SoClean question and distilled water

[Gerryk]

Pugsy I know this is a touchy subject but I have to ask. Those on here who say it doesn't work and that suckers buy a Soclean. Are you actually chemical engineers and have a background to back up what you are saying?

Second those of you who say you cant and shouldn't drink distilled water what is your background that makes you an expert to say that a Dr. or chemist doesn't know what they are talking about.

Pugsy I am asking this because it seems on so many topics this one included, people like to bash others and products but I am wondering if they have a background to make those claims. If people cant answer and be civil I will delete the post.

[Pugsy]

Most of us aren't engineers...but we had one forum member who is and I will try to find his thoughts for you about the SoClean device.
I don't have it handy at the moment. He did try the device...and returned it once he decided it couldn't do what it proclaimed to do.

I won't attack the intelligence of someone who wants to use the SoClean....it's not my job to dictate how anyone spends their money.
And I won't allow personal attacking of the people who do choose to use the device....
Now attacking the device itself....it's fair game...
So people have to be careful here who or what they are responding to or about. I am sick and tired of the personal attacks.
People can voice their opinions about the device without attacking the intelligence (or lack of) of anyone....and if they can't do that then they shouldn't be posting.

I am sick and tired of the SoClean wars....talk about the product only folks....don't attack the person personally.

Give me a minute and I will try to find the one post that I know the member says he works in the field along with my own personal thoughts about this device. I just don't feel like typing it again at the moment.

Distilled water has no minerals in it....it's common knowledge that the body needs its normal share of minerals that is commonly found in most water. If you choose to drink only water that is distilled you have to get those minerals elsewhere. I don't need a degree in anything to understand that concept. Common sense tells me that. You can drink distilled water...but you don't get minerals that your body might find useful.

[Pugsy]

https://www.verywellhealth.com/do-you-n ... in-4171650
interesting article above

Read the posts from forum member flightco
viewtopic/t157842/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1 ... 9#p1210375

[Gerryk]

I have read both articles. I do understand what the guy in the industry is saying. However I have a friend who is a chemical engineer and they both agree that ozone is good at cleaning. The post saying it didn’t work compared large scale usage in a hospital. I didn’t see where that person actually did testing to prove it didn’t work. Their is a big difference between what is needed for large scale disinfection such as in a hospital and small scale such as a SoClean. I have discussed this with a friend who is a chemical engineer with an extensive background.

[Wulfman...]

From the SoClean manuals:

https://www.soclean.com/wp-content/uplo ... l_RevH.pdf

Page 8

1. Pre-washing your PAP Equipment
Use two capfuls of the included pre-wash
with a gallon of water to wash your PAP
equipment (mask, hose, and reservoir), then
rinse thoroughly with clean water.
Note:
The SoClean 2 uses no fluids in its
operation. The pre-wash is supplied for
hand washing your PAP equipment only.
DO NOT immerse your SoClean in water.



https://www.soclean.com/wp-content/uplo ... l_revA.pdf

Page 7

1. Pre-washing Your Equipment
Use two capfuls of the included pre-wash
with a gallon of water to wash your CPAP
equipment (mask, hose, and reservoir), and
then rinse thoroughly with clean water.
Note:
The SoClean 2 Go uses no fluids in
its operation. The pre-wash is supplied for
hand washing your CPAP equipment only.


On top of that, you have to periodically replace a number of components which add to the cost of the system.
In my opinion, if you have to "pre-clean" your equipment, that sort of negates the benefits in their advertising.
Just soap and water has worked well for me for 14 years.
And I don't have a rigorous cleaning regimen either. "Less is more".


Den

.

[Pugsy]

Personally....your friend's opinion doesn't carry anymore weight with me than anyone else's opinion.

This forum is made up of cpap users with opinions about just about everything. No one here claims to be an expert...
We have formed our opinions based on whatever we have read and are comfortable basing our opinions on.
Sometimes we provide links to whatever it was that helped us base OUR OPINIONS..

You are free to form your own opinion and voice it....but no one here is an "expert" in anything nor do they profess to be.
Just because we voice our opinion doesn't mean we think we are experts in anything.

But please don't come here demanding that we post our qualifications for what we deem our personal opinions....that's not needed in a forum which is really nothing but a discussion of opinions.

You don't agree with someone's opinion....that's fine but don't go saying their opinion doesn't matter because they aren't an engineer or a doctor or anyone else with a bunch of fancy letters after their name. There are a lot of doctors that don't have the sense God gave a goose and I wouldn't let them touch a dead cat....but they still have doctor after their name....doesn't mean they speak the gospel or walk on water.

[Gerryk]

I am not demanding. I asked someone because they told me a dr was wrong and doesn’t know what they are talking about. Everyone can be mistaken or wrong at times but just because you don’t agree with someone doesn’t mean you should bash them or say they are wrong.

[Pugsy]

I am not demanding. I asked someone because they told me a dr was wrong and doesn’t know what they are talking about. Everyone can be mistaken or wrong at times but just because you don’t agree with someone doesn’t mean you should bash them or say they are wrong.

You don't seem to understand....to most of us you are demanding that we justify our opinions and prove what we say is correct.
That's exactly what it appears to be to me and I just imagine that is what it appears to be to others here as well. We disagree with something that someone told you and you want us to prove why we are right and they are wrong....that's what it seems like to me.

I am not bashing you ..... make no mistake of that. It's not a personal attack or meant to be a personal affront to your beliefs.
Personal attacks are when I call you a stupid frigging idiot for falling for anything that I don't fall for. I didn't do that at all. I didn't attack your intelligence or even your friend's intelligence.

You get OPINIONS on this forum....that's all you get...if that isn't enough to satisfy your needs then I don't know what to tell you.
You want to believe what your friend says...that's fine but I really don't give a rat's behind what he thinks. I don't know him from Adam and have zero reason to trust him. Sorry...but that's the cold hard fact of life. I have many friends who I don't necessarily agree with everything they might say or do or feel.

Hell...even if the SoClean did do everything it claims to do...so what???
I still get to have my own opinion about it and that's what you are going to get.

[realshelby]

I am not Pugsy. I do have common sense. Few here really debate whether a perfectly functioning SoClean can actually sanitize. If it actually produces Ozone, that means it can kill germs. But does it actually produce enough ozone to be completely effective at sanitizing. That is an ongoing debate.

But the biggest problem is SoCleans false advertising. They claim you put your mask in it, it turns itself on and you don't ever have to do anything else. BS! It simply cannot clean body fluids, dust, and whatever else accumulates onto and into your mask. Even there directions, linked to above, mention "pre-cleaning".

So if that statement about cleaning your equipment is false, is their statement about sanitizing also false or only partly true?

A good cleaning with soap and water......also sanitizes.

Buy one if you want one. No one here has to know.

[colomom]

My son has sleep apnea and asthma, his pulmonologist/ sleep doctor recommended we not use an ozone cleaner.

Here is a warning from the EPA about ozone:
https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality- ... r-cleaners
"How is Ozone Harmful?
The same chemical properties that allow high concentrations of ozone to react with organic material outside the body give it the ability to react with similar organic material that makes up the body, and potentially cause harmful health consequences. When inhaled, ozone can damage the lungs. Relatively low amounts can cause chest pain, coughing, shortness of breath and throat irritation. Ozone may also worsen chronic respiratory diseases such as asthma and compromise the ability of the body to fight respiratory infections."

Here is an article from sleep review magazine about ozone cleaners:
http://www.sleepreviewmag.com/2018/03/c ... -no-ozone/

Because my son has asthma we are more careful than many when it comes to cleaning his CPAP. We follow his doctors recommendations which are:
1. We use only distilled water
2. We empty the humidifier, wipe the mask, and disconnect and hang the the hose daily to allow everything to dry out
3. We change the filters often
4. We wash the hose, mask, and humidifier weekly

[Okie bipap]

I have read the procedure they followed when proving So Clean will kill germs in your XPAP system. They showed it will kill germs on a filter paper that was placed in the machine. A true test of the need and effectiveness of the machine would be to do a three step test. First, take samples from a mask and tube that has been used, but not yet cleaned. Take a second sample of the same equipment after it has been washed with the cleaning solution. Then run the "cleaning" cycle and take a third sample. Until they conduct this sort of test, many of us will question the necessity of the machine.

[Gerryk]

I am not demanding. I asked someone because they told me a dr was wrong and doesn’t know what they are talking about. Everyone can be mistaken or wrong at times but just because you don’t agree with someone doesn’t mean you should bash them or say they are wrong.

You don't seem to understand....to most of us you are demanding that we justify our opinions and prove what we say is correct.
That's exactly what it appears to be to me and I just imagine that is what it appears to be to others here as well. We disagree with something that someone told you and you want us to prove why we are right and they are wrong....that's what it seems like to me.

I am not bashing you ..... make no mistake of that. It's not a personal attack or meant to be a personal affront to your beliefs.
Personal attacks are when I call you a stupid frigging idiot for falling for anything that I don't fall for. I didn't do that at all. I didn't attack your intelligence or even your friend's intelligence.

You get OPINIONS on this forum....that's all you get...if that isn't enough to satisfy your needs then I don't know what to tell you.
You want to believe what your friend says...that's fine but I really don't give a rat's behind what he thinks. I don't know him from Adam and have zero reason to trust him. Sorry...but that's the cold hard fact of life. I have many friends who I don't necessarily agree with everything they might say or do or feel.

Hell...even if the SoClean did do everything it claims to do...so what???
I still get to have my own opinion about it and that's what you are going to get.

Pugs I am not lookin to argue but you yourself gave me links to experts in the field then when I stated what I was told, the answer was why do I need anyone to prove what they said.

I would like to see some good discussion on this but it appears everyone is against it and into bashing. It should be possible to discuss something and not say follow thin
S random link or this guy is an expert in the field go see what he said, then say I don’t care what someone who is an expert in the field told you.

I just hope that some good conversation comes from this.

[Pugsy]

I gave you links to no experts....I gave 2 links...one to an article in a magazine that I found interesting and one to what forum member flightco said was his opinion and he is the one that says he is an engineer and gave his reasons for not keeping the SoClean that he bought.
No where did I say that what I was referring to was said by who I might call an "expert".
You are the one saying the word "expert".... wasn't ever said by me.

What do you want to discuss? Lots of past discussions here where opinions can be separated from personal attacks...heck by myself even.
I never said anyone was stupid for using it...I just always explained why I didn't feel the need and I explained my own personal opinions.
Never once have I personally attacked someone for using it.
I really don't care how someone cleans their equipment or even if they clean it. Not my job to monitor that aspect of their lives.

Again....what I see is you wanting me to provide proof of why I believe like I do...and I really don't see the need.

You are a grown adult with free will and what you do with your money and your stuff is entirely your choice. Just don't expect me to pat you on the back for doing what you do.

[Goofproof]

I have read both articles. I do understand what the guy in the industry is saying. However I have a friend who is a chemical engineer and they both agree that ozone is good at cleaning. The post saying it didn’t work compared large scale usage in a hospital. I didn’t see where that person actually did testing to prove it didn’t work. Their is a big difference between what is needed for large scale disinfection such as in a hospital and small scale such as a SoClean. I have discussed this with a friend who is a chemical engineer with an extensive background.

Scale has nothing to do with it, build a room put a bus in it, run the same level of ozone as "No Clean uses into the area, the Bus will not be Cleaned. The Hospital level of Ozone is much higher, it does kill off germs, but it doesn't clean. That has to be done some other way, them use the killer level of Ozone.

Scale has nothing to do with it. It's the lever of Ozone and the time exposed to it that kills germs, but it doesn't clean anything, the dead bodies and anything else are left behind, to feed the next generation.

Washing with soap and water kills some of the germs, washes them down the drain, and removes much of the stuff they breed on, and with some soaps can help keep the germs from being as happy on your stuff. Jim

You can Lead a Horse to Water But You can't make them Drink, However many Humans Will Drink The Cool-Aid!

[Pugsy]

SoClean lost any potential points for credibility with any of their claims when I saw their ad on TV stating that the SoClean actually sanitizes the air that cpap users breathe. I nearly choked when I saw that ad. That's physically impossible to do...plain and simple.
Makes me wonder what else they want to lie about.
If I was a lawyer in the mood for a class action false advertising lawsuit ....prime territory....just that one claim.
It might temporarily sanitize the air that is in the device when in use but once it isn't in use....you get room air...totally full of whatever is in that air which incidentally is pretty much what you breathe day in and day out even without using the cpap machine.
Only exception might be minor decrease in some junk the machine filters block.