Not adjusting to CPAP, TMJD and sinus problems, seeking advice

[sleepy-programmer]

Dentist recently says when I had braces, I had 4 molars removed, which shrank my jaw and gave my mouth no room for my tongue.

THAT is complete and total nonsense, you need a new dentist!!

This is how he explained it to me: pretend this "U" is your jaw. Remove two molars, one from each side, from the bottom jaw. The "U" will become slightly smaller ("less circumference" is what he said exactly) as the remaining teeth crowd in together. I already have a large tongue, I already have a small mouth. My tongue doesn't fit between my bottom teeth at all, he showed me this with a picture. The point was this way of doing my braces was unnecessary, unhelpful, and potentially harmful.

[sleepy-programmer]

Hello

May I suggest the EnduriMed pillow. Its sold on Amazon for $60.00. The reason you might like it is because it has large cutouts on each side, bigger than any other cpap pillow I have seen. I actually sleep with my face in the cutout instead of placing my face on the edge of the pillow and have my mask hanging off the edge. I do it because I have discovered it reduces my face from being mashed in my pillow, and best of all, it helps lower my AHI for some reason. I have tried both ways such as using the pillow as it was intended however, sleeping in the cutout really does lower my events. I believe It would help reduce pressure on your jaw when sleeping on your sides as I have TMJ and my jaw does not hurt in the morning. As for the surgeries some of them sound beneficial however I have heard from many sources including my ENT doctor that the Uvuloplasty has a low success rate and could cause choking with food and feeling like you have something caught in you're throat as well as compromising the immune system. A dentist suggested the Uvuloplasty because of a extra long uvula but after hearing so many negative stories and the ETN advice I decided against it as once its done, there's no turning back. I did have my septum fixed and that did help. I wish you luck

Thanks for the pillow recommendation! Just ordered it.

I've heard the same about Uvuloplasty from my ENT. But I'd like the septum fixed, turbinates reduced, and she can insert something I forget the name of that's like having a permanent Breathe Right strip on.

[jpop]

Hey SP,

Just looking over this thread and had a longer note that I inadvertently sent into the ethers.

I suffer from some nasal issues which cause both my headaches and some congestion. What I was able to find was that I didn't cope well with anything that went over the bridge of my nose. I would literally feel like I was suffocating in a matter of minutes. I am currently trying to hone in on some nasal pillow type masks and thus far the best results have come from a nasal gel pillow. I'm guessing that this works because it lifts the tip of my nose slightly opening up the nasal turbinates and valves. I can feel a huge difference in breathing just by using my finger to lift up the tip of my nose an 1/8th".

Hope that provides some help.

[sleepy-programmer]

Weird sleep last night. I just got these WoodyKnows Anti-Snoring Advanced Nasal Dilators: (EDIT: Removed the link, it's from Amazon, can put it back in if allowed. Unsure so took the link out for now)

What I was able to find was that I didn't cope well with anything that went over the bridge of my nose.

I suspect I'm similar. Just lightly pinching the bridge of my nose makes me feel like I have little room to breathe out of. Wearing this nasal dilator with my mask, I think the mask couldn't pinch the bridge of my nose in because this device was in the way. Sinuses seemed quite happy last night. What pair of nasal pillows are you using now jpop?

The reason I didn't mention the less humidity option was because the OP was talking more about everything feeling dry and uncomfortable.
He didn't really complain about the usual allergy like symptoms which is what people have when the humidity is too high but I was going to mention it.... if once he could use the machine more than an hour and was still having problems then talk about it.

With the above dilator and humidity 6, heat 86, that was wonderful for my nose. However I only slept 3hrs with the mask anyway. I can't explain why. I woke up, and I remember taking the tape off I put on. I was breathing fine out of my sinuses. I just felt like I really had to take that mask off. No memory why anymore. I think I woke up on my back? It's all hazy now. Gonna repeat sleeping with the same setup tonight.

Sleep felt okay-ish but I only slept 6 hours.

[sleepy-programmer]

Screenshot (12).png (96.04 KiB) Viewed 2578 times

Not concerned but here's last night's data. I zoomed in where I recall waking up wanting to take the mask off, scratching an itch or something, then falling back asleep. It was about 1.5hrs in.

[jpop]

I suspect I'm similar. Just lightly pinching the bridge of my nose makes me feel like I have little room to breathe out of. Wearing this nasal dilator with my mask, I think the mask couldn't pinch the bridge of my nose in because this device was in the way. Sinuses seemed quite happy last night. What pair of nasal pillows are you using now jpop?

I just got the Dreamwear nasal gel pillow for the Dreamwear frame. I also had to get a different Dreamwear strap to make it all work as I was using their full face rig. I think a medium might work a bit better than the large I have despite being a big guy with a big beautiful honking nose.

Anyway, keep us posted, I'm glad you're finding things that are working.

[palerider]

Dentist recently says when I had braces, I had 4 molars removed, which shrank my jaw and gave my mouth no room for my tongue.

THAT is complete and total nonsense, you need a new dentist!!

Or... is it? https://www.apnea.today/can-orthodontic ... ould-know/

[babydinosnoreless]

Dentist recently says when I had braces, I had 4 molars removed, which shrank my jaw and gave my mouth no room for my tongue.

THAT is complete and total nonsense, you need a new dentist!!

Or... is it? https://www.apnea.today/can-orthodontic ... ould-know/

Oh wow. Interesting. Thanks for posting that link!

[palerider]

Dentist recently says when I had braces, I had 4 molars removed, which shrank my jaw and gave my mouth no room for my tongue.

THAT is complete and total nonsense, you need a new dentist!!

Or... is it? https://www.apnea.today/can-orthodontic ... ould-know/

Oh wow. Interesting. Thanks for posting that link!

Yeah, well, i didn't want to do my usual "This user has posted nothing but crap since joining the board", so I spent a couple minutes and found something that speaks to 'emerging knowledge', instead.

I must be getting soft.. :sigh:

[SDBud]

Dentist recently says when I had braces, I had 4 molars removed, which shrank my jaw and gave my mouth no room for my tongue.

THAT is complete and total nonsense, you need a new dentist!!

This is how he explained it to me: pretend this "U" is your jaw. Remove two molars, one from each side, from the bottom jaw. The "U" will become slightly smaller ("less circumference" is what he said exactly) as the remaining teeth crowd in together. I already have a large tongue, I already have a small mouth. My tongue doesn't fit between my bottom teeth at all, he showed me this with a picture. The point was this way of doing my braces was unnecessary, unhelpful, and potentially harmful.

The bone in your jaw DOES NOT change shape if teeth are removed. Again, just simply unscientific nonsense.

[SDBud]

Dentist recently says when I had braces, I had 4 molars removed, which shrank my jaw and gave my mouth no room for my tongue.

THAT is complete and total nonsense, you need a new dentist!!

Or... is it? https://www.apnea.today/can-orthodontic ... ould-know/

THAT is in reference to children, whose bones AREN'T set like adults are.

[jnk...]

I must be getting soft.. :sigh:

Frankly, this statement frightens me almost as much as climate change and the shifting of magnetic north.

The braces/jaw/tongue/osa issue has not been, uh, settled, yet, I don't think.

But my opinion (and yes of course I have one!) is that if the extractions were made in order to move front teeth back in any significant way, as in backward toward the remaining molars, it is possible that the area for the tongue may have been reduced in a way that is significant for some OSA patients with primary narrowing of the airway in the base-of-tongue area.

But I don't think anyone has yet really figured out an accepted definitive way to accurately study any of that stuff because 3D measurements inside the mouth are not easily standardized for shape, volume, distances, etc. It's hard to know exactly which dimensions to measure if you don't know which measurements/dimensions are going to matter most for the majority.

So most arguments either way, in my opinion, are mostly anecdotal, as is sadly the case with much of the involvement of dentistry/orthodontics in OSA treatment--with the possible exception of the context of the experienced, respected MMA people.

Bottom line is that people with small mouths often need braces and people with small mouths also tend to have narrow airways further in too. So statistical associations mean nothing beyond the obvious reasons for them. And it doesn't matter how we got the way we are. What matters is what to do about it from this point on.

[palerider]

Dentist recently says when I had braces, I had 4 molars removed, which shrank my jaw and gave my mouth no room for my tongue.

THAT is complete and total nonsense, you need a new dentist!!

Or... is it? https://www.apnea.today/can-orthodontic ... ould-know/

THAT is in reference to children, whose bones AREN'T set like adults are.

Perhaps you, in your zeal to call something nonsense, neglected to comprehend that sleepy programmer was younger when he was had braces and teeth extractions.

[palerider]

I must be getting soft.. :sigh:

Frankly, this statement frightens me almost as much as climate change and the shifting of magnetic north.

be afraid, be very afraid

. And it doesn't matter how we got the way we are. What matters is what to do about it from this point on.

I'd offer that it is potentially useful if it can keep parents from screwing up another generation of sleepers in the quest for pretty smiles...

Of course, there will always be moronic parents, like the ones responsible for the current measles outbreak...

[jnk...]

quest for pretty smiles...

I think my parents could tell at my birth that I would never have one of those, but I'm glad they paid for three years of braces for me during junior high anyway.

And until it is known exactly what the interplay is in order to know how to do orthodontic work better, all we can do is the best we can do with such decisions in the present. A trillion bucks wouldn't be enough to do a double-blind with control groups for this sort of thing.