Cheap EEGs for sleep stage detection?

[Jay Aitchsee]

Zeo will still work, but the not meant to be replaced sensor batteries are getting pretty old now and finding one that is still functional might be difficult. See the link in my signature "New Bedside Zeo Monitor"

[NoOnesPerfect]

FitBit has a decent enough sleep stage detection system in their higher end devices. They base it on heart rate and movement.
Not perfect but decent enough. It's way better than nothing. They did a lot of sleep study with real EEG comparisons to back up their claims.

Costco has one of those Fitbit devices on sale for around $110 right now - I picked one up the other day. It shows light sleep, deep sleep, REM, restless and awake. So far, it has been fun to play with, but I doubt it is particularly useful. Not sure what I would do with the information.

For the OP - what do you hope to do with the information from the eeg if you can get it?

[Pugsy]

I picked one up the other day. It shows light sleep, deep sleep, REM, restless and awake. So far, it has been fun to play with, but I doubt it is particularly useful. Not sure what I would do with the information.

The "not sure what to do with the information" was always something I wondered about myself.
Even if 100% spot on accurate what do you do with the information?
I pretty much have my body already telling me whether or not I slept well and when I don't sleep well I usually have a pretty good idea why I didn't.

Some people need confirmation or something validated though and I supposed these devices might be useful for those people.
I did give the FitBit a trial but mainly more for the pulse recording than the sleep stage recording. At the time I was having some irregular pulse issues happening and wanted to immediately be able to see exactly what the pulse was doing without my having to manually take my pulse. The sleep stage information was just a little extra goody to look at.

When it died and failed to no longer hold a charge I didn't bother replacing it....and since it was the second FitBit device (earlier basic model) to give me problems ....I won't be buying any more FitBits.

[palerider]

The Zeo product was purchased by ResMed and killed off, if I remember correctly.

You remember wrongly.

Zeo went out of business, and Resmed bought *part* of what was left, but not all of it.

They push their own tech based on movement (an under the mattress sensor?) and sound (using your smart phone mic). I would have preferred the eeg tech myself.

No, that's not how the S+ works at all.

[NoOnesPerfect]

The Zeo product was purchased by ResMed and killed off, if I remember correctly.

You remember wrongly.

Zeo went out of business, and Resmed bought *part* of what was left, but not all of it.

They push their own tech based on movement (an under the mattress sensor?) and sound (using your smart phone mic). I would have preferred the eeg tech myself.

No, that's not how the S+ works at all.

You know I hate to disagree with you, but as I noted in my post, ResMed bought the product, not the company. I never said they bought the company. As to the sleep tracker, I also never mentioned S+. I was referring to SleepScore, which does, in fact, use a sensor and a phone app, although the sensor apparently does not go under the mattress.



https://www.sleepscore.com/sleepscore-m ... p-tracker/

[palerider]

The Zeo product was purchased by ResMed and killed off, if I remember correctly.

You remember wrongly.

Zeo went out of business, and Resmed bought *part* of what was left, but not all of it.

They push their own tech based on movement (an under the mattress sensor?) and sound (using your smart phone mic). I would have preferred the eeg tech myself.

No, that's not how the S+ works at all.

You know I hate to disagree with you, but as I noted in my post, ResMed bought the product, not the company. I never said they bought the company. As to the sleep tracker, I also never mentioned S+. I was referring to SleepScore, which does, in fact, use a sensor and a phone app, although the sensor apparently does not go under the mattress.



https://www.sleepscore.com/sleepscore-m ... p-tracker/

Note that a San Diego, California based company, ResMed purchased Zeo's intellectual property. Sadly, ResMed produces another of the cannot possibly (and doesn't) work bedside sleep monitors, the S+. It bathes the sleeper in microwave radiation and uses the Doppler-shift in reflected microwaves to detect upper body motion and respiration. Aside from bathing its user in microwaves, which seems somewhat contradictory to health-promoting, and having no idea what's going on inside the sleeper's brain, thus being more wrong than right, it is confused by anyone else who might be sharing the same bed.

Resmed bought some of the IP from zeo about determining sleep stages. that's quite different from "the product".

Please provide reference that 'sleepscore' uses zeo IP.

[NoOnesPerfect]

Resmed bought some of the IP from zeo about determining sleep stages. that's quite different from "the product".

Please provide reference that 'sleepscore' uses zeo IP.

Um .... I never said sleepscore didn’t use Zeo IP - I said it was not the eeg tech, which it obviously isn’t. Zeo was only known for their eeg product, so an other IP they may have had was not part of this discussion.

Regarding the Zeo product vs IP, I think you are picking serious nits here, since it was the eeg product being discussed, and which ResMed is not offering or supporting in any form. If they bought the IP, that would include the ability and rights to build their own version of the product.

I won’t be answering any more of your posts on this topic, since it adds nothing to the discussion and may in fact be an unnecessary distraction. Feel free to flame though.

[palerider]

Resmed bought some of the IP from zeo about determining sleep stages. that's quite different from "the product".

Please provide reference that 'sleepscore' uses zeo IP.

Um .... I never said sleepscore didn’t use Zeo IP - I said it was not the eeg tech, which it obviously isn’t. Zeo was only known for their eeg product, so an other IP they may have had was not part of this discussion.

Regarding the Zeo product vs IP, I think you are picking serious nits here, since it was the eeg product being discussed, and which ResMed is not offering or supporting in any form. If they bought the IP, that would include the ability and rights to build their own version of the product.

I won’t be answering any more of your posts on this topic, since it adds nothing to the discussion and may in fact be an unnecessary distraction. Feel free to flame though.

I'm just pointing out to other readers that your assertion in posting.php?mode=quote&f=1&p=1308792#pr1308778 is factually inaccurate.

Resmed didn't 'buy zeo and kill it off'.

No flames.

[ChicagoGranny]

FitBit

One of my granddaughters told me that FitBit will soon introduce a model that detects AFib. I wanted to upgrade my old FitBit, but I will wait until the AFib model is out.

[Goofproof]

I just bought a new watch works a little like a medical device, it keep good time, but every 30 minutes a alarm comes on and it flashes "The End is Near" on the face, on the hour it plays "Taps" Jim

Songs to help with loss, https://www.nme.com/blogs/nme-blogs/son ... death-5265 The first is really good. "Tears in Heaven"

[jnk...]

I just bought a new watch works a little like a medical device, it keep good time, but every 30 minutes a alarm comes on and it flashes "The End is Near" on the face, on the hour it plays "Taps" Jim

Songs to help with loss, https://www.nme.com/blogs/nme-blogs/son ... death-5265 The first is really good. "Tears in Heaven"

They missed the best one: Jackson Browne's "Song for Adam." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drDIDzGHoV0

David Lindley's fingers--pure golden.

(I've never gotten through that one without crying, though, so listener beware.)

Or for that matter, his "For a Dancer." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78AVc2jV4Sg

Hang in there, Jim.

[HoseCrusher]

I can add that I have compared both the Fitbit and the Oura ring. The Fitbit weighs heavily on movement during the night. The Oura ring looks at pulse rate, temperature, and heart rate variability. In my case the Oura ring is closer to "real" data but it is still off several times a week.

I have been discussing this with a sleep doctor who has borrowed my Oura ring several times. The general consensus is that none of the wearable devices are as accurate as PSG, but all give some useful indications. You basically need to sort through the "noise" and go with averages rather than an individual report.

[chunkyfrog]

The Melon EEG sounded like a winner, but apparently it never got past the funding.
Too bad--it sounded tempting. Glad I was not tempted to contribute . . . .