CPAP Battery pack problem, and a new battery pack prospect

[RogerSC]

I have a "Super CPAP battery pack" Li-ion battery pack (model is C-222, spec'd at 222Wh) from about 7 years ago. This battery pack has 5 LED's for "state of charge" indication, 4 LED's for the level, and one LED that goes on only to indicate "low charge". This battery pack has been great while it was working, first use was 4 days on my CPAP on a trip to Glacier Park, worked perfectly there, no problem. I had the humidifier and the heated tubing turned off on it (S9 at the time). Since then, I've used the battery pack sporadically. Before the trip that I took this week, on the immediately previous trip, it charged up fine and showed a full charge at home, but didn't turn on when we were out camping. By not turned on, I mean that not even the battery readout was working, and no power coming out of the battery. I put it on the charger when we got to a place with wall outlets, and it immediately came to life, and showed full charge. So I thought that there must be something intermittent going on inside the battery pack.

Just got back from a trip today where we camped for a couple of nights. Again, I charged up the battery before the trip, it looked good. This time I tested it on the CPAP after charging before the trip, and it worked well. And it worked all the way through the first night, with the battery level indicator showing 4 LED's in the morning. Worked like a champ all that first night. The second night, the battery pack quit working after about 4 hours, and again, no output voltage, and the battery indicator didn't come on, even to indicate "low charge" at the point where it quit.

I don't think that the battery is running out of capacity to hold a charge, I think that there's something intermittent inside of it. I should add that I've been pulling it out of storage every 2-3 months and charging it to full charge, which is how the company that I bought it from told me to store it to keep it working. I'm just wondering if there's anything that I can do about the intermittent condition? I think probably not, but thought I'd ask in case anyone reading this has any experience in that area. I know better than to even consider taking it apart, or treating it like anything other than a black box.

If I need to replace this battery pack, which is most likely what I'll have to do, is anyone using this battery?

https://www.amazon.com/MAXOAK-Airsense- ... way&sr=8-3

It has a little more power than the C-222, so it might last a little longer, but I'm mostly interested in how consistently it has been working for you.

Thanks.

[Muse-Inc]

It's on my Wish list. My old Escape is slowing losing charge, meaning I need t re-charge it more often (every 2-3 months). I use an S9 and Amazon comments report up to 5 nights wo humidifier.

[CapnLoki]

I have a "Super CPAP battery pack" Li-ion battery pack (model is C-222, spec'd at 222Wh) from about 7 years ago. This battery pack has 5 LED's for "state of charge" indication, 4 LED's for the level, and one LED that goes on only to indicate "low charge". This battery pack has been great while it was working, first use was 4 days on my CPAP on a trip to Glacier Park, worked perfectly there, no problem. I had the humidifier and the heated tubing turned off on it (S9 at the time). Since then, I've used the battery pack sporadically. Before the trip that I took this week, on the immediately previous trip, it charged up fine and showed a full charge at home, but didn't turn on when we were out camping. By not turned on, I mean that not even the battery readout was working, and no power coming out of the battery. I put it on the charger when we got to a place with wall outlets, and it immediately came to life, and showed full charge. So I thought that there must be something intermittent going on inside the battery pack.

Just got back from a trip today where we camped for a couple of nights. Again, I charged up the battery before the trip, it looked good. This time I tested it on the CPAP after charging before the trip, and it worked well. And it worked all the way through the first night, with the battery level indicator showing 4 LED's in the morning. Worked like a champ all that first night. The second night, the battery pack quit working after about 4 hours, and again, no output voltage, and the battery indicator didn't come on, even to indicate "low charge" at the point where it quit.

I don't think that the battery is running out of capacity to hold a charge, I think that there's something intermittent inside of it. I should add that I've been pulling it out of storage every 2-3 months and charging it to full charge, which is how the company that I bought it from told me to store it to keep it working. I'm just wondering if there's anything that I can do about the intermittent condition? I think probably not, but thought I'd ask in case anyone reading this has any experience in that area. I know better than to even consider taking it apart, or treating it like anything other than a black box.

If I need to replace this battery pack, which is most likely what I'll have to do, is anyone using this battery?

https://www.amazon.com/MAXOAK-Airsense- ... way&sr=8-3

It has a little more power than the C-222, so it might last a little longer, but I'm mostly interested in how consistently it has been working for you.

Thanks.

You have two issues: first of all, the new Airsense uses almost twice the power of the S9. You don't mention your pressure setting, but at 10 it will use almost 100 watt-hours a night. If you still have the S9, you might use that for camping. Also, 7 years is a long time for a battery pack - one could easily believe a 30% lose of power, or worse. Also, since the batteries are wired in series one cell can easily pull down the whole set.

You don't mention how you connect the battery to the pump - hopefully you have a 12/24 volt ResMed converter.

The Maxoak seems to have a good reputation and it looks like they include DC cables for various pumps. But take their time estimates with a grain of salt - they are all anecdotal from users who are vague in their descriptions. The few that are specific imply 3.5 nights at about pressure 10. The humidifier estimates are meaningless because the ambient humidity is often high when camping, then the humidifier won't turn on.

For comparison, this has less power than the $65 AGM battery used in the setup I describe in
viewtopic/t114012/Choosing-a-Battery.html

[CapnLoki]

It's on my Wish list. My old Escape is slowing losing charge, meaning I need t re-charge it more often (every 2-3 months). I use an S9 and Amazon comments report up to 5 nights wo humidifier.

I forget which version of the Goal Zero Escape you have, but the battery is generally replaceable for $35 to $65.

[RogerSC]

You have two issues: first of all, the new Airsense uses almost twice the power of the S9. You don't mention your pressure setting, but at 10 it will use almost 100 watt-hours a night. If you still have the S9, you might use that for camping. Also, 7 years is a long time for a battery pack - one could easily believe a 30% lose of power, or worse. Also, since the batteries are wired in series one cell can easily pull down the whole set.

You don't mention how you connect the battery to the pump - hopefully you have a 12/24 volt ResMed converter.

The Maxoak seems to have a good reputation and it looks like they include DC cables for various pumps. But take their time estimates with a grain of salt - they are all anecdotal from users who are vague in their descriptions. The few that are specific imply 3.5 nights at about pressure 10. The humidifier estimates are meaningless because the ambient humidity is often high when camping, then the humidifier won't turn on.

For comparison, this has less power than the $65 AGM battery used in the setup I describe in
viewtopic/t114012/Choosing-a-Battery.html

I'm only using the AirSense at home, still using the S9 for camping and backup. In fact, I now have 2 S9's, my former home use one, and the one that I took when I traveled *smile*. Yes, I have the ResMed DC converter (12VDC -> 24VDC) for the S9. Haven't bought the specific AirSense DC/DC converter, since I don't intend to camp or travel with it. I didn't know that the AirSense used that much more battery, good to hear that.

Thanks for the reference to your other battery posting, I'll check it out since I'm currently in-between power supplies for camping, but will not be taking a battery that's failed me twice with me next time we go camping.

[Muse-Inc]

...I forget which version of the Goal Zero Escape you have, but the battery is generally replaceable for $35 to $65.

Wow, THANKS, I didn't know it was replaceable! I have Model 21003. I will followup with the Goal Zero folks (I bought it during a Roadshow at COSTCO years ago). I still might spring for the MAXOAK as it would likely give me 4-5 nights. So far never needed more than 1 night, but I there's always the potential need for more nights and the Escape would likely only give 1.5-2 nights even if replaced.

[palerider]

You have two issues: first of all, the new Airsense uses almost twice the power of the S9. You don't mention your pressure setting, but at 10 it will use almost 100 watt-hours a night.

Has anybody actually measured the power consumption, or is everybody just going on the resmed battery guide?

[CapnLoki]

You have two issues: first of all, the new Airsense uses almost twice the power of the S9. You don't mention your pressure setting, but at 10 it will use almost 100 watt-hours a night.

Has anybody actually measured the power consumption, or is everybody just going on the resmed battery guide?

Yes. ResMed has measured it! Given that they report their load to a hundredth of an amp, I'm inclined to believe them. Especially since it would be obvious to them that certain models use a lot more power than others. Also, you can be sure that I check out every usage claim to see if its consistent with the ResMed report. For instance, the MaxOak Amazon listing has several reports that don't mention the pressure or the total time, but there are three that clearly say 3.5 nights, which is consistent with the higher usage.

Its interesting that the cheaper AirStart is almost the same load as the S9 - I wonder if they just repackaged the old circuitry in the new box to make the entry level version.

BTW, I last weekend I tested my DreamStation and it was, if anything, slightly more efficient then my 560. I just got a new "watt-hour" meter so I'll test that against my old readings.

[palerider]

Has anybody actually measured the power consumption, or is everybody just going on the resmed battery guide?

Yes. ResMed has measured it!

So... No

Its interesting that the cheaper AirStart is almost the same load as the S9 - I wonder if they just repackaged the old circuitry in the new box to make the entry level version.

That is very interesting, yes, especially given Resmeds history of using the same components and just changing the programming.

[CapnLoki]

Has anybody actually measured the power consumption, or is everybody just going on the resmed battery guide?

Yes. ResMed has measured it!

So... No

Too Funny! The official published data doesn't support your fantasy so you claim its not valid!

[palerider]

Has anybody actually measured the power consumption, or is everybody just going on the resmed battery guide?

Yes. ResMed has measured it!

So... No

Too Funny! The official published data doesn't support your fantasy so you claim its not valid!

This entire forum is built on being skeptical of "official published data" and instructions... Yet, in this instance, you choose to have absolutely faith.

How amusing.

[CapnLoki]

Has anybody actually measured the power consumption, or is everybody just going on the resmed battery guide?

Yes. ResMed has measured it!

So... No

Too Funny! The official published data doesn't support your fantasy so you claim its not valid!

This entire forum is built on being skeptical of "official published data" and instructions... Yet, in this instance, you choose to have absolutely faith.

How using.

Total nonsense. We are not skeptical of data, we are skeptical on unsupported nonsense, such as yours.

[RogerSC]

Yes, it is in ResMed's interest to publish accurate power consumption data. They really have no reason to publish bogus data for this. Not to say that anyone can't or doesn't make measurement mistakes, but to assume that they're publishing data that they know is wrong seems just a little off to me.

And it's not absolute faith, we all know that we'll find out how long a battery will last by actually using it. Being able to make an estimate is helpful, though.

[Lane101]

I reviewed the ResMed Guide in-depth a while back and the numbers appear reasonable and likely very accurate based on comparison to the actual current measured on my CPAP machines (0.6 amps @ 12 volts for an old GoodKnight 420 and 0.5 amps @ 12 volts for PR SystemOne machine at 10 cm pressure without humidifiers) and what has been written by others regarding current and battery capacity usage with and without humidifiers. In addition to CapnLoki's comment on the level of accuracy to one hundredth of an amp all the relationships between the numbers for different pressure setting and use with/without humidification appear to be logical. Bottom line these are a credible set of numbers for sizing battery capacity. Even played with my pressure settings and saw similar changes in current draw from my own machines. Guide was useful to validate that my own readings were reasonable.

You can check the current draw with a DC amperage multi-meter if you have a battery pack. In my case I just temporarily pull the fuse and place the multi-meter leads in the fuse holder for a quick read. Make sure polarity is correct and that multi-meter is set to a current range above what the machine will draw or you will blow it's fuse.

Finally in today's litigious society it's unlikely that someone would try to systematically mislead consumers on statistics like this - especially in the medical device area.

[Woody]

Lithium batterys wear out much differently from other rechargeable batterys.
Leaving a lithium ion battery always at full charge makes it wear out a lot
faster so to make your lithium battery last longer don't recharge it after that
camping trip wait till the day before the next trip. Oh I know that is completely
different from how to treat other rechargeable batterys .