"We still don't know what sleep apnea is."--Dr. Barbara Phillips.

[jnk...]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ4ZN7mbzgI

And on a related note, she indicates how the lack of an accepted consistent definition for hypopnea is a reason that sleep apnea research doesn't yet really mean diddly:

https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/pdf/10. ... 803-0467LE

What think ye?

[Okie bipap]

I'm glad she isn't my doctor. How do you prove the benefits of treatment? You would need two large control groups, both of which have sleep apnea, then have one group be treated, and the other group not be treated. Then, observe each group for many years. I would not want to be in the group that wasn't treated.

[ChicagoGranny]

I'm glad she isn't my doctor.

She's a professor. She would be useless as a doctor.

[D.H.]

She's exaggerating to attract attention. Despite that the techniques and measurements are flawed, Sleep Apnea is diagnosed and treated successfully every day. If anything, I would say there are more false negatives than false positives.

[Arlene1963]

I think that this is very interesting and thanks for posting the links, JNK.
This field of medicine is still very much in its infancy I believe and there needs to be some significant improvements in figuring out who to treat and who not to treat.
It is very obvious that there are folks who respond incredibly well to XPAP and others for whom it really seems to make not a jot of difference, despite excellent AHI numbers with treatment. So how then does one determine if a person should continue or not?

Yes we need to improve the status quo. It is refreshing to hear a doctor admit that the current diagnostic criteria used are often overly simplistic and that it is virtually impossible to conduct research with various differing definitions being used.

[TheDuke]

My personal experience is that despite "fuzzy" definitions of what constitutes sleep apnea, I was diagnosed by a then medical professor at Washington University, put on a very basic CPAP and was greatly helped by that treatment. My diagnosis was made in the late 1980's when CPAP treatment was in its infancy-it was developed under the leadership of an Australian doctor around 1983. I can't demonstrate whether it has prolonged my life, but I am now 88+ with generally good health. Multiple thanks to Dr. Colin Sullivan for CPaP and to Dr. Devin Zimmer for initiating my treatment more than 30 years ago!!

TheDuke

[Grace~~~]

My personal experience is that despite "fuzzy" definitions of what constitutes sleep apnea, I was diagnosed by a then medical professor at Washington University, put on a very basic CPAP and was greatly helped by that treatment. My diagnosis was made in the late 1980's when CPAP treatment was in its infancy-it was developed under the leadership of an Australian doctor around 1983. I can't demonstrate whether it has prolonged my life, but I am now 88+ with generally good health. Multiple thanks to Dr. Colin Sullivan for CPaP and to Dr. Devin Zimmer for initiating my treatment more than 30 years ago!!

TheDuke

Thanks so much for sharing this post TheDuke ~~~

It really made me smile!


There's nothing I hope for more than to one day be 88+ and be in generally good health and thankful for the medical treatment I got more than 40 years before (which would be *now* in my timeline).

This is my new self talk with regard to "visions of the future"2058!

[jnk...]

How do you prove the benefits of treatment?

Response to treatment.

[jnk...]

was greatly helped by that treatment.

And that's proof enough for me.

[jnk...]

useless as a doctor.

I first heard of her based on Rested Gal's high opinion of her: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59325&p=557642#p557642

I think her bio speaks for itself: http://neurosciencecme.com/cmea_popup_f ... asp?ID=229

[chunkyfrog]

I am reminded of the phrase, "Publish or perish".
Too bad that "print" is used so extensively to establish status among researchers;
One would think that academia could have matured some in the last several decades.
Just as well be a bowl of macadamias.

[palerider]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ4ZN7mbzgI

And on a related note, she indicates how the lack of an accepted consistent definition for hypopnea is a reason that sleep apnea research doesn't yet really mean diddly:

https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/pdf/10. ... 803-0467LE

What think ye?

The [AHI] is a simplistic, over used, not very replicable measure that doesn't predict much of anything. So when you try to identify people, we'll just say that everybody with an [AHI] of over 15 has sleep apnea, in that group, you're getting people who don't have sleep apnea

Couldn't agree more, especially the first part.

I've been saying much the same for a while now... "there's more to bad breathing than just the AHI."

[palerider]

I would not want to be in the group that wasn't treated.

That's the people that refuse to use cpap anyway

[Pugsy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ4ZN7mbzgI

And on a related note, she indicates how the lack of an accepted consistent definition for hypopnea is a reason that sleep apnea research doesn't yet really mean diddly:

https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/pdf/10. ... 803-0467LE

What think ye?

The [AHI] is a simplistic, over used, not very replicable measure that doesn't predict much of anything. So when you try to identify people, we'll just say that everybody with an [AHI] of over 15 has sleep apnea, in that group, you're getting people who don't have sleep apnea

Couldn't agree more, especially the first part.

I've been saying much the same for a while now... "there's more to bad breathing than just the AHI."

Add me to the agreeing list.
When I had my diagnostic sleep study my non REM AHI was 12....not horribly horrible...BUT....my O2 went to 73% and that was without even going to REM where my AHI was like over 50 per hour.
Going by the 12 AHI...doesn't sound all that alarming....going by the 73%....pretty scary and the guy told me the next morning when I woke up with no mask, and disappointed, because I didn't meet criteria for a split study until too late to get it done...."oh, you will be back for the titration" "your Oxygen levels of 73 % earned you that trip for sure."

[Hang Fire]

After having used four highly recommended sleep docs in high-income zip codes of major urban areas, I don't trust any of them. The only people I trust are the ones developing machines and masks. They have made great progress since I started treatment many years ago.

Also, kudos to the guy who produced Sleepyhead and the sponsors and members of this forum.