...question again about sanitizers

[USMCVet]

Actually not trying to argue to argue on this lol. Point is that even soclean can at least provide 2 "independent" studies proving their claims and absent legitimate studies proving otherwise then just telling me I'm wrong doesn't make it so. You usually provide better sources so I was surprised by the source you provided this time.

You have a *long history* of pointless arguing just for the sake of arguing.

If you'd READ those "independent" studies, you'd realize that they tested filter paper, not real world scenarios.

And, unless you're calling flightco a liar, (and, well, it seems you are), something I've no justification in doing, ... you're just ignoring evidence so that you can argue.

And I've got no more time for that BS.

I had a much longer response and I don't want to be accused of pointless arguing again so I'll keep it short.

Did you know that the soclean2 is registered with the FDA to disinfect medical devices? https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/ ... 9&lpcd=LRJ
Flightco also said soclean claims to use same technology as hospitals but the soclean website says it uses same process, meaning ozone, so sure it doesn't use same equipment to create ozone but that doesn't mean it doesn't.

I'm done myself with discussing this as I feel I have proven my point and I feel the FDA is more credible than some random person on the internet.

ETA:
viewtopic/t177081/Particles-in-Humidifi ... 0.html#top
Even on this post you say soclean uses harmful ozone. So you concede it uses ozone and that it is harmful, if it didn't kill germs or cells aka sanitize it wouldn't be harmful. Wow and you accuse me of pointless arguing.

[palerider]

Did you know that the soclean2 is registered with the FDA to disinfect medical devices? https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/ ... 9&lpcd=LRJ

Did you know that something *registered* with the FDA does not mean it actually *WORKS*?
Yes, that's true.

Flightco also said soclean claims to use same technology as hospitals but the soclean website says it uses same process, meaning ozone, so sure it doesn't use same equipment to create ozone but that doesn't mean it doesn't.

It's clear you're going to believe whatever you want to believe, no matter how wrong it is... and that's also something you've proven over time. You just go right ahead.

I'm done myself with discussing this as I feel I have proven my point and I feel the FDA is more credible than some random person on the internet.

says the random person on the internet.

ETA:
viewtopic/t177081/Particles-in-Humidifi ... 0.html#top
Even on this post you say soclean uses harmful ozone. So you concede it uses ozone and that it is harmful, if it didn't kill germs or cells aka sanitize it wouldn't be harmful. Wow and you accuse me of pointless arguing.

The level of ozone required to cause *lung irritation* is orders of magnitude less than that necessary to penetrate a biofilm and "sanitize" a cpap.

Ever heard of an 'ozone action day'? are you aware what levels of ozone in the atmosphere trigger those?

I didn't think so.

For those that wonder, a yellow day is 0.065 to 0.084 parts per million (ppm) https://webcam.srs.fs.fed.us/test/AQI.shtml

[K5MOW]

I’ve been on CPAP now for 13 years. In my opinion soap and water for cleaning mask hose and equipment. Drying it as quickly as possible is best. You could try the Hurricane Dryer. This is what I use to dry my mask. A product you can buy on Amazon it’s called mask bright. If you don’t want to use Dawn dishwashing soap. Mask bright is awesome. This is what I use. I personally don’t think you need equipment like the so clean.

This is just my opinion

Roger

[chunkyfrog]

Like any other government agency, the FDA can not avoid hiring people
who CAN BE BRIBED.
The FDA can not be trusted absolutely--at least not until all the scum gets cleaned out.
[[[Definitely a job for good old soap and hot water--because we KNOW it works.]]]

[Goofproof]

Like any other government agency, the FDA can not avoid hiring people
who CAN BE BRIBED.
The FDA can not be trusted absolutely--at least not until all the scum gets cleaned out.
[[[Definitely a job for good old soap and hot water--because we KNOW it works.]]]

Put a Bar of Soap on each foot, pour the hot water on the floor, and kick them dpwn the stair case. Scum all gone. Jim

[Marko2019]

Wow, man, you really have to get your 'understanding' of the facts together here.

Registering a product with the FDA is nothing more then sending in paper work. I've done it. It will take the FDA years, sometimes decades, to review and audit a submission. Unless tens of thousands of people are dying - it will not float to the top of the pile.

Clearly you don't know much about the FDA. My advice is to review the facts, through the ongoing litigation, about the misinformation disseminated by SoClean: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/14 ... clean-inc/

M

Did you know that the soclean2 is registered with the FDA to disinfect medical devices?

[babydinosnoreless]

..lol...lol...palerider..I love you!!!!!! ...you are irreverent....you are NOT pc.....but God you are always right to the point...I do love it!!!!!! ......hit us where it hursts..with the TRUTH!!!!....lol

Its refreshing in this day and age. Wish more people would quit pussy footing around and just say what they mean.

[USMCVet]

Wow, man, you really have to get your 'understanding' of the facts together here.

Registering a product with the FDA is nothing more then sending in paper work. I've done it. It will take the FDA years, sometimes decades, to review and audit a submission. Unless tens of thousands of people are dying - it will not float to the top of the pile.

Clearly you don't know much about the FDA. My advice is to review the facts, through the ongoing litigation, about the misinformation disseminated by SoClean: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/14 ... clean-inc/

M

Did you know that the soclean2 is registered with the FDA to disinfect medical devices?

Did you even read the beginning of that document? I've said that so clean sterilizes, then I was told I was wrong and provided the FDA approved listing for the soclean 2 showing its a registered medical device for sterilizing. The beginning of that lawsuit says that the soclean2 creates ozone to sterilize and that ozone is dangerous and that the soclean company has not told customers about it.
This lawsuit is basically another CPAP sterilizing company saying that soclean has not disclosed the dangers of ozone or that they use ozone in there product which is stealing market share from their company that does use a safe process (uv light).

I will make another interesting observation though.... Notice how that lawsuit against soclean by a competitor who uses UV light instead to sanitize does not claim soclean doesn't actually use ozone or that the product doesn't work??? If it didn't work don't you think that would be in their lawsuit? Instead they are not fighting the effectiveness of the device rather that there product is dangerous and those dangers aren't adequately disclosed to customers and that said disclosures would likely alter the customers purchasing decision.

So again no one has been able to provide any actual evidence at all that so clean does not sterilize.

I agree it's a waste of money, I agree it could very well damage equipment and the users themselves, BUT I do believe it likely does sterilize as claimed.

[jimbud]

Wow, man, you really have to get your 'understanding' of the facts together here.

Registering a product with the FDA is nothing more then sending in paper work. I've done it. It will take the FDA years, sometimes decades, to review and audit a submission. Unless tens of thousands of people are dying - it will not float to the top of the pile.

Clearly you don't know much about the FDA. My advice is to review the facts, through the ongoing litigation, about the misinformation disseminated by SoClean: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/14 ... clean-inc/

M

Did you know that the soclean2 is registered with the FDA to disinfect medical devices?

Did you even read the beginning of that document? I've said that so clean sterilizes, then I was told I was wrong and provided the FDA approved listing for the soclean 2 showing its a registered medical device for sterilizing. The beginning of that lawsuit says that the soclean2 creates ozone to sterilize and that ozone is dangerous and that the soclean company has not told customers about it.
This lawsuit is basically another CPAP sterilizing company saying that soclean has not disclosed the dangers of ozone or that they use ozone in there product which is stealing market share from their company that does use a safe process (uv light).

I will make another interesting observation though.... Notice how that lawsuit against soclean by a competitor who uses UV light instead to sanitize does not claim soclean doesn't actually use ozone or that the product doesn't work??? If it didn't work don't you think that would be in their lawsuit? Instead they are not fighting the effectiveness of the device rather that there product is dangerous and those dangers aren't adequately disclosed to customers and that said disclosures would likely alter the customers purchasing decision.

So again no one has been able to provide any actual evidence at all that so clean does not sterilize.

I agree it's a waste of money, I agree it could very well damage equipment and the users themselves, BUT I do believe it likely does sterilize as claimed.

So you are a good news/bad news kind of guy.

The good news is you believe it sterilizes.

The bad news is it may kill you.

What matters to you is it works.
Not to mention the Last Word.
JPB

[USMCVet]

Wow, man, you really have to get your 'understanding' of the facts together here.

Registering a product with the FDA is nothing more then sending in paper work. I've done it. It will take the FDA years, sometimes decades, to review and audit a submission. Unless tens of thousands of people are dying - it will not float to the top of the pile.

Clearly you don't know much about the FDA. My advice is to review the facts, through the ongoing litigation, about the misinformation disseminated by SoClean: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/14 ... clean-inc/

M

Did you know that the soclean2 is registered with the FDA to disinfect medical devices?

Did you even read the beginning of that document? I've said that so clean sterilizes, then I was told I was wrong and provided the FDA approved listing for the soclean 2 showing its a registered medical device for sterilizing. The beginning of that lawsuit says that the soclean2 creates ozone to sterilize and that ozone is dangerous and that the soclean company has not told customers about it.
This lawsuit is basically another CPAP sterilizing company saying that soclean has not disclosed the dangers of ozone or that they use ozone in there product which is stealing market share from their company that does use a safe process (uv light).

I will make another interesting observation though.... Notice how that lawsuit against soclean by a competitor who uses UV light instead to sanitize does not claim soclean doesn't actually use ozone or that the product doesn't work??? If it didn't work don't you think that would be in their lawsuit? Instead they are not fighting the effectiveness of the device rather that there product is dangerous and those dangers aren't adequately disclosed to customers and that said disclosures would likely alter the customers purchasing decision.

So again no one has been able to provide any actual evidence at all that so clean does not sterilize.

I agree it's a waste of money, I agree it could very well damage equipment and the users themselves, BUT I do believe it likely does sterilize as claimed.

So you are a good news/bad news kind of guy.

The good news is you believe it sterilizes.

The bad news is it may kill you.

What matters to you is it works.
Not to mention the Last Word.
JPB

I wouldn't buy soclean or use it even if it was given to me for free. There is so much hate on here regarding soclean that people get "emotional" and don't think clearly or listen to anything anyone has to say regardless of what's presented.

I've made the statement that I believe the soclean product can sterilize and was told I was wrong.
quote=palerider post_id=1323715 time=1569299916 user_id=45763]

I'm sure they work for what they say they will do which is sanitize.

You'd be wrong about that.
[/quote]

If anyone can show me any study or actual evidence of soclean not sterilizing then I will be more then happy to admit I'm wrong.
Listen I get it, soclean is evil lol but something doesn't not work just because you don't want it too.

Now here is an article that uses a persuasive argument NOT to buy these cleaners, again it doesn't say they don't work just that they probably aren't needed and provide no benefit. That is completely different then saying they don't work.
https://www.verywellhealth.com/do-you-n ... in-4171650

[TropicalDiver]

I will make another interesting observation though.... Notice how that lawsuit against soclean by a competitor who uses UV light instead to sanitize does not claim soclean doesn't actually use ozone or that the product doesn't work??? If it didn't work don't you think that would be in their lawsuit?

I do not. Attorneys in litigation have to weigh the cost vs benefits of their strategy. Proving whether the product sanitizes (assuming such a term has a legal definition and failing to meet that definition would be a consumer protection violation) would take expensive testing. The manufacturer could contest the validity of testing -- including, and especially, the study design.

As a litigant, much easier to simply show it generates ozone (as the manufacturer of the device concedes). And the two legal arguments (it generates dangerous ozone and is not labeled vs it does not sanitize) are not very congruent.

Finally, who has the financial incentive to prove that it doesn't sanitize? I have no idea whether it does or doesn't -- especially under all conditions (such as with a heavy biofilm). OTOH, I am not sure why answering the question matters so deeply to you.

[USMCVet]

I will make another interesting observation though.... Notice how that lawsuit against soclean by a competitor who uses UV light instead to sanitize does not claim soclean doesn't actually use ozone or that the product doesn't work??? If it didn't work don't you think that would be in their lawsuit?

I do not. Attorneys in litigation have to weigh the cost vs benefits of their strategy. Proving whether the product sanitizes (assuming such a term has a legal definition and failing to meet that definition would be a consumer protection violation) would take expensive testing. The manufacturer could contest the validity of testing -- including, and especially, the study design.

As a litigant, much easier to simply show it generates ozone (as the manufacturer of the device concedes). And the two legal arguments (it generates dangerous ozone and is not labeled vs it does not sanitize) are not very congruent.

Finally, who has the financial incentive to prove that it doesn't sanitize? I have no idea whether it does or doesn't -- especially under all conditions (such as with a heavy biofilm). OTOH, I am not sure why answering the question matters so deeply to you.

Very good points! Personally I feel the lawsuit is just away to try and gain more market share for lumin.

I assume most of us are also from the United States and Americans sure do love to sue people. If soclean loses this lawsuit for not disclosing the dangers and the fact it uses ozone I wonder how fast it will be before a class action lawsuit is filed.

Anyways fact remains these has been no actual evidence at all that it doesn't sanitize which is my point. Anyone can call me rediculous, or question why I care , or try to change the argument but fact remains admittedly there is a lot more circumstantial evidence that it does sterilize then that it doesn't.

Obviously there is a huge bias against soclean which is why people are still talking about this with me. I could care less other then to point out there isn't really any evidence that it doesn't work and to jump on people who want to spend their money is rediculous and if the people here can't see that then so be it but you won't silence me other then if you (not you specifically) drop it yourself.

[palerider]

but you won't silence me other then if you (not you specifically) drop it yourself.

How soon they forget and fall back to their true selves:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176566&p=1316525#p1316525

[jimbud]

you won't silence me other then if you (not you specifically) drop it yourself.

I may not get the Last Word, but I will get the longest:

pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis

I win!

JPB

[USMCVet]

you won't silence me other then if you (not you specifically) drop it yourself.

I may not get the Last Word, but I will get the longest:

pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis

I win!

JPB

Darn it you do win!

@Palerider, I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, your wrong in this case, admit it, you'll feel sooooo much better!
Seriously you guys are rediculous if you think it won't sterilize and delusional but that is your right I guess. I agree though it's a total waste of money.