New User's First Post, Sleepy in GV's therapy thread

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
Sleepy in GV
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New User's First Post, Sleepy in GV's therapy thread

Post by Sleepy in GV » Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:15 am

Hi Everyone,

I am new to CPAP therepy, about 3 months in. After two years of telling the Dr. my husband really complained about my snoring, and being a lifelong mouth breather (well since the age of about 5), I was able to convince him I might have apnea too. I also have two parents on CPAP, and I saw how life changing it was, especially for my mother. He thankfully, finally, ordered up a sleep study. My insurance insisted on the home test. I was unable to really get much sleep, an alarm would sound every time I would fall asleep telling me there was a breath sensor fault. The company said I would not need to wear it for the full three days, that they could tell there was enough data to make a diagnosis. Long story short, I was diagnosed with mild apnea (14 AHI). Due to my symptoms, mostly being very tired, my Dr ordered up a prescription. I immediately was able to find this board and start reading even before I was fitted for a mask. I was able to purchase my own machine off craigslist and within about 3 weeks of being diagnosed I was off to the races and started my therapy. I tried hard not to panic when I first saw lots of Central Apneas (CAs). I knew, thanks to reading through all the newbie must read CPAP threads, that is to be expected. I also learned how to TRY to determine whether or not those events are real or Sleep Wake Junk (SWJ). So, I faithfully read posts, started therapy, got my AHI down below 2 on most days, and started to slowly feel better. I was and still am in awe of the saints on this forum, Pugsy most especially, but others too who so faithfully share their expertise and knowledge to help others dial it in and become lifelong happy users of their CPAP machines. I am now a member of that tribe :D!

I am finally ready to share my first screenshots and am ready for expert advise. I chose three. One, my best night, I wasn't in my own bed. We were at my inlaws over the holidays and it turned out my apneas were always lower there than at home (lower altitude, by a few hundred feet, not sure if that matters). I am also posting a typical night under my original prescription 5-20 pressure. The third screenshot is a typical night post prescription adjustment that I did on my own, I went up 6-20. I was hoping this change might eliminate some snoring and get rid of the handful of obstructive apneas (OAs) I was still having. I also thought it might lower my overall high end pressure by preventing them in the first place. I guess I just thought it might help because I see that advice given alot. I figured one little tweak up wouldn't hurt anything. Since I really don't know what I am doing, I am now ready to share and get the right advice to dial in my prescription.

A few things about my therapy thus far. From the get go, I was able to wear the mask all night, not get up, and I'm getting to sleep with it. I am sensitive to the noise, I've followed all the advise for that (towel under machine, headgear cover, and I even have a pillow shoved between the machine and the edge of the bed to also try to dampen noise). I had trouble with rainout. The coverings over the headgear and raising my room temp helped. I often would get a headache, mostly late afternoon and into the evening, not severe, but I normally don't get headaches. That seems to be a pattern. Overall, I feel so much better! It wasn't immediate, but after about a month in a half I noticed I could stay up later, and I had much more energy during the day.

Why am I finally posting now? I would like help trying to adjust my prescription. Does everything look fine as is? Can I make an adjustment to my pressure? I notice I wake up usually (feels like 3:00 am ish) and the mask is at a higher pressure. I wonder if I'm waking up from an apnea event. It isn't a gradual awakening, but more of an abrupt awakening. I would love to not wake up when that happens, so hoping to try to eliminate whatever it is that is waking me. When it happens, I have a hard time falling back to sleep, it takes a while. Are my centrals real? I think some are, but I don't think it is enough to really give it a second thought (I'm basing that on what I've read here), but I really don't know enough to know for sure. My biggest question is should I change pressure? I am still mostly mouth breathing and I know that isn't ideal, I do fall asleep breathing through my nose, but I always wake up breathing through my mouth. I am also trying to always fall asleep on my side. When I am awoken, I am usually on my back.

Thank you so much! I still can't believe how much time people give here. So, thank you in advance for your time and knowledge!!

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zonker
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Re: New User's First Post, Sleepy in GV's therapy thread

Post by zonker » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:43 am

welcome to the zoo!

i just want to say WOW. that is the most impressive debut i've yet to see here! it's terrific that you've actually taken the time, since nov 3, to go through and read the information presented here. don't you know you're just supposed to barge in, ask some question then get upset when people try to help? :lol:

as you know by reading posts, i'm NOT the one to give you expert advice. but i'm sure pugsy or palerider or whomever will be along shortly to talk about your charts.

oh, one little thing i CAN add. i don't know if there is any science behind it, but i too saw my ahi go a bit lower when i moved from seattle to flagstaff, fwiw.

anyway, good luck!
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Re: New User's First Post, Sleepy in GV's therapy thread

Post by Pugsy » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:53 am

While not urgently needed, I think maybe a little increase in that minimum pressure might be worth trying.
Sometimes your snores and flow limitations are a bit ugly and that means a need for more minimum.
Now whether these are causing the 3 AM wake ups..dunno but worth trying.
It might be that you are just waking up after a REM cycle and that is normal to do. Unfortunately you are waking up and not rolling over and going back to sleep like we do most of the time after the normal REM wake ups.

Welcome to the forum.

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Sleepy in GV
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Re: New User's First Post, Sleepy in GV's therapy thread

Post by Sleepy in GV » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:46 pm

zonker wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:43 am
welcome to the zoo!

i just want to say WOW. that is the most impressive debut i've yet to see here! it's terrific that you've actually taken the time, since nov 3, to go through and read the information presented here. don't you know you're just supposed to barge in, ask some question then get upset when people try to help? :lol:
Thank you Zonker! I was worried my debut was a little long winded, but I wanted to encapsulate my experience thus far. I was also trying to anticipate any questions folks might have :D.

It is because of the forum, and all the newbie posts and First Read links at the top that got me off on what I hope is the right foot. I also wasn't in an emergency situation like some people are. I didn't want to take up time when there were more pressing needs out there.

I was also trying to avoid anyone having to repeat themselves, palerider and pugsy are always saying the same thing to first time posters, graciously of course.

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Sleepy in GV
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Re: New User's First Post, Sleepy in GV's therapy thread

Post by Sleepy in GV » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:51 pm

Pugsy wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:53 am
I think maybe a little increase in that minimum pressure might be worth trying.
Sometimes your snores and flow limitations are a bit ugly and that means a need for more minimum.
Thank you Pugsy! Will do that tonight, I'll dial it up to 7. Flow Limits and snores are something I don't really know how to interpret or read. I think I read that the flow limitations are times when our airway is compromised, like not as much air is going in or out as could be, but not to the point of an obstruction.

As far as abrupt awakenings maybe being related to REM, I think you might be right, because I feel like I was always right in the middle of a dream (I can remember it all sort of a thing).

OK, thanks again!

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Re: New User's First Post, Sleepy in GV's therapy thread

Post by Pugsy » Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:15 pm

We can dream in any sleep stage but those wee hours of the morning around 3 AM is typically when we have the most REM.
So increases the chances of someone having a post REM awakening which is normal.

Your Flow limitation graph isn't horribly horrible but it is a bit active when compared to some of the others.
Your snore graph also shows evidence of snoring
Here's an old FL graph of mine. Pretty boring.

Image

And here's a really ugly one that belonged to someone else.
ugly fl graph.JPG

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Re: New User's First Post, Sleepy in GV's therapy thread

Post by Sleepy in GV » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:50 pm

Pugsy wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:53 am
While not urgently needed, I think maybe a little increase in that minimum pressure might be worth trying.
Sometimes your snores and flow limitations are a bit ugly and that means a need for more minimum.]

Sleepy in GV starts replying here: (Can't figure out how to get my words out of the "quote" feature). :roll:
I raised my pressure to 7, I think it helped my snores, don't know about the flow limit, I still see lots of lines there. I think it increased my leaks, but I don't think it is a big deal. I only had one obstructive. I went through the centrals and I only think this one or two is real, everything else appeared not to be. Am I right on my assessment on a real central here (just to help me gain confidence in identifying)? So, seems like going to 7 was the right move. Should I stay or go higher? I think I can feel those flow limitations, I can almost sense my airway is too small when I'm laying awake. The one bummer is the machine/leaking was louder than normal last night and my DH had to go sleep in the other room at about 4:00 am. They woke me up to. But, I think I can fix some leaking tonight. Oh and I almost forgot, I do feel a bit tired today. I think it was because I was awoken from the leaking and I also had a few beers last night. I've really cut back on alcohol since starting CPAP, but we did go to a little shin dig last night and I indulged. So that might be a part of it. Tonight's results will probably be more telling.

Ok, thank you for taking a look at my graphs and letting me know my next move!

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zonker
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Re: New User's First Post, Sleepy in GV's therapy thread

Post by zonker » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:42 pm

if it were me, i'd leave it as is for another few nights. after all, you admitted to "trashing" it with the beers! :lol: i have the same problem, but for me, it's wine, rather than beer.

and that prolly accounts for the headache, too.

oh, and i wasn't quite clear on the leaks...did you say they DID wake you up?

let's see what the others have to say....
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Sleepy in GV
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Re: New User's First Post, Sleepy in GV's therapy thread

Post by Sleepy in GV » Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:34 pm

zonker wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:42 pm

and that prolly accounts for the headache, too.

oh, and i wasn't quite clear on the leaks...did you say they DID wake you up?

let's see what the others have to say....
Let's see if I did the quote feature correctly this time...

Well, the headaches were not today, they occurred on many of the previous days when I hadn't consumed any alcohol. Speaking of alcohol, I've been trying to have good sleep hygiene (I think that is what it is called). Regular bedtime, no alcohol, and daily exercise. I was a daily cocktail drinker after work sort of a thing. So no longer consuming was a big change for me. I really wanted to try to get good sleep and start feeling like I'm not exhausted all the time. I thought being tired was normal since I was getting older, my Dr. said no way, I wasn't 80 yet! That was a surprise, he more or less said it WAS NOT NORMAL to be feeling so run down. Anyway, thought I better go all in, and I read about that good sleep hygiene and thought I better change some things in my life.

Now, about the leaks, yes, they did wake me up. Not all, but definitely some. The high pitched squeel as they escape the mask is what I hear. I think I can make it less noisy tonight. I do wear earplugs too.

Thank you Zonker :D !

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Sleepy in GV
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Re: New User's First Post, Sleepy in GV's therapy thread

Post by Sleepy in GV » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:20 pm

Last night's Sleepyhead data looks like I'm definitely moving in the right direction. Significantly less SWJ and only one OA. I will continue to leave as is for now unless anyone advises otherwise. Should I be trying to get the Flow Limits further diminished? What about snores, is that a reasonable amount or am I still trying to eliminate them altogether?

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Re: New User's First Post, Sleepy in GV's therapy thread

Post by zonker » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:14 pm

Sleepy in GV wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:20 pm
Last night's Sleepyhead data looks like I'm definitely moving in the right direction. Significantly less SWJ and only one OA. I will continue to leave as is for now unless anyone advises otherwise. Should I be trying to get the Flow Limits further diminished? What about snores, is that a reasonable amount or am I still trying to eliminate them altogether?
jeez, i wish i had more knowledge to share with you! :lol: but as far as i can see, you are certainly going in the right direction. i take it you are continuing to sleep well?

i don't know enough to comment on flow limits or the snores. hopefully, someone will pipe up soon.

keep up the good work!
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Re: New User's First Post, Sleepy in GV's therapy thread

Post by Pugsy » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:28 pm

Sleeping decently and feeling decent with these new changes?
If so...I would give things some time to see if this hold consistently enough to be a well established trend.

How we sleep and feel is just as important (if not more so) as nice low numbers and pretty graphs.
Nice low numbers and pretty graphs don't mean much if we sleep and feel like crap.

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Re: New User's First Post, Sleepy in GV's therapy thread

Post by palerider » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:29 pm

Sleepy in GV wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:20 pm
Should I be trying to get the Flow Limits further diminished? What about snores, is that a reasonable amount or am I still trying to eliminate them altogether?
Well, generally, with FL and snores, 'less is better'.

But, at some point, there's that ol 'law of diminishing returns'... so you kinda find a balance, ... more pressure, less snores/fl, possibly less sleep disturbances... but, (maybe) more discomfort... etc.

So, I'd say, yeah, keep working on eliminating the FL and snores, until you decide 'it's good enough' or 'I'm not liking the pressure this high'.... etc.

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Re: New User's First Post, Sleepy in GV's therapy thread

Post by Sleepy in GV » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:17 pm

zonker wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:14 pm
Sleepy in GV wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:20 pm
Last night's Sleepyhead data looks like I'm definitely moving in the right direction. Significantly less SWJ and only one OA. I will continue to leave as is for now unless anyone advises otherwise. Should I be trying to get the Flow Limits further diminished? What about snores, is that a reasonable amount or am I still trying to eliminate them altogether?
jeez, i wish i had more knowledge to share with you! :lol: but as far as i can see, you are certainly going in the right direction. i take it you are continuing to sleep well?

i don't know enough to comment on flow limits or the snores. hopefully, someone will pipe up soon.

keep up the good work!
Yes, last night I slept very well. I have no conscious memory of waking. THAT hasn’t happened in forever. So even though it wasn’t my lowest ahi, it was probably a really good night of sleep. I’m so glad I finally posted and raised my number. In hindsight, I should not have waited so long to make adjustments and post to the group. Live and learn :wink: !

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Sleepy in GV
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Re: New User's First Post, Sleepy in GV's therapy thread

Post by Sleepy in GV » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:24 pm

palerider wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:29 pm
Sleepy in GV wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:20 pm
Should I be trying to get the Flow Limits further diminished? What about snores, is that a reasonable amount or am I still trying to eliminate them altogether?
Well, generally, with FL and snores, 'less is better'.

But, at some point, there's that ol 'law of diminishing returns'... so you kinda find a balance, ... more pressure, less snores/fl, possibly less sleep disturbances... but, (maybe) more discomfort... etc.

So, I'd say, yeah, keep working on eliminating the FL and snores, until you decide 'it's good enough' or 'I'm not liking the pressure this high'.... etc.
Ok, so my sleep disturbance balance is on the right path. Definitely two nights of less awakenings. Yesterday day I just couldn’t even believe how good I felt. Today, I still feel good, but not quite like yesterday :). I did though sleep very very well last night. I’m going to stay steady at this flow and maybe raise up .5 in a week or so until I find that point of diminishing returns. I figure it is kind of like cutting your hair too short, it is only temporary and it will grow back. If I raise lower number too much, I can easily reverse it. I’d like to try to eliminate them a little more.

Thank you!

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