chinstrap headache debate update?

[yearning4zs]

There was a thread about 3-4 years back about chinstraps causing headaches. I was wondering if anyone has had this experience more recently. I have started developing pretty bad day-long headaches since using my chinstrap and I'm thinking of just only using taping tonight to try it out. When I wear the strap it feels as though I can't really relax my jaw. I have to wear it pretty tight otherwise it's just slack and provides no support. Wonder if other people have had success with going off the strap?

[Jas_williams]

There was a thread about 3-4 years back about chinstraps causing headaches. I was wondering if anyone has had this experience more recently. I have started developing pretty bad day-long headaches since using my chinstrap and I'm thinking of just only using taping tonight to try it out. When I wear the strap it feels as though I can't really relax my jaw. I have to wear it pretty tight otherwise it's just slack and provides no support. Wonder if other people have had success with going off the strap?

You could try using a Soft Cervical collar to support your jaw and reduce mouth breathing many people find the Dr Dakota anti snore pillow/pad also helps keeping the mouth shut without taping.

[Jay Aitchsee]

Chin straps are not very effective because they tend to pull the chin backward which tends to exacerbate obstructive apnea. Even if the jaw is held tightly closed against the teeth, one can still exhale through the teeth and between the lips.

Certain straps around the back of my head tend to give me a headache, but it doesn't usually last all day.

You could try the collar as suggested above, it tends to hold the jaw closed and straightens the airway. Or, you could tape or try the Scunci.

[tyrone747]

I can tape, scunci, chin strap, collar, whatever, but it doesn't stop my mouth from blowing up like a blow fish. Is it the FFM life for me?

[Jay Aitchsee]

I can tape, scunci, chin strap, collar, whatever, but it doesn't stop my mouth from blowing up like a blow fish. Is it the FFM life for me?

A FFM might be the best solution. The latest generation seems much better than they were just a few years ago. Lighter, smaller, less cumbersome. Different cushion designs which may make sealing easier.

[Pugsy]

I can tape, scunci, chin strap, collar, whatever, but it doesn't stop my mouth from blowing up like a blow fish. Is it the FFM life for me?

A full face mask won't prevent the puffer fish syndrome from happening. That happens because air entering the airway at the nose level goes down the airway and enters the oral cavity...lips are shut so the air inflates the cheeks. That happens with a full face mask too if your lips are shut with the full face mask. Using the full face mask allows you to open your lips so the cheeks can deflate when the air exits the mouth and you don't lose therapy pressure because the mouth is part of the circuit that is sealed.
So won't prevent the puffer fish syndrome from happening...just prevents potential sub optimal therapy pressure because of loss of air pressure out the mouth.

To really stop the cheeks from inflating you have to prevent the air pressure from ever entering the mouth/oral cavity in the first place.
Easier said than done for some people but it can be done.
I can open my mouth...talk...stick out my tongue and blow raspberries...open my mouth wide and a big yawn...
all with my nasal mask on and cpap running...and zero air ever enter my mouth at all. I have learned how to prevent the air from ever entering my mouth while on its downward journey from the nasal cavity to the airway below the back of the throat at mouth level.

The tongue placement can help block that back door but obviously if I can stick out my tongue...it's not just tongue placement.
It's a reflex action that happens that shuts off the back door and I can't explain how I do it. I just know I can do it and I am not alone...lots of people can do it but they can't tell you what they are doing to accomplish it.

So...a full face mask won't prevent puffer fish or chipmunk cheek syndrome from happening...but it will prevent loss of therapy pressure when you open your lips to allow equalization of the pressure in your cheeks that is causing the inflation.

[tyrone747]

No you're not alone. I can do all that stuff too. I just can't do it while I'm asleep it seems.

[Pugsy]

No you're not alone. I can do all that stuff too. I just can't do it while I'm asleep it seems.

I said easier said than done while asleep. All I can tell you is keep at it and eventually the reflex action will become a learned behavior that can happen while asleep as well as awake. Took me months and months and months to come to that point though.

[Jas_williams]

I can tape, scunci, chin strap, collar, whatever, but it doesn't stop my mouth from blowing up like a blow fish. Is it the FFM life for me?

Over time the blowing cheeks (chipmunk cheeks) will subside often the tongue behind the top teeth and a slight amount of suction Will condition the mind to keep the air pressure out of the mouth but it does take time for the conditioning I took 6 months to a year but I can withstand my ASV bowing at 25 now without a leak with just nasal pillows or the Bleep Sleep

[tyrone747]

So do you guys tape as well (or other solution)? Or does your jaw stay up on it's own?

[Pugsy]

So do you guys tape as well (or other solution)? Or does your jaw stay up on it's own?

I don't tape....or do anything special. I don't ever get the inflated cheek thing...and I rarely every get a mouth breathing leak of any significance. So what my jaw might do or not do...I really don't care as long as it doesn't disturb my sleep.

The jaw has nothing to do with causing the puffer fish/chipmunk cheek syndrome or lack of and thus doing anything with or to the jaw isn't going to resolve that particular issue.

[tyrone747]

I thought I was being so smart last night by putting a strip of tape vertically across my lips and leaving a crack on each side open to relieve the chipmunk cheeks. However I woke to some strange sound only to realize the crack in my lips was acting like some kind of a wind instrument and playing a note.

I'm not sure how to proceed. I either stick with the FFM and have the discomfort of that or try to power through with the nasal pillows and hope my body learns to keep the air out of my mouth. Retraining taking potentially 6 months to a year and having potential sleep disturbances the whole time.

[Pugsy]

I thought I was being so smart last night by putting a strip of tape vertically across my lips and leaving a crack on each side open to relieve the chipmunk cheeks. However I woke to some strange sound only to realize the crack in my lips was acting like some kind of a wind instrument and playing a note.

I'm not sure how to proceed. I either stick with the FFM and have the discomfort of that or try to power through with the nasal pillows and hope my body learns to keep the air out of my mouth. Retraining taking potentially 6 months to a year and having potential sleep disturbances the whole time.

If you didn't do anything like taping or whatever to keep the lips shut.....just how bad would the mouth opening/cheek inflating things be in terms of
1...waking you up
2...show up on the leak line as massive prolong leaks deep into large leak territory.

Sometimes you have to choose between 2 evils...which is the worst evil?

And like I said using a full face mask won't necessarily stop the annoying puffer fish cheek syndrome anyway. So dealing with a FFM that you don't really like and causes problems itself is no guarantee you won't just be either adding to your problems or swapping problems.

My primary goal has always been sleep first because without sleep first nothing else really matters.
If you don't sleep then the most perfect AHI and leak line means absolutely nothing other than a nice math score.
I do what I can to make sure I get the best sleep possible and then I worry about fixing stuff that needs to be fixing and if fixing something ends up causing just as much if not more problems for my sleep in general....then I don't try to fix it.
Sometimes compromises simply have to be made.

[Jay Aitchsee]

And like I said using a full face mask won't necessarily stop the annoying puffer fish cheek syndrome anyway. So dealing with a FFM that you don't really like and causes problems itself is no guarantee you won't just be either adding to your problems or swapping problems.

No guarantee, but I never experienced chipmunk cheeks while wearing a FFM. Plenty when trying to learn to use a nasal mask, though. Just sayin

The tongue placement can help block that back door but obviously if I can stick out my tongue...it's not just tongue placement.
It's a reflex action that happens that shuts off the back door and I can't explain how I do it. I just know I can do it and I am not alone...lots of people can do it but they can't tell you what they are doing to accomplish it.

Similar to the action of making a "K" sound.

[chunkyfrog]

. . .chinstraps causing headaches. . .

Any time a chinstrap gave me a headache, the headache was almost immediate.
I took the wretched thing off, never to wear again.
If this ever happens, alternatives exist, but the need may not be oermanent.
After several months, I stopped mouth-breathing. It was natural to stop once treated.
This phenomenom is not unusual.