BiPap St Cost $$$$$

[tsduke]

It's not about affording the bill either as I can. I'm choosing not to on principle and I like to be wise with my money. Another part is I don't want to be a part of providing my DME that kind of profit when the only thing they care about is my compliance so they get paid.

Sorry all for the ranting! I've just been absolutley hot since I got the EOB from insurance this morning.

[TropicalDiver]

It's not about affording the bill either as I can. I'm choosing not to on principle and I like to be wise with my money. Another part is I don't want to be a part of providing my DME that kind of profit when the only thing they care about is my compliance so they get paid.

Sorry all for the ranting! I've just been absolutley hot since I got the EOB from insurance this morning.

So I will provide my own rant -- please listen to what others are trying to tell you.
a) If you have a problem, it is worth being treated. And you need the appropriate equipment for treatment.
b) Don't buy a ST machine. If you have the need for a ST machine, an ASV would seem the better choice. You may well regret purchasing the ST over the ASV.*
c) Used machines are a good alternative -- and much more affordable. You also get to avoid a bunch of insurance complications -- rental periods and the likely need to fail on a ST before going to the ASV. It is no problem to use a DME for things like masks but not the machine.

Insurance is a complex calculation. You can always check with other DMEs -- and I am super surprised that allowable was equal to billed. Also remember that you have an out-of-pocket max and a deductible -- so what you ultimately end up paying might be less (or more).

* If you have only obstructive, (and I will use ResMed machines as that is my preference) then AirSense 10 AutoSet or AirSense 10 AutoSet for her would be good choices. If you needed a bit more support, or a larger pressure difference between inhale/exhale, the AirCurve 10 VAuto. But you have either complex or mixed -- so that likely means you needs something like an ASV or ST.

[tsduke]

Just not sure the cost is worth it to me unless something changes. I wake up just as much every night if not more on treatment so far and I don't feel anymore rested than before. I know exactly what my out of pocket will be given my deductable and out of pocket max situation. I'm really gonna get socked in January.

One theme I keep seeing in other threads as well as this one is not many votes for ST and that I should consider ASV. It sure doens't seem like many see a purpose for it. I can't get anything but a ST without my doctor changing my script so that's a dead issue for now.

[Goofproof]

It's not about affording the bill either as I can. I'm choosing not to on principle and I like to be wise with my money. Another part is I don't want to be a part of providing my DME that kind of profit when the only thing they care about is my compliance so they get paid.

Sorry all for the ranting! I've just been absolutley hot since I got the EOB from insurance this morning.

By all means don't spend the $4,000 dollars, save it for the Quad-By-Pass, it's only $135,000, it will make a small down payment, add another $130,000 for a De-Fib, you
might get one that works. Jim

[TropicalDiver]

Just not sure the cost is worth it to me unless something changes. I wake up just as much every night if not more on treatment so far and I don't feel anymore rested than before. I know exactly what my out of pocket will be given my deductable and out of pocket max situation. I'm really gonna get socked in January.

One theme I keep seeing in other threads as well as this one is not many votes for ST and that I should consider ASV. It sure doens't seem like many see a purpose for it. I can't get anything but a ST without my doctor changing my script so that's a dead issue for now.

I apologize in advance for being both direct and harsh: it seems like you are simply playing the victim here. $4k is too much money (even though others have pointed to used machines available for $1,750). Yet, you say that you can afford it. You don't feel rested so it doesn't seem worth it. Yet others have suggested that an ASV might better treat your apnea -- nope. You say ASV is a dead issue because you would need to (gasp) contact your doctor's office. Victim.

The reality is that poorly treated apnea can lead to all sorts of complications besides feeling tired. While I can't evaluate your particular risk factors, strokes, heart attacks, and, potentially, dementia (suggestive link -- not correlative at this point) are potential consequences. And your 02 levels were in the mid-60s. The costs of that are much, much, higher -- in dollars, in length of life, and in quality of life.

The cost of treatment ought to be weighed against the cost of not treating. I will pay a fair bit of money to (hopefully) help maintain brain function. How about you?

[tsduke]

Really?!?!? Thanks for the apologies but I see nothing wrong with being upset of $6500 charges for a device that's nohwere near that high retail. My statement below from earliier post is in the context of not giving my money to the DME my ST came from only. And how is my inability to get a machine other than a ST without a "NEW" prescription playing victim? Other than that all I said was I'm not sure the cost is worth it until I see effectiveness from treatment.

To each their own. All who want to bash on me go ahead. Every forum has to have them. In my current situation I will not shell out $4k to my current DME.


"it's not about affording the bill either as I can. I'm choosing not to on principle and I like to be wise with my money. Another part is I don't want to be a part of providing my DME that kind of profit when the only thing they care about is my compliance so they get paid."

[Goofproof]

Here is a , use that money you have, and buy one with your money, outright, and get the best value you can. Rent to own is a fools game, same as paying interest on credit buys. Jim

[tsduke]

Yea, sounds like a great idea. I have a total of 6 weeks of inexperienced pap use in my life. Does buying seem smart before knowing if I have the correct machine?

Right now the only thing I can buy outright is ST.

[Goofproof]

For most people APAP is fine, many think treatment is related to machine cost, it's not. I'd start with APAP and try to make it work best as it can. We all need a backup plan. You can always throw money at a problem, as needed. Most of life's problems are mental, that's what makes life harder than it needs be. Jim

[tsduke]

I’m not about to throw money at buying multiple machines in a crap shoot to find the right one without some intelligence guidance and a still need a doc that will order each machine unless going private sale I would assume.

Very admittedly I will say I’m clueless on what machine treats what condition, but I don’t think APAP treats complex, centrals/stopping breathing does it? Its members of this forum telling me not to buy ST but I don’t get why as nobody has really explained the rational behind that.

[TropicalDiver]

Really?!?!? Thanks for the apologies but I see nothing wrong with being upset of $6500 charges for a device that's nohwere near that high retail. My statement below from earliier post is in the context of not giving my money to the DME my ST came from only. And how is my inability to get a machine other than a ST without a "NEW" prescription playing victim? Other than that all I said was I'm not sure the cost is worth it until I see effectiveness from treatment.

To each their own. All who want to bash on me go ahead. Every forum has to have them. In my current situation I will not shell out $4k to my current DME.


"it's not about affording the bill either as I can. I'm choosing not to on principle and I like to be wise with my money. Another part is I don't want to be a part of providing my DME that kind of profit when the only thing they care about is my compliance so they get paid."

I agree the DME prices you are being charged is insane. Highway robbery. Do you agree that 02 levels dropping into the 60s is concerning -- and that the treatment is not just about feeling well rested? Would you agree that the risk of stroke and heart attack is significantly higher if you don't treat your issue? And to be clear, your comments have stated you are not sure you want to continue pursuing treatment given that you don't feel better.

Here is what my victim comment was about: You are focusing on road blocks and not on solutions. Yes, the fact the you only have the script for the ST does not make you the victim per se. What does is that you don't seem to be doing much to improve your situation beyond posting here. Have you engaged with your doc lately? Have spoken with other DMEs? Your insurance?

Whenever others here have tried to provide options, you always have a reason why not to do that.

I get that you are pissed at the DME (and at me). So, what is your plan to get better?

[TropicalDiver]

Very admittedly I will say I’m clueless on what machine treats what condition, but I don’t think APAP treats complex, centrals/stopping breathing does it? Its members of this forum telling me not to buy ST but I don’t get why as nobody has really explained the rational behind that.

You are correct about APAP.

Let me start by saying that I own a VAuto -- not an ST or AVS. Pugsy can better answer your second question.

[tsduke]

I’m looking outside this forum for answers as well. I spent the better part of the day on the phone. I talked with all 3 DME’s I’m waiting for call back from some. Insurance was basically live with it and doctor won’t change anything until in office follow up. Wants at least 6 weeks of data before changing even the smallest thing.

Is the 60% a made up O2 example. Mines never tested that low.

I guess in my head the reasons I have for not doing one thing or the other makes sense to me based on what I know or I’m confused based on mixed responses either here or my phone calls today. Like APAP vs ST vs AUTO SV. One of them seems wrong to me and my condition with what I understand.

My plan to get better right now...Nothing really...wait until doctor follow up that’s now been pushed to Monday I guess. A lot will depend on doc’s ability to convince me he has a good plan for my treatment and help me understand the plan.

[TropicalDiver]

Is the 60% a made up O2 example. Mines never tested that low.

Tiny point: I said 60s and not 60. On August 12th you posted a report which said sats ranged from 66 to 96.

[TropicalDiver]

I guess in my head the reasons I have for not doing one thing or the other makes sense to me based on what I know or I’m confused based on mixed responses either here or my phone calls today. Like APAP vs ST vs AUTO SV. One of them seems wrong to me and my condition with what I understand.

My plan to get better right now...Nothing really...wait until doctor follow up that’s now been pushed to Monday I guess. A lot will depend on doc’s ability to convince me he has a good plan for my treatment and help me understand the plan.

Your titration report already said that APAP did not sufficiently resolve the apnea. So that typically means a ST or ASV machines. Both can treat central apneas by initiating breathing. How they do that is a bit different.