would have been single handedly denied.
> >We receive 100's of
> >boxes a day and only after signing and sorting for
> >storage do we
> >contact UPS when they have misdelivered a package.
> >
> >I have checked with our warehouse and the tracking
> >number for the call
> >tag;
> >
> >
> >
> >Shows your masks are on the way back. You account
> >has been noted and
> >we will honor the insurance. Please let us know if
> >you want a
> >different mask or credit, once we contact you to
> >let you know they
> >have been received.
> >
> >Thank you for coming to us with your CPAP needs.
> >If we can help
> >further, please contact us by email at
> >cpap@cpap.com or by calling us
> >toll free at 800-356-5221, or on our direct line at
> >713-351-3414. We
> >are here to help.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Adam Robison
> >Customer Service Manager, CPAP.com
> >
> >_____________________________________________
> >
> >I bought 2 masks and returned them within the 30
> >days. Eleven days
> >later UPS returned the masks back to me. CPAP.com
> >refused the package.
> >I called to find out what the deal is. CPAP.com
> >said they didn't know
> >why the package was refused. They say they'll have
> >it picked up again.
> >Meanwhile, I'm out the money they guaranteed to
> >refund and I have no
> >reason to believe they won't return the package
> >again.

Offerocker · Post by **Offerocker** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:24 pm

Roger,

I wouldn't have posted it either, as the 'complaint' seemingly was still considered an 'open issue'.

You have no proof (none stated anyway) that they DID refuse the package.

Why are you being so impatient to judge and post a complaint, when the "problem" has not been fully investigated nor resolved?

Even eBay has a method of resolving conflicts, and those sellers are virtually "unknowns" to you as a purchaser.

p.s. If there were even more than several VALID complaints such as yours, I bet there wouldn't be many people HERE to even read your post!
I won't defend cpap.com because THEY DON'T NEED DEFENDING!

Wulfman · Post by **Wulfman** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:33 pm

I agree with Offerocker.
Looks like a "non-issue" to me.
Screwy things can happen with shipping things (and especially) this time of the year.

CPAP.COM is a very honorable company and good for their word.

Den

WestResid · Post by **WestResid** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:46 pm

Did your even read my post?
They returned the package and admitted they refused it.
I did not post this as a complaint about their service.
I posted this to advise others of their policy of censoring valid criticism of their return insurance product.
I acknowledged that I am sure they will honor the return insurance.

[quote="Offerocker"]Roger,

I wouldn't have posted it either, as the 'complaint' seemingly was still considered an 'open issue'.

You have no proof (none stated anyway) that they DID refuse the package.

Why are you being so impatient to judge and post a complaint, when the "problem" has not been fully investigated nor resolved?

Even eBay has a method of resolving conflicts, and those sellers are virtually "unknowns" to you as a purchaser.

p.s. If there were even more than several VALID complaints such as yours, I bet there wouldn't be many people HERE to even read your post!
I won't defend cpap.com because THEY DON'T NEED DEFENDING!

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:27 am

I'm sure glad they didn't offer any Return Insurance on the Somnotech Soyala, I'd have wasted all that extra money

offlineon · Post by **offlineon** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:52 am

Hi WestResid,

it seems cpap.com are saying they are willing to fix the problem and I don't see them censoring this forum. Cpap.com state they accept constructive reviews, negative or positive (and the evidence of this is clear); but how constructive is a review made before they have had a chance to fix things?

Post by **forumadmin** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:50 am

Greetings WestResid,

We've accepted nearly 100 returns so far with no trouble. You are the first person to have a return insurance package bounce that I'm aware of. If you were not the first to have experienced this, we'd already know what was going on and have a quick fix in place. Since you are the first, Adam needs to determine what happened, make things right with you, and modify our system to prevent future occurances. He is in the process of doing exactly that right now.

I know you are eager for us to honor our committments. Let me assure you that we do, as many on this board can attest. If you were not familiar with our reputation and felt like you needed to "leverage" us into doing the right thing, then I can understand your actions. However, knowing what I know and what I hope you now understand of our business, I think you should reconsider your actions:

1. CPAPtalk.com is a place for helping fellow CPAP users. CPAP.com customer support is the proper venue for service related issues. If your having trouble with your mask or your CPAP machine, thats CPAPtalk.com. If UPS messes up, thats CPAP.com.

2. Take a look through our user reviews and you will quickly see that we post the good and the bad as long as the spirit of the review is to help other CPAP users. However, yours was not. It was about leveraging a response from our company on a customer service hiccup.

To recap, you are not going to get any special treatment for posting to CPAPtalk or for writing an off topic review and calling my integrity into question because I won't post it. Our customer service department is very good at treating EVERYONE well and to fixing problems promptly and properly. You are going to get that service from us because you are our customer and because that is our standard. Anyone else who calls in and has a problem can expect the same.

Last, but not least, please note that we offer mask return insurance at a time when no other company does. In fact, the return rates are so high that I suspect no other online CPAP company dares to even try accepting returns of masks. We take on this risk and an additional administrative burden because we believe strongly in giving our customers a chance to try out different masks without buring a huge hole in their wallets. So long as the burden is less than crushing, we're going to keep on doing it. I can't sell our companies committment to customers any harder than that.

Johnny

WestResid · Post by **WestResid** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:06 am

My complaint is NOT that you will not honor the return insurance.
My complaint IS that you censor valid feedback in your reviews on cpap.com.
Please do not defend yourself against accusations that haven't been made.

This is real simple.
There was a problem
I posted a review on your website reporting on the problem.
You refused to publish the review.
This obviously raises the question of what other reviews you are censoring.

To quote my original post:
"While I'm sure they will honor the return insurance policy what bugs me is that they refused to publish a legitamate and honest review on their website and that makes me wonder what else they're editing off their website."

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:52 am

WestResid wrote:My complaint IS that you censor valid feedback in your reviews on cpap.com.
<SNIP>
To quote my original post:
"While I'm sure they will honor the return insurance policy what bugs me is that they refused to publish a legitamate and honest review on their website and that makes me wonder what else they're editing off their website."

The "Feedback" is for reviews on equipment received and used.
That has not been accomplished yet.
At THAT time, you will have the oppotunity to comment on the COMPLETED transaction - at cpap.com, not here.

You have already voiced your complaint to the proper personnel at cpap.com, and it is being handled. Why complain about their fast response to your complaint to them? This is a non-issue.

Please do as suggested, and keep your comments where they belong, through the proper channels at cpap.com, which is adequately setup to help you. We don't do that here, nor do we respond to invalid complaints.

This subject should not be worth your time and efforts of obsession....in my opinion.

WestResid · Post by **WestResid** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:42 am

The "feedback" was on the return insurance service which I did use. It wasn't "accomplished" because cpap.com returned the package to me rather than refund my credit card.

I commented on the transaction here only because cpap.com censored my review on their website.

For the third time, I am not complaining about the response to my complaint. I am complaining about the censorship of my review on the cpap.com website. Try to pay attention.

Please do not tell me where to comment on cpap.com, what my time and efforts are worthy of, my alleged obsessions or what "we" do here.

If you can't make an intelligent reasoned response to a posting without resorting to personal attacks then perhaps you should admit to yourself that you have nothing to contribute.

TTW · Post by **TTW** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:10 pm

I certainly understand your indignation at censorship, in whatever form. Perhaps you could start your own sleep apnea website where everyone could publish whatever they wanted.

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:25 pm

Here is my review on the M series Auto and Humidifier, they didn't censor anything, it is all there just as I wrote it.

I would have liked to revise or append to it, that the Humidifier tank problem has since been resolved with a replacement tank promptly shipped to me by Adam Robinson, I have purchased 9 or 10 cpap machines from cpap.com over the years, I've had a couple machines die on me one, one within the first week the other near the end of the warranty, in all my dealings with cpap.com they have always taken care of me without question. I have also purchased a machine and found a better price afterward while the order was being shipped to me, I emailed them the link they sent me not only the free mask the other dealer was offering but credited my acount the difference.

Here is my review as I wrote it on cpap.com for the new M series Auto w/Cflex:

Poorly designed Humdifier October 29, 2006

[rating:2] [rating:2] (2 out of 5) by John D.

"I thought I'd wait a few weeks from receiving this machine before expressing my thoughts on it. This is NOT my first autopap, in fact I've owned several of the Classic Remstar autopaps, but was excited to see some of the new features the M series offered. Size and therapy wise the machine is great, noise level about the same as the Classic, really like the added AHI information being available from the LCD display (7 & 30 day AHI, Pressure, leak, and compliance stats). The LCD display could use a back light so you could see it. The big disappointment came with the Humidifier design. It is totally unacceptable in my opinion, way too easy to slosh the water out of the tank even when being careful not to. The opening to the tank is horizontal not vertical like the classic, makes it too easy to slosh water out. After the first puddle appeared, I've been very careful when inserting the tank not to slosh any water out, but again this morning another puddle under the machine. I've also been very careful to dry the outside of the tank with a towel before inserting the tank back into the machine. Yet nearly every morning I wake up with a puddle of water under the machine, if I remove the tank and lift up water comes out of the holes under the humidifier platform. This is totally unacceptable, but you cannot return it for a poor design. I've resorted to placing a cookie sheet under the machine and humidifier so it doesn't ruin my oak night stand until I can get a different humidifier. It is like Respironics never tested this before releasing to the public, something you shouldn't have to deal with. As it is, I go through half tank of water per night using a heat setting of 2 on the knob, so every other night I have to refill the tank. I could go nearly a week with the Classic. You can only refill the M's tank by removing it from the unit, you flip the tank up vertically to fill through 2 square holes. I have never separated or taken the tank apart, so if it leaks there it leaks from the factory. The green locking tab remains in tact as it was shipped to me. As mentioned, I've owned the classic and its humidifier for over 5 years, never once did I find any water puddle under that machine. So if it wasn't for the poorly designed humidifier, I'd give the "machine" a 5 stars, but because of the poorly designed integrated humidifier. I can only give it a poor rating of 2 stars. The machine by itself is great, very small as small as the 420E BUT with the side-by-side humidifier design it actually takes up a larger footprint than the classic did with its stacked humidifier design. If you want this machine I'd pass on the Respironics M series integrated humidifier and get a external F&P HC150 to use with it. With the Respironics humidifier I'm almost certain you will be replacing the machine prematurely due to water damage. I'll be using this one without the humidifier from now on."

Now, I live in California, when I order something from cpap.com it try and take advantage of the free shipping. That shipping is usually UPS Ground shipping. I like my UPS driver, but it is not his fault they are slow. It takes anywhere of 7-days (minimum) to 10-days for me to receive an order. I have tracked a package before it was sitting on UPS's dock in California not more than 50 miles from me and it took them 3 more days to deliver it.

Is that delivery time important? Yes, if you READ and understand the Return Insurance policy you will see it clearly states 30-days FROM the DATE the item shipped from cpap.com. That means if you live in California and it takes 10 days for the item to arrive, you now only get 20 days for Return Insurance, then if you apply common sense to that equation, it most likely is going to take 10-days for that item to be returned to cpap.com, so in essence you have 10-days to review the product and make a claim for Return Insurance. This means if you shipped it on the 10th day and that day was a Friday with a Holiday in the middle your item may never make it back to cpap.com by the allotted time frame.

So how long did you keep it? if you kept it more than 10 days you probably didn't get it back in time, 20 days of your return period was eaten up by the slowness of UPS. The only way I can see you getting the item back in a shorter time frame is by living closer to Texas or shipping it back Priority Mail, it would have gotten there in 3 days or so. When I purchase now, I request Priority Mail in the comments box because I can order on Monday and receive by Thursday the same week. Your claim should be easily determined by reviewing the two UPS tracking reports.

Why was it refused? I don't know, all I know is they have always published all my reviews as written and everyone here knows I don't hesitate to cream a manufacturer who's done a lousy job. On that same note, I also don't hesitate to applaud a manufacturer who has done a great job like Somnotech.

Here is cpap.com's Return Insurance policy

The purchase of return insurance allows you to return this item to us within 30 days of purchase for a full refund of the product's purchase price less shipping.

All CPAP Masks offered on CPAP.com are brand new in original manufacturer packaging. Nothing sold on our website has been used previously by another customer. Our policy protects your health and is prudent for companies who sell medical equipment.

Please be aware that the result of these policies is that we cannot accept returns on items that have been opened or used unless return insurance is purchased before your order is shipped. These policies are standard across online CPAP providers, but we are the only CPAP company that offers you a method of ensuring you can return your products.

Purchasing return insurance makes sense if you are trying out new masks, new sizes of your current mask or if you simply want the option of returning the mask for a refund. If you purchase this option, we will include a UPS ground return shipping label in your order. Should you wish to return your product, place it in a shipping box, affix the return label to the box and drop it off at any UPS package pickup location.

Please Note: Return insurance is available to all customers, however, return labels are only offered within the United States. If return insurance is purchased by a customer living outside the United States, all shipping costs involved are paid by the customer and the mask must be received back within the 30 day insurance time frame.

yardbird · Post by **yardbird** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:39 pm

We do a lot of shipping and receiving here where I work. We deal with the US Postal Service, UPS, DHL, FedEx, and a couple of local courier services. With all of this stuff going on, I can tell you that sometimes a couple numbers don't match and stuff get "rerouted". Goes back. Ooops. It's one thing to strive for 100% efficiency. It's quite another to actually achieve it.

Kudos to cpap.com for BEING the benchmark that they are. I wish all companies that I dealt with were as good.

This sounds like it could have been handled with a phone call and resolved quickly. Sorry. I know it's frustrating when things don't go as planned. Been there... done that... on BOTH sides of the transaction, but I think we have to keep in mind that sometimes.... MOST times.... we can do EVERYTHING THAT WE CAN..... but we can't do everything.

WestResid,
Lighten up a little. The persecution thing is overplayed these days. Looks to me like cpap.com admitted that something unusual had happened and has gone ahead and made adjustments to get it right. Also... just so ya know.... publicly posting email exchanges that are assumed to be private (yeah yeah, I know... nothing's private on the internet...) is plain old bad form.

sorry if I sound a bit grumpy today..... I AM grumpy today!

Offerocker · Post by **Offerocker** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:40 pm

yardbird wrote: sorry if I sound a bit grumpy today..... I AM grumpy today!

Yeah, ME TOO! Especially from this subject!
Some things just CAN'T be helped, no matter what.
Tomorrow's another day, eh?
..and sometimes when we try to help, we're just being suckered in to an argument?

All in all, I hope the matter is resolved to your satisfaction, original poster; you may still get to post your feelings - after the transaction is completed.

af · Post by af » Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:28 pm

WestResid: Put yourself in cpap.com's position for a second...You make a mistake which you immediately try to correct, and the customer wants to post a complaint about lousy service on your website. You have spent a lot of time and money building a business and web site. Why would you post a complaint that would put your web site in a negative light, especially if the problem was resolved? Any business owner would have done the same thing.