Waking Up Sleepy

[Sleep2Dream]

What should I look at specifically in the Sleepyhead data to try to suss out why I'm waking up sleepy despite a decent AHI? In the interest of transparency, I confess that I'm only using the machine about 6 hours a night (out of 7.5 to 8 hours of sleep), because when I wake up around dawn, I switch my mask out for an eye mask (they aren't comfortable to use together) to keep the morning hours totally dark.

If it'll help, here's last night's data. Thanks in advance.

[chunkyfrog]

Sometimes I wake up Sleepy--sometimes he wakes me up.
But seriously, folks; waking from a sound sleep takes a bit of time.
Before cpap, my brain was so full of "wake up juice", that it was instant
bright-eyed and bushy first thing in the morning.
Later on in the day, it was "I really need a nap--Oh! Did I already start?"

[Pugsy]

How many times during the night due you think you wake up and don't turn off the machine?
We already know of 3 or 4. Why those 3 or 4?

Do you take any medications of any kind? If so, what?

Sleeping for a couple of hours without cpap is a bad habit to get into. Apnea events happen and guess what the body remembers when it wake up in the morning? It isn't the 6 hours of nice sleep apnea well controlled sleep.

[Thumper68]

How many times during the night due you think you wake up and don't turn off the machine?
We already know of 3 or 4. Why those 3 or 4?

Do you take any medications of any kind? If so, what?

Sleeping for a couple of hours without cpap is a bad habit to get into. Apnea events happen and guess what the body remembers when it wake up in the morning? It isn't the 6 hours of nice sleep apnea well controlled sleep.

What she said.

[kteague]

You are waking from a period of untreated sleep apnea. I don't think you can reasonably expect to wake up feeling good. I would recommend you spend a few weeks using the machine for all of your sleep time keeping a journal and see if your waking symptoms improve. Of course there may be other contributors to investigate, but you have this one known factor of cpap use you can act on immediately. Some of the flimsy lightweight eye masks are preferable to me. They do just as good a job keeping out the light as the bulky thick ones. A person I know was using one about 3 inches thick - don't know how they slept with it. Find a way to have the best of both worlds - dark mornings AND your cpap mask. Good luck.

[Sleep2Dream]

How many times during the night due you think you wake up and don't turn off the machine?
We already know of 3 or 4. Why those 3 or 4?

I only turn off the machine at night when I get out of bed to go to the bathroom (or to see what the cat wants, lol). Other times, I wake up because the airflow or the sound is bothering me, and I adjust the mask to see if I can improve things.

Do you take any medications of any kind? If so, what?

I think I can discount the few regular meds I take, since the data varies when the meds do not. Sometimes I take Fioricet for headache and/or Sudafed for allgery-related congestion--but again, as far as I can tell, there doesn't seem to be a correlation between worse sleep and taking those meds. If I decide I care enough, I'll start keeping a journal of these kinds of variables. In general, I go through periods (like now) when I get concerned/interested about this APAP therapy, and periods when I just use the machine without otherwise giving a shit about the details (provided my AHI stays below, say, 3).

Sleeping for a couple of hours without cpap is a bad habit to get into. Apnea events happen and guess what the body remembers when it wake up in the morning? It isn't the 6 hours of nice sleep apnea well controlled sleep.

Now and then (like when I am away for only a short time or when I decide I'm especially annoyed at being tied to a machine at night) I "treat myself" to a night without the machine. When that happens, it seems like a total crap shoot as to whether I'll wake up extra sleepy. Plus, I often feel sleepy in the morning even when (like last night) I used the machine all night. When I got the machine, I was told that I needed to use it for a minimum of 4 hours a night in order to get the benefits. Is that just something they tell us so we'll be compliant from the start, instead of just running away in fear and horror? (Which is something I totally understand. )

You are waking from a period of untreated sleep apnea. I don't think you can reasonably expect to wake up feeling good. I would recommend you spend a few weeks using the machine for all of your sleep time keeping a journal and see if your waking symptoms improve. Of course there may be other contributors to investigate, but you have this one known factor of cpap use you can act on immediately. Some of the flimsy lightweight eye masks are preferable to me. They do just as good a job keeping out the light as the bulky thick ones. A person I know was using one about 3 inches thick - don't know how they slept with it. Find a way to have the best of both worlds - dark mornings AND your cpap mask. Good luck.

I guess the journal idea is a good one. I did make sure last night to use the machine all night, and I will keep doing that for a while. I'm sleepy this morning, but it's not nearly as bad as yesterday. And I realize you're right about the eye masks. I've used the lighter ones with the machine and they worked okay, so I will try that again. Also, I've discovered that the only thing I actually love about the machine is that I can now pull the covers over my head and not feel like I'm suffocating, so there's that option, too!

[Pugsy]

When I got the machine, I was told that I needed to use it for a minimum of 4 hours a night in order to get the benefits. Is that just something they tell us so we'll be compliant from the start, instead of just running away in fear and horror? (Which is something I totally understand. )

The 4 hours is strictly so that insurance will be happy and the DME will get paid...and maybe a little to placate people but it is doing patients a disservice because it insinuates that if you use the machine for 4 hours and then sleep without it for 4 hours...you will still treating a problem fully...and you are not.

General rule...if you are sleeping you should be using the machine. I do understand the desire to just sleep without it but just remember every time you do you will have untreated apnea happen.

Sudafed will mess with sleep architecture or the normal sleep cycles we need and how much in each stage that we need.
Anything that messes with the sleep cycles messes with how we are going to feel the next day. Every time you wake up for whatever reason you are breaking the cycle and you aren't going to get the needed progression in each cycle that the body needs for the restorative powers of sleep to work their magic.

There's a real good explanation of how important the normal cycles are here
https://www.sleepfoundation.org/article ... tity-sleep
while it talks about alcohol...substitute anything for alcohol because it can be anything that disturbs our sleep.
The cats, the pee breaks, the thunder, itchy feet, back pain, whatever....if it disturbs our sleep then we aren't getting the quantity and quality that we need. We are very likely to be sleepy as a result.

You might be experiencing sleep inertia
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=91348&hilit=cpap+basics_

There's so much more to feeling the good numbers than just getting them. Heck, getting them is the easy part.

Keep a journal....and be tough about it...brutally honest
you might spot whatever it is that is making such a negative impact and thus be able to at least try to remedy things.

[Sleep2Dream]

When I got the machine, I was told that I needed to use it for a minimum of 4 hours a night in order to get the benefits. Is that just something they tell us so we'll be compliant from the start, instead of just running away in fear and horror? (Which is something I totally understand. )

The 4 hours is strictly so that insurance will be happy and the DME will get paid...and maybe a little to placate people but it is doing patients a disservice because it insinuates that if you use the machine for 4 hours and then sleep without it for 4 hours...you will still treating a problem fully...and you are not.

General rule...if you are sleeping you should be using the machine. I do understand the desire to just sleep without it but just remember every time you do you will have untreated apnea happen.

Sudafed will mess with sleep architecture or the normal sleep cycles we need and how much in each stage that we need.
Anything that messes with the sleep cycles messes with how we are going to feel the next day. Every time you wake up for whatever reason you are breaking the cycle and you aren't going to get the needed progression in each cycle that the body needs for the restorative powers of sleep to work their magic.

There's a real good explanation of how important the normal cycles are here
https://www.sleepfoundation.org/article ... tity-sleep
while it talks about alcohol...substitute anything for alcohol because it can be anything that disturbs our sleep.
The cats, the pee breaks, the thunder, itchy feet, back pain, whatever....if it disturbs our sleep then we aren't getting the quantity and quality that we need. We are very likely to be sleepy as a result.

You might be experiencing sleep inertia
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=91348&hilit=cpap+basics_

There's so much more to feeling the good numbers than just getting them. Heck, getting them is the easy part.

Keep a journal....and be tough about it...brutally honest
you might spot whatever it is that is making such a negative impact and thus be able to at least try to remedy things.

Thanks, Pugsy. I get all this. I was all ready to get pissed about what feels like fanaticism on this site, but I feel like this is a very well-presented argument. I'm still not fully convinced, in that I know that most people have their sleep disturbed by so many factors (as you list: alcohol, pee breaks, pets, physical pain, etc.), and I'm not necessarily looking to get sleep that is better than "average." If I were looking for perfect health, I'd make a lot of changes (a LOT more exercise than daily yoga, no alcohol, no sudafed, no headache meds), but I feel like I'm not interested--at this point--in perfection. I just want "normal," if such a thing exists. I've never been so tired in my life as I was in the couple of months before my apnea was diagnosed (and never before, which seemed so weird to me, especially as I fit none of the usual "criteria" for apnea), and I was grateful to not be so damned tired anymore. But, for example, I've had problems with sleepiness while driving my whole adult life, and it hasn't improved much since I started using the APAP--even when I've followed all the so-called rules. Plus, I have always hated following "rules" (never could diet, for example, and I'm just lucky, I guess, that I never really needed to: my insecurity was all in my head). So when I'm told it's "all or nothing," I rebel. I can't be the only one. There is so much variety in human beings, and I have a hard time believing that "normal" people (that is, those not diagnosed with sleep apnea) do fine on an AHI of 5 or below but that I need to achieve 0 or something for health. It's just hard to swallow. Especially as I hate (though sometimes it's love/hate) the effing machine. I'm just trying to figure things out so that they work kind of okay for me.

I appreciate all the advice from this forum--especially experienced folks like you. I just sometimes feel like there ought to be more balance somehow.

Thanks again.